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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On September 25 2010 13:11 VirtuallyLost wrote:
How do you deal with storms? They just rape all my mutalisks, hydralisks, zerglings, roaches... basically everything. What am i to do before tier 3?
Not Saracen here but mutas resist storms decent, specially compared to BW, and like in BW theres no secret trick to deal with storms, just dodge them, try to always be the one choosing where to engage and obviously be specially wary of chokes. Always have an "escape route" so the moment you see the storm you already know where to go, it will become INSTANT. Also be wary of FF possibly bloking your "escape route".
What i also do when engaging a templar heavy army is to divide my army per sectors in different control groups. Imagine that you usually only use 1 for roaches and 2 for hydras.
+ Show Spoiler +
Now before or when in battle (cause sometimes you cant prepare) ill disregard whatever hotkeys im using for what and reassign them according to their possition on the battle field.
+ Show Spoiler +
Its way easier to manouver this way than by pure mouse movement.
Now as an extra tip anticipating the battle outcome can help you predict where his storms will land, if you think you can beat him hell prolly retreat and put the storms in front of your army instead, if he think he has you hell put his storm on the closest way to your base, etc.
Finally remember that storm also hits P units and you can use this on your favor sometimes specially when the P army is chargelot heavy cause they cant stop them from charging.
Hope it helps :3
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On September 25 2010 14:24 skindzer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 13:11 VirtuallyLost wrote:
How do you deal with storms? They just rape all my mutalisks, hydralisks, zerglings, roaches... basically everything. What am i to do before tier 3? Not Saracen here but mutas resist storms decent, specially compared to BW, and like in BW theres no secret trick to deal with storms, just dodge them, try to always be the one choosing where to engage and obviously be specially wary of chokes. Always have an "escape route" so the moment you see the storm you already know where to go, it will become INSTANT. Also be wary of FF possibly bloking your "escape route". What i also do when engaging a templar heavy army is to divide my army per sectors in different control groups. Imagine that you usually only use 1 for roaches and 2 for hydras. + Show Spoiler +Now before or when in battle (cause sometimes you cant prepare) ill disregard whatever hotkeys im using for what and reassign them according to their possition on the battle field. + Show Spoiler +Its way easier to manouver this way than by pure mouse movement. Now as an extra tip anticipating the battle outcome can help you predict where his storms will land, if you think you can beat him hell prolly retreat and put the storms in front of your army instead, if he think he has you hell put his storm on the closest way to your base, etc. Finally remember that storm also hits P units and you can use this on your favor sometimes specially when the P army is chargelot heavy cause they cant stop them from charging. Hope it helps :3
You are a god among men for this. Thank you (and the others, Saracen, MrBitter, Zel, etc) for all your help. We Zerg don't have it as rough as the community would like to think.
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lets discuss terran's newest FOTM opening against zerg which is the hellion ---> banshee opening into an expansion and into a thor/hellion/marine timing attack
the first few times i faced it, i was caught totally offguard. since i've taken to at grabbing my 3rd and usually a 4th queen to defend, but this can slow down lair. also, if he catches you with just 2 queens one at each base, a banshee beats a queen and then you are infinitely behind if he just keeps making banshees.
there seems to be a few different variations on this, one of which uses a double starport and it comes out before you have mutas
getting ready to go to bed soon, but tomorrow i'll go through and post some replays (1100 d level)
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You could do what Dimagas been doing, and just make 4-5 Queens total. Its not really a waste of minerals or supply, because they are great for transfuse, and they allow you to spread creep much much faster. And 4-5 Queens negate any sort of early Banshee harrass.
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On September 25 2010 08:23 ArKLaWL wrote:
Hi Saracen, I am a 900+ diamond zerg. I need help getting game sense, i mean, i want to know what my enemy is doing, because my lack of sense is making 50% of my games ending in a lose...and in some of this games i had ALL the advantage and I lose... like, I open 5RR I make some hard damage but had to retreat and he counters with something i dont expect, like VR, or as terran Banshees.... i dont know if there are special tricks, as using overlords at a certain timing... or maybe just by checking his army...
