|
Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On September 25 2010 05:38 Sixes wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 05:26 Sfydjklm wrote:wtf am i supposed to do against protoss 200/200? it seems liek the ultra nerf really dented zergs ability(that was limited even before the nerf) to counter protoss late game. wait nevermind dont answer that. Just remembered the Hasuobs vs Dimaga game back when roach was still 1 supply. So, die?  The solution very much depends on the 200/200 in question but it's a problem in any case. If he is going stalker colossus ultras still do good damage, just watch out for the immortals. Really stalkers only have 2 solutions I have found late game, lings or ultras (they blink takes care of broodlords, mutas or hydras can do ok if you have him outmacroed and there are no colossi/phoenixes). Infestors can't even keep them from blinking so that isn't an option. So, ultras ... yep, I think that's the best we have. Not a perfect answer but I don't think there is one. Burrow play is out due to observers (in the mid game if you don't see a robo, burrowed roaches are surprisingly good against stalkers) as is any reliance on creep. Mass hydra roach melts to even a few colossi ... really mass lings and ultras are the only things I see, the lings can help take shots from stalkers and get the ultras in, once the ultras hit they still do damage. As one of the pros stated if a protoss has you outmacroed at any point you lose. If not, throw ultras at him until he dies (and be ready for a quick tech switch to mutas if he get too many zealots/immortals/colossi).
im all for throwing ultras at people but the issue is that ultras take about 20 warpgate cycles to morph so there is no way for me to go in 200 against 200 and not lose a couple of expos on the counter.
|
On September 25 2010 06:04 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 05:38 Sixes wrote:On September 25 2010 05:26 Sfydjklm wrote:wtf am i supposed to do against protoss 200/200? it seems liek the ultra nerf really dented zergs ability(that was limited even before the nerf) to counter protoss late game. wait nevermind dont answer that. Just remembered the Hasuobs vs Dimaga game back when roach was still 1 supply. So, die? The solution very much depends on the 200/200 in question but it's a problem in any case. If he is going stalker colossus ultras still do good damage, just watch out for the immortals. Really stalkers only have 2 solutions I have found late game, lings or ultras (they blink takes care of broodlords, mutas or hydras can do ok if you have him outmacroed and there are no colossi/phoenixes). Infestors can't even keep them from blinking so that isn't an option. So, ultras ... yep, I think that's the best we have. Not a perfect answer but I don't think there is one. Burrow play is out due to observers (in the mid game if you don't see a robo, burrowed roaches are surprisingly good against stalkers) as is any reliance on creep. Mass hydra roach melts to even a few colossi ... really mass lings and ultras are the only things I see, the lings can help take shots from stalkers and get the ultras in, once the ultras hit they still do damage. As one of the pros stated if a protoss has you outmacroed at any point you lose. If not, throw ultras at him until he dies (and be ready for a quick tech switch to mutas if he get too many zealots/immortals/colossi). im all for throwing ultras at people but the issue is that ultras take about 20 warpgate cycles to morph so there is no way for me to go in 200 against 200 and not lose a couple of expos on the counter.
Agreed, I told you the best I had. Really I just don't let them get there if at all possible :/ Protoss late game is just insanely hard. Ask Blizzard, maybe they have a solution to mass stalker for zerg lol.
|
On September 25 2010 06:04 Sfydjklm wrote:
[im all for throwing ultras at people but the issue is that ultras take about 20 warpgate cycles to morph so there is no way for me to go in 200 against 200 and not lose a couple of expos on the counter.
This is really important for me too, all games ive used ultras on late game ive lost(not too much tough cause with all the 4warpgate toss out there late game is really rare in the MU). I find it better to just keep going with hydra/roach adding corruptors according to his collosi numbers and getting lots and lots of creep in all the map. MAAAAYBE mutas for ht sniping but i feel on late game it gets really hard to do properly.
I get the hive only for the upgrades and the ocassional Broodlords (specially on LT).
|
Okay, I just skimmed through some of this thread, and there's a LOT of bad advice going around. If you don't know what you're talking about, PLEASE refrain from giving advice. I originally intended this thread to be "known" Zerg players or at least Zerg players who do well in tournaments or that are at the top of the ladder giving advice. If you aren't quite as good but would still like to help out, that's perfectly fine, as long as you know what you're talking about. But, "well, this is the way things work at my 1300 diamond level" doesn't really ensure that you know what you're talking about. To put things into perspective, I've beaten 1000-1300 diamond players with a 2 ultra plus mass queen strategy before. There are a lot of things that are perfectly viable at that level. In the end, it's not about points. It's about knowledge and experience. If you have good advice, I'm not trying to discourage you from posting. But if you don't know what constitutes good advice, then I'd like you to think twice before giving it.
