EPTThe Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 254
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
|
Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
| ||
|
-KarakStarcraft-
United States258 Posts
Karak vs vilePsY on Daybreak LE Karak vs AAE on Daybreak LE In the game vs. Psy is it just a multi-tasking, follow-up macro thing? He and I chatted afterwards, and he noted he was surprised I kept making mutas and wishes he wouldn't have made so many hydras. I kept making mutas because he hadn't taken a 3rd and I saw hydras, so I knew he couldn't afford many infestors. BUT this delayed my roach transition. Should I have just gone for the win with muta/ling/bling? In the second game, is it just my decision-making following the opening? This game was very frustrating to me, but maybe it was just late night sleepiness getting in the way? His roach/hydra comp was very hard to deal with, but I feel liek I was close to breaking him a few times. Obviously attacking into the spines with ultra is awful, but I feel like it was over at that point. Thanks, Karak | ||
|
Guamshin
Netherlands295 Posts
Diamond Zerg here. Had this ZvP, would like to know the reason why i lost since i feel like i did the right thing. Basicly: He FFE'd but tried to cannon rush, i made too many lings but i got the whole map still. He goes for phoenix and after a while he tries to expand, i make ling roach hydra plus upgrades and start attacking at his third, battle took long but didnt go too well, eventually he had too many collosus, he secured his third and basicly won the game there i felt like. Only high level zerg advice please. Also any positive comments would be nice. http://drop.sc/174407 | ||
|
Levernz
Canada50 Posts
| ||
|
Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On May 10 2012 00:59 Guamshin wrote: Please answer my post somebody........... Diamond Zerg here. Had this ZvP, would like to know the reason why i lost since i feel like i did the right thing. Basicly: He FFE'd but tried to cannon rush, i made too many lings but i got the whole map still. He goes for phoenix and after a while he tries to expand, i make ling roach hydra plus upgrades and start attacking at his third, battle took long but didnt go too well, eventually he had too many collosus, he secured his third and basicly won the game there i felt like. Only high level zerg advice please. Also any positive comments would be nice. http://drop.sc/174407 mid-masters on EU so take it with a grain of salt if you're looking for high level advise. 12 lings was a bit too much, yes, maybe 4, 6 max. But you did a good job scouting the cannon going down and the toss lost alot to that. Your roach warren/evo went down way way late. Hydras is a good response to going air (although it can be held with pure queen/spore/drone) but you need some form of creep spread for it, you were playing on Ohana so get some lings/roaches to knock down the rocks asap, you lost a lot of hydras moving inbetween bases. You overproduced hydras but they're useful until they switch to colossus, however you can't attack with them unless you're guaranteed to win the battle, since you can't retreat. A smart choice would've been to simply take your fourth when you saw his (very late) third go down, and throw down your infestor pit / tech to hive, and play a standard ZvP from there. I feel the main reason you lost was the botched attack, 17 hydras in response to a 1 stargate pressure is overkill, especially if you're going to build spores as well. You macrod well for the early stages, but missed some injects as you were attacking. tl;dr: Don't overreact to air, don't try to deny a toss third if he takes it late; just take your fourth, don't attack with hydras unless it's some kind of timing attack or you attack on creep. On May 10 2012 01:58 Levernz wrote: I think your error was making Hydras, you should of scouted his main base with one extra overlord and after seeing that he was going robo bay or 2 robo (sorry i didn't watch your replay i am at work) Once you scouted his main base you should determine by yourself if you should get anti-air after busting is third. And stay only on roach lings i think hydras are a bit over pricy when it comes to a mid-late game battle. Correct me if i am wrong. Most people go queen/spore, yes. But hydra isn't a horrible decision if there's no colossus coming. | ||
|
hubschrauber
Germany25 Posts
I spread my overlords and I see the drops coming and everything, it's just my mechanics can't keep up with the stress. I sometimes just put down like 5 spines at each base and that kinda works mid-game, but the problem I'm having vs. drops is that I lose map-control, get somewhat contained and can't deny any terran expansions. My question is: What are the most important things I have to watch out for / do vs. terran drop play when I'm going ling/infestor? I hope this question is not too vague. Thanks in advance for your help!  | ||
|
AGIANTSMURF
United States1232 Posts