Can you give me any tip?i am specially interesting in your personal thoughts when trying to know what your enemy is doing
My problem is I know to play sc2, but my lack of sense as zerg ends in a terrible idea, i dont know how to play zerg. :S
Thanks a lot
I think I already answered this before. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=154642#12
Now that you have an endgame timer, to check for air play, send it in at around 5:00 to 5:30, iirc.
On September 25 2010 09:52 Rahlekk wrote:You said to repost if it wasn't answered, Saracen, so here is mine! :D Thanks in advance. Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 02:59 Rahlekk wrote:In general, unless you're trying to one-base, you need your first expo no later than 20-23. That's the rule-of-thumb I was looking for, thanks a bunch. ^.^ Which leads to another question. Once that second base is in construction, what do you do to prep that base for saturation? Pump Drones at your main, or just get 8 ready once it pops?
Drone when you can. I try to do 26 per base (20 minerals 6 gas) until I've saturated 2 bases. If he's on 1 base, I tend to stay at 1 base saturation or a little bit more (based on attack timings) until I defend his first attack. As soon as I scout an expansion Nexus or second CC in the main, I start droning until I get to 2 base saturation. Then I don't drone until I've stopped the 2 base attack. Repeat again if he happens to go for 3 bases, except I try not to exceed 70 drones. Also, as the game goes on, I'll add a few drones here and there, even if he doesn't attack.
This is a general guideline, and changes in different scenarios. It's important to learn the reasoning behind it, which is pretty much common sense. If he has an army, you have to be able to deal with it with an army of your own. It doesn't matter how much you spend on that army, larvae or money-wise, as long as its able to deal with his army efficiently. For example, if he's going mass marines, you could feel safe with a couple of banelings and drone a bit more. Same if he's going banshees.
I posted this a while back. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=124640#15
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On September 25 2010 11:33 KiaL.Kiwi wrote:I know that is has already been adressed very briefly, but I'd like to to revive the topic of pure T mechplay once again - if you've got no sufficient answer yet Saracen, maybe one of the other top guys has some good advice. So here we go (put into a spoiler to make the thread more clearly arranged) + Show Spoiler +My personal problems stem from any mass factory build. I know lots of ladderterrans who I can beat with great certainty if they go Bio or some kind of Bio Mech, but I am completly clueless on how to handle any buid that consists only out of Hellions/Tanks/Thors.
I am especially talking about builds that go straight to Thor after their fist Hellion harasses and expand - not the ones who do a 3 Thor Scv push or some kind of Banshee play.
Even if I am able to hold the Hellion harass without greater casulties, I don't know how to follow up to use my few minutes of advantage. I've tried different approaches - maybe it's easier for you guys to just pinpoint the one that's the most promising strategy that I should try to improve.
My tries to play a Lalush-alike style with lots of upgraded burrow roaches constantly trying to trade armys has failed anytime the T stays defensive behind a line of tower and tanks ans slowly macroes up a huge army. If the heavy investment in Roaches doesn't pay off I usually die as soon as he reaches a critical mass of Tanks. Since most T react with a tank-heavier build to roaches, neural parasite infestors did not work to well either, since they get sniped so easily.
Another approach was to play Ling/Bling/Mutas, trying to blow up most of the Hellions with Blings to clean up the remaining stuff with Mutas/Lings. But against any T who attacks relativly early or just expands with me I am not able to a.) reach a critical amount of mutas that b.) have the carpace upgrades to fight +3 Thors. Againt T which I heavily outmacroed this worked kind of decently.
Very fast teching to Ultras, using only Lings/Infestor to fight was another idea I tested - but since most T's move out as soon as they see the hive tech on its way or finish, I was never really able to have the critical amount of upgraded Ultras needed to defend, if I had any at all.
I know some of the mistakes I make and maybe you have some good advice regarding those details:
1.) I often lose lots of Drones against Pre-Igniter Hellions, especially on open Maps like Xel Naga Caverns - how exactly should I fight them? Roaches before their upgrade are just outrun by them, and Speedlings get roasted into little pieces - but producing both (blocking them with Lings so the Roaches may catch up) cuts so deaply into the dronecount that I seldomly know if its worth it. Do you have certain numbers you aim for when defending against Hellions? (I spread as much as creep as possible and usually try to block some entrances of the mineralline with the 2 evo chambers)
2.) When do you take your third? I am often very hesitant to take a third because its so difficult to scout if he is going for an early Thor+Scv push, expanding, or switching to Banshee play, leading me to produce too much units just to feel save, which in turn cuts into the drone count. Maybe even some scouting advice could be helpful here.
