The Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 19
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
dave333
United States915 Posts
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Euriti
Denmark72 Posts
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dave333
United States915 Posts
I feel like a noob but I've been having some trouble with fast 6 pool+crawler when I don't 10 pool. The crawlers are a serious issue. | ||
Euriti
Denmark72 Posts
Replays of each situation: http://starcraft2reps.com/index.php?a=details&id=1974 - Thor Rush http://starcraft2reps.com/index.php?a=details&id=1975 - 6 pool crawler rush | ||
Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
On September 25 2010 17:33 Eazypeezy wrote: Hello Saracen, Iv'e been using a similar build all along to defend 4 gates. slings + spines and maybe some roaches seems to be working just fine for me. My question is this. Im on Blistering sands, I have used the above build so im sitting on 2 bases and ive got a decent # of drones + 2 spines at my natural. The protoss player shows up at my front door and pokes in and out but dosent really engage me, instead he is forcing me to make more lings. So basically this protoss delayed his 4gate untill he got a few collosus out and crushed me. I was caught off gaurd because I didnt scout very well. The only scouting information was with my 1st sacraficial overloard around 30 supply seeeing 4gates + 1 robo and when he was poking in and out with his gateway force I managed to get a few lings to his natural and see that he had a Nexus warping in. I guess I assumed that sense he was expanding I was safe to drone up further but clearly I was wrong. Given the information I had, or say you knew "ok this guy is delaying his 4gate push until he gets a few collosus and hes expanding. What would you have done differently? EDIT: also I need to work on my multitasking, I had a spire up with some mutas but I kindof blindly teched to them and wasnt sure if it was the right choice. I think if i was smoother with my timings I coulve easily had more mutas out and maybe stopped the attack.However, im not even sure if they were the right choice. Thanks so much for your help ![]() i actually hate saracen's build. Its the dimaga-esqe build and I dont think dimaga is doing all that well zvp these days^_^. Thing is its so fragile. You think hes 4 gating but hes not? Youre behind. Bam boom good night. i think doign the other dimaga build where he rushes hydra or massing roaches like idra will yield superior results. | ||
Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
On September 25 2010 17:13 Saracen wrote: Mass lings or ling/hydra. If you're losing to mass blink stalker, it's probably more the fault of your opening than your response. Definitely put in roach. The shit in SC2 is the concave and with blink stalkers protoss keep screwing that shit up. Having roach ling and hydra(i also slam in fungal growth) allows u to have maximum burst because you dont have to worry about dps as much- even though ur units clump up you get the maximum possible burst by having units that can attack from all 3 range distances. | ||
Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
On September 26 2010 00:15 Euriti wrote: 2) ZvT Thor/Blue Flame Hellion Rushes - I end up having 6 hellions and 4-5 thors with scvs following hitting me around 11-12 minutes. Lings are useless and I cant get a critical mass of roaches in time, even with spine crawlers out. unfortunately you have to have lings to beat that. basically you have roaches that you attack with constantly and then you have lings that you attack with in waves- so tehy dont clump up. Get enough to get more or less of a surround and try to do so, then send in the next wave immidiately(first wave will die very quickly). You have to get a sense of what reinforcments to pop, usually its msotly ling and few roaches because once the critical mass of blueflames is gone its just easier to deal wtih lings. And if he keeps bringing blueflames roaches easily repel this as long as they dont sli by. Also in these situations i usually have liek 4 queens because im thinking banshee and omg they help so much with infusion and usually i target scvs with them- i dunno why but it just been working out for me to attack stuff that isnt repaired with roaches, attack scvs with queens and surround with the lingies. | ||
Izzachar
Sweden285 Posts
On September 26 2010 00:15 Euriti wrote: I have 2 major issues right now 1) ZvZ 6 pools - I get 6 pooled in about 60% of my ZvZs (diamond level) with a spine crawler or 2 put in my base and i just cant do anything against it. I scout it, throw down a 12/13 pool but the amount of lings + crawlers he gets is overwhelming I'm no pro but I think I can give some advice here. Against Z I either always get 12 pool or scout (at 8-9) so I can get a pool at 12-13 pool if he 6 pools. Make sure you save 3 larvae for lings of course. You want 4 drones on a crawler to kill it. So if there are 2 crawlers send 8 drones total 4 to each crawler. But there are lings there as well.... What will happen is that he stabs in and out with his lings to try and kill of your drones and you do not want that. Pull back the drones, keep your drones together, and try and wait for your own lings to pop or to get a nice surround with ALL your drones on the lings. Do not let him surround and pick off lone drones for free, you also naturally dont wanna let him attack your drones freely when they are attacking his spines. If he micros good with lings to keep you from attacking his crawlers wait for your own lings. Your lings should pop soon here and when they do have them attack his lings and now send the drones to kill of his spines. If it looks really nasty or if you do not feel comfortable with the micro to hold off a 6 pool I think you can put down 1 or 2 crawlers yourself as soon as you can. This will put pressure on him to deal with your crawlers and you will have the advantage of taking some free hits on his lings with your drones while waiting for your own lings. How to place these crawlers really depends where he placed his in regards to your mineral line etc. | ||