On May 10 2012 06:52 hubschrauber wrote: Hey, I'm a mid-high platinum Zerg and I consider ZvT to be my best matchup at the moment. However, when I have to play against drops I just get torn apart, unless I go mutalisks. I spread my overlords and I see the drops coming and everything, it's just my mechanics can't keep up with the stress. I sometimes just put down like 5 spines at each base and that kinda works mid-game, but the problem I'm having vs. drops is that I lose map-control, get somewhat contained and can't deny any terran expansions. My question is: What are the most important things I have to watch out for / do vs. terran drop play when I'm going ling/infestor? I hope this question is not too vague. Thanks in advance for your help! you kinda said it yourself. if you want to defend drops effectively, your gonna need the mechanics to do so. Overlord spread is indeed crucial. Outside of that its just a matter of sending the appropriate number of units to defend each drop. Make sure you fungal medivacs so they cant get away and kill them with queens/infested terran. If your defending drops all day then obviously your not going to have map control. Thats just the nature of a dropping terran, they do so to take map control from you. The better/faster and more effeciently you defend drops, the less map control you will lose and you will be able to punish the terran if he plays too greadily with his expansions. | ||
|
hubschrauber
Germany25 Posts
Is there a "magic number of spines" I can put up at each base to be able to defend cost-efficiently or deny drops all-together? Or is it better to defend with units in general? Sorry, if these questions sound a bit dumb, but I'm trying to get this right and not cheat my way out of it by going mutas for example like I used to and then not being able to defend if I don't have mutas. I appreciate your help, thanks! | ||
|
envisioN .
United States552 Posts
On May 09 2012 13:36 Rinny wrote: @envisioN ive never seen a protoss just abort the 6gate, can you provide a replay? if they try to take a 3rd then you should be able to get get aggressive with the units you've made, either performing an all in, or doing pressure while taking a 3rd and droning I haven't saved any that this situation happens but I'll post if it happens again. Pressuring with the units sounds like a good idea | ||
|
-KarakStarcraft-
United States258 Posts
On May 10 2012 10:30 hubschrauber wrote: Thank you so much for your reply! Is there a "magic number of spines" I can put up at each base to be able to defend cost-efficiently or deny drops all-together? Or is it better to defend with units in general? Sorry, if these questions sound a bit dumb, but I'm trying to get this right and not cheat my way out of it by going mutas for example like I used to and then not being able to defend if I don't have mutas. I appreciate your help, thanks! It depends on how late the game is, how many drones you have, how much money you have and the map. I typically leave 3-5 spines in strategic spots to deny drops. Sometimes you can deny drops and other times you are just buying time. Other times I simply can't afford to spend 3-5 drones and 300-500 minerals to defend drops and just need to rely on my reaction time to defend the drops. If you can't defend a drop, be prepared to get your drones out and abandon the base ASAP. Honestly the most important thing about dealing with drops when going infestor/ling is to have good overlord spread and map presence. And you need to be staring at the minimap and aware of any blobs moving on it every possible second you can. Have not only OLs spotting for drops, but lings patrolling or standing in likely locations on the maps to spot drops. Thankfully this can double as denying/checking on expos as well. Just like turrets buy time for a T to get his marines back and fend off mutas, spines can often just be used to buy time. 3/3 marines will focus one down pretty quick. However, if it's a map with only one logical drop location and you position 3 spines and a spore or something, you can sometimes deny the drop altogether. Burrow is also a nice tool to have when a drop comes down. Just burrow your drones. If anything, they have to waste a scan. It is also important to have your army split up on hotkeys OR do this quickly while defending the drops. A great T is going to drop your main, your outermost expo and then push up the middle of the map at the same time. Having 2 "drop squads" of lings prehotkeyed can make your life a lot easier. Also this is a time when missing injects (don't do this on purpose, but it'll happen) can help you out. Transfuse those spines. The only place I might go nuts with enough spines to really absolutely deny a drop is in my main in a very late game situation where I have the money. IF you are way ahead, have many bases on your opponent and just are waiting to finish him off, losing your tech and then not being able to remax can sometimes be the only way to lose. Plan your main base sim city out at the beginning of the game (building buildings away from logical drop points and clustered together to allow for more effective defense) in order to defend properly. | ||
|
CDR
Poland84 Posts
| ||
|
FluXen
Canada210 Posts
| ||
|
BlueKatz
68 Posts
| ||
|
SirPsychoMantis
United States180 Posts