EDIT: ALSO, IF YOU DIDN'T GET YOUR QUESTION ANSWERED, ASK IT AGAIN AND I WILL DO MY BEST TO ANSWER IT.
|
United States4 Posts
I've been having trouble of playing a lot, actually only zerg in the plat league. Each zerg only goes 1base mass mutas/ling, actually only mass mutas. I've been only been able to detect this if they have 4 spinecrawlers as their static defense. I still lose 24/7 to this. Any proper way to counter this?
|
On September 25 2010 07:59 Failhulk wrote:
I've been having trouble of playing a lot, actually only zerg in the plat league. Each zerg only goes 1base mass mutas/ling, actually only mass mutas. I've been only been able to detect this if they have 4 spinecrawlers as their static defense. I still lose 24/7 to this. Any proper way to counter this?
Can you describe how the games go? How do you open and how does he open? What happens throughout the game that leads to the one base "mass" muta?
|
United States4 Posts
I open with the 10/10 extractor trick and my opponent does not do the same. I get a 13 pool, scout, and then get my extractor. My opponent does the same. I then tech to roaches and by that time he/she gets 4 spinecrawlers and instantly I know they are going to go to mutas. I either go hydras or mutas as well, but because I tech'ed into roaches I am somewhat behind. I do make a few extra queens while I am waiting for my hydra den. I have about 6 hydras to his 6 mutas, but for some reason each time I lose to my hydra/queens to his mutas.
|
On September 25 2010 08:09 Failhulk wrote:
I open with the 10/10 extractor trick and my opponent does not do the same. I get a 13 pool, scout, and then get my extractor. My opponent does the same. I then tech to roaches and by that time he/she gets 4 spinecrawlers and instantly I know they are going to go to mutas. I either go hydras or mutas as well, but because I tech'ed into roaches I am somewhat behind. I do make a few extra queens while I am waiting for my hydra den. I have about 6 hydras to his 6 mutas, but for some reason each time I lose to my hydra/queens to his mutas.
6 hydras + queens easily beats an equal number of mutas with no micro required so I have no idea what you're doing wrong lol...
|
United States4 Posts
:[ I guess I just need more practice then. Thanks for the help.
|
On September 25 2010 07:57 Saracen wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Okay, I just skimmed through some of this thread, and there's a LOT of bad advice going around. If you don't know what you're talking about, PLEASE refrain from giving advice. I originally intended this thread to be "known" Zerg players or at least Zerg players who do well in tournaments or that are at the top of the ladder giving advice. If you aren't quite as good but would still like to help out, that's perfectly fine, as long as you know what you're talking about. But, "well, this is the way things work at my 1300 diamond level" doesn't really ensure that you know what you're talking about. To put things into perspective, I've beaten 1000-1300 diamond players with a 2 ultra plus mass queen strategy before. There are a lot of things that are perfectly viable at that level. In the end, it's not about points. It's about knowledge and experience. If you have good advice, I'm not trying to discourage you from posting. But if you don't know what constitutes good advice, then I'd like you to think twice before giving it.
EDIT: ALSO, IF YOU DIDN'T GET YOUR QUESTION ANSWERED, ASK IT AGAIN AND I WILL DO MY BEST TO ANSWER IT.
Noted, I'll be quieter.
Could you comment on the upgraded speedling replays I posted please? I am wondering if you think that it is a viable strategy and what can be done to improve/fine tune it.
Thanks for the feedback.
Edit: also interested in the late game vP question that was asked above.
|
Hi Saracen, I am a 900+ diamond zerg. I need help getting game sense, i mean, i want to know what my enemy is doing, because my lack of sense is making 50% of my games ending in a lose...and in some of this games i had ALL the advantage and I lose... like, I open 5RR I make some hard damage but had to retreat and he counters with something i dont expect, like VR, or as terran Banshees.... i dont know if there are special tricks, as using overlords at a certain timing... or maybe just by checking his army...
Can you give me any tip?i am specially interesting in your personal thoughts when trying to know what your enemy is doing
My problem is I know to play sc2, but my lack of sense as zerg ends in a terrible idea, i dont know how to play zerg. :S
Thanks a lot
|
On September 25 2010 08:16 Sixes wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 07:57 Saracen wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Okay, I just skimmed through some of this thread, and there's a LOT of bad advice going around. If you don't know what you're talking about, PLEASE refrain from giving advice. I originally intended this thread to be "known" Zerg players or at least Zerg players who do well in tournaments or that are at the top of the ladder giving advice. If you aren't quite as good but would still like to help out, that's perfectly fine, as long as you know what you're talking about. But, "well, this is the way things work at my 1300 diamond level" doesn't really ensure that you know what you're talking about. To put things into perspective, I've beaten 1000-1300 diamond players with a 2 ultra plus mass queen strategy before. There are a lot of things that are perfectly viable at that level. In the end, it's not about points. It's about knowledge and experience. If you have good advice, I'm not trying to discourage you from posting. But if you don't know what constitutes good advice, then I'd like you to think twice before giving it.