ryanAnger
United States838 Posts
Do you feel like a lot of top Zerg players try to overdrone in the early stages of the game? Recently, upon discovering Dimagas ZvP +1 Ling Build, I've realized that you can get away with having 25-30 drones spread out over two bases and still have at least equal, if not better than, economy as your 1 base opponent. Do Zerg players in general try to get out of T1 too fast? After watching a lot of Koreans, I see they have a tendency to stay on T1 and even like to get upgrades before starting Lair, working off of only 1 gas. It seems to work fairly well for them, and it's been working well for me (I'm only 1000 pts, but I keep getting matched w/ 1300-1400's). It feels a lot safer to stay on T1 and build up a sizable army to defend the push. Is it actually plausible at a higher level, or is this idea just a result of my lower level of play? | ||
Elfanger
Australia1 Post
Thanks. | ||
skindzer
Chile5114 Posts
On September 25 2010 23:58 Rahlekk wrote: When making Banelings, can you just hold E to transform them all en-mass, instead of tapping E a bunch of times? Seriously? Cant you just test this in game? | ||
sooch
Canada299 Posts
In this replay toss expands quickly following my 15 hatch. Ignoring the fact that perhaps he could have lost to mass ling off 2 hatch due to his unsafe expansion, what do you did I do wrong? I need help, in general, with economic protosses. I already shared this replay with slained, and he pointed out that I probably should have 4 gassed earlier for more mutas, pressured his rocks earlier, and delayed upgrades until I got map control. Besides that, do you (saracen + others) see anything else that could have been done differently? | ||
MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On September 26 2010 02:43 sooch wrote: All the dedicated SC2 replay sites aren't working for me, so I linked my replay here: http://www.mediafire.com/?kkda4u7oj2lkinn In this replay toss expands quickly following my 15 hatch. Ignoring the fact that perhaps he could have lost to mass ling off 2 hatch due to his unsafe expansion, what do you did I do wrong? I need help, in general, with economic protosses. I already shared this replay with slained, and he pointed out that I probably should have 4 gassed earlier for more mutas, pressured his rocks earlier, and delayed upgrades until I got map control. Besides that, do you (saracen + others) see anything else that could have been done differently? I feel like muta is the hands down best way to punish a Toss for expanding too early. Lings are great for defending, but if you take 30+ of them and try to break down the Toss front, you really need him to make a mistake (ie: letting them get up his ramp) for that trade to be worthwhile. Muta, on the other hand, can be safely massed after Toss FEs (he's not going to have the units to pressure you) and can then harass really well by bouncing back and forth between expos, picking off probes and stray tech structures. Even if you do minimal economic damage, Toss is going to have to spend so much on defenses, that you're going to be ahead anyway. Remember, you still want to squeeze in a third, but after that, if you spend all your gas on mutas, and the rest of your excess minerals on lings, you should be able to handle toss pretty easily once he decides its time to leave his base. | ||
dave333
United States915 Posts
I feel like rushing roach and grabbing an expand is the most economical thing, and then grabbing lair tech. The trouble is scouting can be so hard ZvZ when lings are covering ramps, the only thing I can think of is sending lots more ovies over to see what is going on. It's just ugh right now, it's hard to scout, that's the real issue. | ||
sooch
Canada299 Posts
On September 26 2010 02:51 MrBitter wrote: I feel like muta is the hands down best way to punish a Toss for expanding too early. Lings are great for defending, but if you take 30+ of them and try to break down the Toss front, you really need him to make a mistake (ie: letting them get up his ramp) for that trade to be worthwhile. Muta, on the other hand, can be safely massed after Toss FEs (he's not going to have the units to pressure you) and can then harass really well by bouncing back and forth between expos, picking off probes and stray tech structures. Even if you do minimal economic damage, Toss is going to have to spend so much on defenses, that you're going to be ahead anyway. Remember, you still want to squeeze in a third, but after that, if you spend all your gas on mutas, and the rest of your excess minerals on lings, you should be able to handle toss pretty easily once he decides its time to leave his base. Did you watch the replay? D: | ||
MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