I'd be happy about any further advice on any of those points : )
I've read your original statement, but have made really bad experiences with Broodlords, using them to hold the big push usually works out decently, but I was never able to finish him off before he had enough new Thors+Vikings to fight off the remaining Broodlords easily.
I'm actually in the same boat as you on all respects. I'm at a loss, so I'm still trying things out. I heard roach/baneling was supposed to be okay while you're stalling for hive, with I guess some lings to send in after the hellions are dead. I personally want to give Brood Lords a second try.
1) A good creep spread around your natural is way underrated but super valuable, not just for the speed boost but the vision as well. If I can't do that, I like to spread some overlords around there as well to give me a little more time to react when his hellions come running in. I always have 2 crawlers at my nat against hellion openings, and get a combination of roach/speedling. Always engage on creep, and try to catch him when he's overextending himself (i.e. going for the drones). Always watch out for hellion drops as well. Spread overlords around the perimeter of your main, and your first tumor and its successive tumors should cover a good deal of your main as well.
2) I have no set timing actually. I guess what I normally do is get lair off of one gas and drone pretty hard until I have 50-60, and then I take my 3 other geysers immediately. At that point, I'll have excess minerals to both get another hatch in my main and take my 3rd as well. So I guess at around 60-70 supply? If I do a build that requires faster gas (e.g. heavy mutas), then I'll end up taking my 3rd later.
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On September 25 2010 11:41 Medzo wrote:
How do you guys deal with mass blink stalker? I seriously lose to this more than anything else in scII right now. I am kind of completely unsure how to beat it. Seems everything I try (even mass hydra) isn't working. Currently a 1300 zerg player. Please give details and or reps.
Mass lings or ling/hydra. If you're losing to mass blink stalker, it's probably more the fault of your opening than your response.
On September 25 2010 13:07 Newguy wrote:
How, in ZvP, do you deal with the build where protoss gets an expansion, techs to a temlar + mass gateway army, and then takes a third while continuing to upgrade, pressure a bit but not commit, and then just crush you with a gateway/templar army with lots of storms, charge, blink, and upgrades. I've tried lots of stuff against it, but can't find a way to beat a good protoss player who does this, even if I gain the advantage. Hydra/roach seems to melt to mass storms and the huge number of units, and even if I secure 2 expos and the gold and get hive tech, when he mixes immortals in the mix, ultras just evaporate. Broodlords do ok, but they're really expensive, and the corrupters are useless against a protoss whose not getting colossus. What do I do against this?
I usually just do muta/ling/baneling, but it seems that burrow roaches would be pretty good against this as well.
On September 25 2010 13:49 tackklee wrote:
What do you build against a terran who does a timed push with about 4 hellions and 6 marauders? Also, how do you know this exact composition is coming? I always try to poke in with a ling just to see whats at the front but this push always catches me off guard and steam rolls me.
I'm also having a lot of trouble with a timed banshee attack with about 2 banshees + marines + hellions. I know the banshees are coming and I make 3 queens but the time always throws me off. Do you just make a good amount of lings to negate the ground force while the queens handle the banshees?
First question: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=154642#12
Second question: Yes, you use queens to kill the banshees and a ground force (roach/ling/baneling or even just roach/ling since he shouldn't have that much compared to what you can produce since he invested a lot in teching to banshees) to kill his ground force.
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On September 25 2010 15:38 AnAngryDingo wrote:
lets discuss terran's newest FOTM opening against zerg which is the hellion ---> banshee opening into an expansion and into a thor/hellion/marine timing attack
the first few times i faced it, i was caught totally offguard. since i've taken to at grabbing my 3rd and usually a 4th queen to defend, but this can slow down lair. also, if he catches you with just 2 queens one at each base, a banshee beats a queen and then you are infinitely behind if he just keeps making banshees.
there seems to be a few different variations on this, one of which uses a double starport and it comes out before you have mutas
getting ready to go to bed soon, but tomorrow i'll go through and post some replays (1100 d level)
I've been struggling with this, myself, and would really like to see what the pros have to say on it.