EDIT: ALSO, IF YOU DIDN'T GET YOUR QUESTION ANSWERED, ASK IT AGAIN AND I WILL DO MY BEST TO ANSWER IT. Noted, I'll be quieter. Could you comment on the upgraded speedling replays I posted please? I am wondering if you think that it is a viable strategy and what can be done to improve/fine tune it. Thanks for the feedback. Edit: also interested in the late game vP question that was asked above.
The disclaimer wasn't directed towards anyone in particular. Just people in general.
Although I really don't like watching replays, I watched the Blistering Sands replay just for you. I didn't really like the build, and the reason is you sacrificed a lot of droning for that fast +1 that didn't revolve around any particular timing. What if instead of doing a 1 base allin the Terran had just played normally and taken his expansion off of that reactor hellion opening? He would have been anywhere from 30 to 50 supply up in the midgame, and there would have been no way for you to come back. Such early upgrades just cut into economy too much for my taste. Also, the Terran you played had absolutely no timing sense.
I personally don't know what to do against a lategame Protoss 200/200 ball either. Their robo units are just too cost-effective versus ground in general, and when templar and archons are added for extra crowd control, or maybe void rays to thwart ultras and brood lords, I don't really see a way to compete. Generally, I try not to let the game get to that point - try to keep them on two bases at all costs. Also, it's super important to keep up with upgrades.
|
You said to repost if it wasn't answered, Saracen, so here is mine! :D Thanks in advance.
On September 25 2010 02:59 Rahlekk wrote:Show nested quote +In general, unless you're trying to one-base, you need your first expo no later than 20-23. That's the rule-of-thumb I was looking for, thanks a bunch. ^.^ Which leads to another question. Once that second base is in construction, what do you do to prep that base for saturation? Pump Drones at your main, or just get 8 ready once it pops?
|
On September 25 2010 09:16 Saracen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 08:16 Sixes wrote:On September 25 2010 07:57 Saracen wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Okay, I just skimmed through some of this thread, and there's a LOT of bad advice going around. If you don't know what you're talking about, PLEASE refrain from giving advice. I originally intended this thread to be "known" Zerg players or at least Zerg players who do well in tournaments or that are at the top of the ladder giving advice. If you aren't quite as good but would still like to help out, that's perfectly fine, as long as you know what you're talking about. But, "well, this is the way things work at my 1300 diamond level" doesn't really ensure that you know what you're talking about. To put things into perspective, I've beaten 1000-1300 diamond players with a 2 ultra plus mass queen strategy before. There are a lot of things that are perfectly viable at that level. In the end, it's not about points. It's about knowledge and experience. If you have good advice, I'm not trying to discourage you from posting. But if you don't know what constitutes good advice, then I'd like you to think twice before giving it.
EDIT: ALSO, IF YOU DIDN'T GET YOUR QUESTION ANSWERED, ASK IT AGAIN AND I WILL DO MY BEST TO ANSWER IT. Noted, I'll be quieter. Could you comment on the upgraded speedling replays I posted please? I am wondering if you think that it is a viable strategy and what can be done to improve/fine tune it. Thanks for the feedback. Edit: also interested in the late game vP question that was asked above. The disclaimer wasn't directed towards anyone in particular. Just people in general. Although I really don't like watching replays, I watched the Blistering Sands replay just for you. I didn't really like the build, and the reason is you sacrificed a lot of droning for that fast +1 that didn't revolve around any particular timing. What if instead of doing a 1 base allin the Terran had just played normally and taken his expansion off of that reactor hellion opening? He would have been anywhere from 30 to 50 supply up in the midgame, and there would have been no way for you to come back. Such early upgrades just cut into economy too much for my taste. Also, the Terran you played had absolutely no timing sense. I personally don't know what to do against a lategame Protoss 200/200 ball either. Their robo units are just too cost-effective versus ground in general, and when templar and archons are added for extra crowd control, or maybe void rays to thwart ultras and brood lords, I don't really see a way to compete. Generally, I try not to let the game get to that point - try to keep them on two bases at all costs. Also, it's super important to keep up with upgrades.
Thank you for the response. I have to watch more Idra/Madfrog/Check/Cool and get a better sense of the econ openers and where my drone count should be.
It's true that around my 1100 Diamond I am seeing 90% all ins from Terran and Protoss (and they are usually lost if the all in fails) and I am probably trying too hard to just stop those. And yes, there are a lot of Terran/Protoss with no timing sense and 1 all in build around this level as well.
|
I know that is has already been adressed very briefly, but I'd like to to revive the topic of pure T mechplay once again - if you've got no sufficient answer yet Saracen, maybe one of the other top guys has some good advice.