On May 07 2012 15:46 Macpo wrote: Send 4/5 drones to kill the engineering bay. It is ok to delay a bit your mining, because by making an enginering bay, he also delayed his build. Make sure some drone is targetting the scv, so that it stops building the EB. throw down a pool at the same time. when enginnering bay is killed, send back your drones to mine and make your hatch. Then proceed as normal for the rest of the game. I would also like to know if this is the proper response and if other people deal with ebay block in different ways? | ||
|
sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
On May 11 2012 00:05 FluXen wrote: Are there any good strategies for ZvP, i cant beat any toss anymore. They are just too strong. Is the max roach rush the only possible answer for the mu now? ZvP has been evolving a bit since P started perfecting their 2 and 3 base pushes. Stephano's Roach/ling build along with transition to infestor/spine-wall if P transitions to a third base well. There's also YuGiOh's 2 base infestor build that opens into a rather quick third. There's also leenock's bane/ling all-in. | ||
|
HyperionDreamer
Canada1528 Posts
When we were initially talking all of his arguments sounded ridiculously dumb (they still do), but I'm going to describe what he was suggesting here and ask if you think this is even moderately viable except as something to do when you are way behind and need to come back. Here's a diagram of what happens when zerg takes the normal third base on close positions - this is what happened in the game. Terran bases are red zerg bases are green. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6nlCH.jpg) Basically once terran gets 3 bases and sieges a bunch of tanks in the middle of the map I feel pretty much like I've lost the game. Tanks in the middle let terran just move groups of 8-10 marines around the entire map to attack your expansions and the paths to defend them with lings are actually longer than the paths to attack (see blistering sands as an example of why this is bad), plus tanks cover a lot of the areas where those marines can move. It's even worse on close positions when terran puts a planetary at the gold and has shorter-than-steppes-of-war distance to attack all your bases, and endlessly pushes with tanks. This is basically what the guy suggested: Instead of taking the normal third, double expand to the 2 other naturals that are on the map at 5 o clock and 7 o clock, and then the decision making tree looks like this: If terran moves out with a fraction of his army to attack your bases, go crush his army and try to hold the bases. If terran moves out with the whole of his army, you won't be able to kill it, so just counterattack to deny his third and force him to come back or lose the game since you're basically right in his natural. So then he gets one of the bases but you have another third hatch that has no drones mining it. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WjlBP.jpg) I thought this was kind of stupid, since if terran just siege pushes your natural/main then you've invested all this money into 2 hidden expansions and you won't be able to kill his army so you just lose the game. Does this tactic working rely on sort of metagaming your opponent, like he scans your typical third base and doesn't see anything, so he thinks you're going for like some kind of timing or allin, so then he doesn't attack you, and that lets you make the rounds of drones and send them over to the hidden bases to compensate for the fact that they're so far away? Basically what bothers me about this map is that I feel like I need to rely on gimmicky crap to win against terran, especially on close positions.... Even on cross position only versions ZvT is really hard, once tanks get to the middle of the map then it feels like your entire army can't move around the map without an expansion gonig down. Should you take the 9 o clock as your third base in those spawn positions instead of the 1 o clock, which is the normal third base? I was thinking of this as just a watered down version of the double hidden expands that this terran was telling me to take, but it seems to fail to the same logic. The middle of the map is far too easy to hold for terran with tanks, and once he gets into the middle, good luck defending the 9 o clock while defending drops at your natural while tanks are picking off your units trying to run down to the 9 o clock to save it from a mini group of marines. I almost feel like the 170 food ling/speed bane/muta +1 melee timing attack that hits right when terran tries to take a third on this map is the best way to play it. I feel like you 100% need the mutas to defend your bases from little hit squads, since infestors are too slow and won't help you control the middle at all, while mutas can pick off tanks and generally be hella annoying. Thoughts? | ||
|
OneObsession
Germany42 Posts
| ||
|
Levernz
Canada50 Posts
| ||
|
Frunkis
United States146 Posts
| ||
|
Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
antiga shipyard is terran favored. there's no ifs ands or buts about it. unless the terran severely screws up, if they take the middle with a siege line, and you're not 1.5-2 bases up and with hive tech, you should always lose. | ||
| ||