Not initially... But I just did, just for you. =D The first, and biggest thing that jumps out at me is pretty poor scouting. You didn't make any real effort in the first 6 minutes of the game to scout HIM with lings. As a result of this, you didn't know he had fast expanded until after you blindly dropped your roach warren. You have to, have to, have to scout constantly. Especially as a Zerg player. Had you seen his FE around the time that he planted it, you'd have been able to do several things differently: 1.) Get gas sooner. Your gas was soo late. Your first gas, and your next three were all very heavily delayed. 2.) Start your lair sooner. If I see a toss FE, I'll often delay speed in favor of a faster lair. 3.) Have mutas faster, and in greater numbers from the extra gas. Another thing to note: If you're going to go muta, GO muta. If you're going to go roach, GO roach. You went spire, +1 attack, +1 carapace, and roach speed. That's 550 gas going down two seperate tech paths, very early in the game. (Not to mention you never built any roaches) As a result of this, when you guys fought, you had 7 mutas (too few) and 33 lings (could have done a little better here too) against his 11 zealots, 11 stalkers, and 5 sentries. If you cut out some of the indecision, and truly commit one way or another, I think you could realistically have 10-11 mutas and about 50 lings for that fight, in which case, I think you'd clean it up no problem. One last small, but important thing: You supply blocked yourself right before you guys fought, and had 7 unused larvae. This is nitpicking a bit, but 14 more lings would have certainly helped. | ||
GreyTemplar
22 Posts
I cant remember it exactly as i never wrote it down and its in my head on timings 13extractor, 12pool drone to 15 15 OL 18 Lair 18 Extractor and timings are off from there (again no replays as i am at work) but i drop my queen after the lair finishes and a spire immediatly as well, or a hydra den if its a ZvP match up. Been trying to find a way to refine this and speed it up if possible. I usually drop a hatch on my nat while the lair is constructing or my spire based on timing of my minerals. I've tried this a few times and worked really well in a couple of ZvTs where i dropped an infestor pit after my expo went down and teched to GSpire and BLs. | ||
sooch
Canada299 Posts
On September 26 2010 04:47 MrBitter wrote: Not initially... But I just did, just for you. =D The first, and biggest thing that jumps out at me is pretty poor scouting. You didn't make any real effort in the first 6 minutes of the game to scout HIM with lings. As a result of this, you didn't know he had fast expanded until after you blindly dropped your roach warren. You have to, have to, have to scout constantly. Especially as a Zerg player. Had you seen his FE around the time that he planted it, you'd have been able to do several things differently: 1.) Get gas sooner. Your gas was soo late. Your first gas, and your next three were all very heavily delayed. 2.) Start your lair sooner. If I see a toss FE, I'll often delay speed in favor of a faster lair. 3.) Have mutas faster, and in greater numbers from the extra gas. Another thing to note: If you're going to go muta, GO muta. If you're going to go roach, GO roach. You went spire, +1 attack, +1 carapace, and roach speed. That's 550 gas going down two seperate tech paths, very early in the game. (Not to mention you never built any roaches) As a result of this, when you guys fought, you had 7 mutas (too few) and 33 lings (could have done a little better here too) against his 11 zealots, 11 stalkers, and 5 sentries. If you cut out some of the indecision, and truly commit one way or another, I think you could realistically have 10-11 mutas and about 50 lings for that fight, in which case, I think you'd clean it up no problem. One last small, but important thing: You supply blocked yourself right before you guys fought, and had 7 unused larvae. This is nitpicking a bit, but 14 more lings would have certainly helped. Yeah I played an identical game vs another fast expanding player and did all of those things and came out on top. Roach warren was definitely a mistake, as was getting the upgrade. My OL was poorly positioned to sight his expo as it was going up. Something I disagree with, though was that you should rush lair vs a toss going FE. I think it's important to not get too antsy with the gas and ensure that your mineral economy is decent... Delaying ling speed is also scary, because if they come at you with a surprise push, your primary defenses are going to be spinecrawlers and panic lings. If you don't have ling speed, you kind of die from my experience. PS thanks for watching the replay btw, I could tell you didn't because your comments were super generic stuff that I would probably tell someone asking the same question as I was lol. | ||
krayon
1 Post
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syrianrue
United States56 Posts
if i go 14 hatch, 13 pool, how do I defend from an early attack or cheese? and what if the opponent doesn't fast expand like me, what if he just one base and start making t1 attack units early while i spend time 300 minerals on a new hatch, then get new queen, as well as all the drones required to saturate the 2 bases? Question 2: which maps are good to fast expand (14 hatch, 13 pool) on? and which maps are better for (14 gas/14 pool?) Question 3: what are some good tech transitions for: vs terran vs protoss vs zerg | ||
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