I started my day at 1450, and after probably 30 games, am ending my day at 1302. (wtf!?)
The vaast majority of those losses were to T's opening with pre-igniter hellions into some form of marauder/hellion/tank/thor/banshee. (Obviously they don't have all that stuff every time, but basically throw those units in a hat, and pick 3)
How do I deal with this?
The games I've won were won with almost pure Roach, but the wins are so few and far between that I almost feel like they're just flukes.
I want to go muta, but I feel like I really need roaches, and that just slows the rest of my tech down so much.
o.O
Halp Saracen!
edit: I guess you kinda already touched on this a few posts up. QQ, this shit's hard to deal with.
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On September 21 2010 12:21 Saracen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 11:56 raybasto wrote:
Against Toss, what is the best way to fend off 4 gate pressure and survive till the late game. It seems like if I open Hydras/Ling/Spines, they fast expand and switch to 2 gate Robo in which I am unable to defend long enough to get Ultra/Ling (Whether its because of lack of harass or over commiting to Hydra/Roach). If I open Muta/Ling, they keep the 4 gate pressure until my defenses finally break. This is what I do against 4gate: 14 pool 15 hatch 15 queen/overlord - when that queen finishes, build another queen, take your gas, and spit larva at the main then movie it to your nat (you might want to take your gas slightly earlier) - drone to 32 supply, then MASS lings - build nothing but lings/overlords - take a drone off of gas whenever you have the 100 gas for speed - I have been able to beat 4gate with exclusively lings, but you might want to add roaches or banelings if you're feeling uncomfortable, like maybe he's going heavy zeal/sentry or something - try to engage him as soon as speed finishes because you don't want his gateway ball to grow too large, and you don't want him to have too many force fields
Hello Saracen, Iv'e been using a similar build all along to defend 4 gates. slings + spines and maybe some roaches seems to be working just fine for me. My question is this. Im on Blistering sands, I have used the above build so im sitting on 2 bases and ive got a decent # of drones + 2 spines at my natural. The protoss player shows up at my front door and pokes in and out but dosent really engage me, instead he is forcing me to make more lings. So basically this protoss delayed his 4gate untill he got a few collosus out and crushed me. I was caught off gaurd because I didnt scout very well. The only scouting information was with my 1st sacraficial overloard around 30 supply seeeing 4gates + 1 robo and when he was poking in and out with his gateway force I managed to get a few lings to his natural and see that he had a Nexus warping in. I guess I assumed that sense he was expanding I was safe to drone up further but clearly I was wrong. Given the information I had, or say you knew "ok this guy is delaying his 4gate push until he gets a few collosus and hes expanding. What would you have done differently?
EDIT: also I need to work on my multitasking, I had a spire up with some mutas but I kindof blindly teched to them and wasnt sure if it was the right choice. I think if i was smoother with my timings I coulve easily had more mutas out and maybe stopped the attack.However, im not even sure if they were the right choice. Thanks so much for your help 
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On September 25 2010 17:33 Eazypeezy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 12:21 Saracen wrote:On September 21 2010 11:56 raybasto wrote:
Against Toss, what is the best way to fend off 4 gate pressure and survive till the late game. It seems like if I open Hydras/Ling/Spines, they fast expand and switch to 2 gate Robo in which I am unable to defend long enough to get Ultra/Ling (Whether its because of lack of harass or over commiting to Hydra/Roach). If I open Muta/Ling, they keep the 4 gate pressure until my defenses finally break. This is what I do against 4gate: 14 pool 15 hatch 15 queen/overlord - when that queen finishes, build another queen, take your gas, and spit larva at the main then movie it to your nat (you might want to take your gas slightly earlier) - drone to 32 supply, then MASS lings - build nothing but lings/overlords - take a drone off of gas whenever you have the 100 gas for speed - I have been able to beat 4gate with exclusively lings, but you might want to add roaches or banelings if you're feeling uncomfortable, like maybe he's going heavy zeal/sentry or something - try to engage him as soon as speed finishes because you don't want his gateway ball to grow too large, and you don't want him to have too many force fields Hello Saracen, Iv'e been using a similar build all along to defend 4 gates. slings + spines and maybe some roaches seems to be working just fine for me. My question is this. Im on Blistering sands, I have used the above build so im sitting on 2 bases and ive got a decent # of drones + 2 spines at my natural. The protoss player shows up at my front door and pokes in and out but dosent really engage me, instead he is forcing me to make more lings. So basically this protoss delayed his 4gate untill he got a few collosus out and crushed me. I was caught off gaurd because I didnt scout very well. The only scouting information was with my 1st sacraficial overloard around 30 supply seeeing 4gates + 1 robo and when he was poking in and out with his gateway force I managed to get a few lings to his natural and see that he had a Nexus warping in. I guess I assumed that sense he was expanding I was safe to drone up further but clearly I was wrong. Given the information I had, or say you knew "ok this guy is delaying his 4gate push until he gets a few collosus and hes expanding. What would you have done differently?