So here we go (put into a spoiler to make the thread more clearly arranged)
+ Show Spoiler +My personal problems stem from any mass factory build. I know lots of ladderterrans who I can beat with great certainty if they go Bio or some kind of Bio Mech, but I am completly clueless on how to handle any buid that consists only out of Hellions/Tanks/Thors.
I am especially talking about builds that go straight to Thor after their fist Hellion harasses and expand - not the ones who do a 3 Thor Scv push or some kind of Banshee play.
Even if I am able to hold the Hellion harass without greater casulties, I don't know how to follow up to use my few minutes of advantage. I've tried different approaches - maybe it's easier for you guys to just pinpoint the one that's the most promising strategy that I should try to improve.
My tries to play a Lalush-alike style with lots of upgraded burrow roaches constantly trying to trade armys has failed anytime the T stays defensive behind a line of tower and tanks ans slowly macroes up a huge army. If the heavy investment in Roaches doesn't pay off I usually die as soon as he reaches a critical mass of Tanks. Since most T react with a tank-heavier build to roaches, neural parasite infestors did not work to well either, since they get sniped so easily.
Another approach was to play Ling/Bling/Mutas, trying to blow up most of the Hellions with Blings to clean up the remaining stuff with Mutas/Lings. But against any T who attacks relativly early or just expands with me I am not able to a.) reach a critical amount of mutas that b.) have the carpace upgrades to fight +3 Thors. Againt T which I heavily outmacroed this worked kind of decently.
Very fast teching to Ultras, using only Lings/Infestor to fight was another idea I tested - but since most T's move out as soon as they see the hive tech on its way or finish, I was never really able to have the critical amount of upgraded Ultras needed to defend, if I had any at all.
I know some of the mistakes I make and maybe you have some good advice regarding those details:
1.) I often lose lots of Drones against Pre-Igniter Hellions, especially on open Maps like Xel Naga Caverns - how exactly should I fight them? Roaches before their upgrade are just outrun by them, and Speedlings get roasted into little pieces - but producing both (blocking them with Lings so the Roaches may catch up) cuts so deaply into the dronecount that I seldomly know if its worth it. Do you have certain numbers you aim for when defending against Hellions? (I spread as much as creep as possible and usually try to block some entrances of the mineralline with the 2 evo chambers)
2.) When do you take your third? I am often very hesitant to take a third because its so difficult to scout if he is going for an early Thor+Scv push, expanding, or switching to Banshee play, leading me to produce too much units just to feel save, which in turn cuts into the drone count. Maybe even some scouting advice could be helpful here.
I'd be happy about any further advice on any of those points : )
I've read your original statement, but have made really bad experiences with Broodlords, using them to hold the big push usually works out decently, but I was never able to finish him off before he had enough new Thors+Vikings to fight off the remaining Broodlords easily.
|
How do you guys deal with mass blink stalker? I seriously lose to this more than anything else in scII right now. I am kind of completely unsure how to beat it. Seems everything I try (even mass hydra) isn't working. Currently a 1300 zerg player. Please give details and or reps.
|
How, in ZvP, do you deal with the build where protoss gets an expansion, techs to a temlar + mass gateway army, and then takes a third while continuing to upgrade, pressure a bit but not commit, and then just crush you with a gateway/templar army with lots of storms, charge, blink, and upgrades. I've tried lots of stuff against it, but can't find a way to beat a good protoss player who does this, even if I gain the advantage. Hydra/roach seems to melt to mass storms and the huge number of units, and even if I secure 2 expos and the gold and get hive tech, when he mixes immortals in the mix, ultras just evaporate. Broodlords do ok, but they're really expensive, and the corrupters are useless against a protoss whose not getting colossus. What do I do against this?
|
How do you deal with storms? They just rape all my mutalisks, hydralisks, zerglings, roaches... basically everything. What am i to do before tier 3?
|
What do you build against a terran who does a timed push with about 4 hellions and 6 marauders? Also, how do you know this exact composition is coming? I always try to poke in with a ling just to see whats at the front but this push always catches me off guard and steam rolls me.
I'm also having a lot of trouble with a timed banshee attack with about 2 banshees + marines + hellions. I know the banshees are coming and I make 3 queens but the time always throws me off. Do you just make a good amount of lings to negate the ground force while the queens handle the banshees?
|
On September 25 2010 13:11 VirtuallyLost wrote:
How do you deal with storms? They just rape all my mutalisks, hydralisks, zerglings, roaches... basically everything. What am i to do before tier 3?
Roaches with the tunneling claw upgrade is really really really good against gateway + high templar storm. When they go orange in healthbar burrow them for lots of hp. Its likely they dont have an observer when they go fast templar, but they might still pick one up so try to snipe it with hydralisks and you can really dominate a gateway + templar army.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