You already answered this yourself:
On September 25 2010 17:33 Eazypeezy wrote:I was caught off gaurd because I didnt scout very well.
1st and foremost: Scout better. You saw the robo, though, so ...
2nd: You have to expect toss to transition to colossus after letting off the 4 gate pressure. This means that you need to be thinking about how you're going to deal with colossi well before he ever starts the first one.
3rd: Your actual choices... You've basically got three options.
1.) Massing roaches with all the necessary upgrades. (burrow, speed, etc)
- I don't really like this because stalkers are so good against roach, and tosses with colossus (lol rhymes) are also going to have obs in play.
2.) Spire tech. Pure muta ling can work here IF you can secure enough breathing room to get enough mutas out. If not, you can still try for corruptors with hydra/ling/roach doing the damage on the ground.
3.) Ultras. This is my personal favorite. If you defend 4 gate with mostly zerglings, you'll have plenty of extra cash to tech straight to ultras. The timing should line up so that ultras are popping right around the time that he wants to make his colossus push.
On September 25 2010 17:33 Eazypeezy wrote:EDIT: also I need to work on my multitasking, I had a spire up with some mutas but I kindof blindly teched to them and wasnt sure if it was the right choice. I think if i was smoother with my timings I coulve easily had more mutas out and maybe stopped the attack.However, im not even sure if they were the right choice. Thanks so much for your help
Yes! Mutas can work wonders here. Just remember that you're going to need quite a few if you expect to kill the colossus before it decimates your ground army.
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On September 25 2010 17:47 MrBitter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 17:33 Eazypeezy wrote:On September 21 2010 12:21 Saracen wrote:On September 21 2010 11:56 raybasto wrote:
Against Toss, what is the best way to fend off 4 gate pressure and survive till the late game. It seems like if I open Hydras/Ling/Spines, they fast expand and switch to 2 gate Robo in which I am unable to defend long enough to get Ultra/Ling (Whether its because of lack of harass or over commiting to Hydra/Roach). If I open Muta/Ling, they keep the 4 gate pressure until my defenses finally break. This is what I do against 4gate: 14 pool 15 hatch 15 queen/overlord - when that queen finishes, build another queen, take your gas, and spit larva at the main then movie it to your nat (you might want to take your gas slightly earlier) - drone to 32 supply, then MASS lings - build nothing but lings/overlords - take a drone off of gas whenever you have the 100 gas for speed - I have been able to beat 4gate with exclusively lings, but you might want to add roaches or banelings if you're feeling uncomfortable, like maybe he's going heavy zeal/sentry or something - try to engage him as soon as speed finishes because you don't want his gateway ball to grow too large, and you don't want him to have too many force fields Hello Saracen, Iv'e been using a similar build all along to defend 4 gates. slings + spines and maybe some roaches seems to be working just fine for me. My question is this. Im on Blistering sands, I have used the above build so im sitting on 2 bases and ive got a decent # of drones + 2 spines at my natural. The protoss player shows up at my front door and pokes in and out but dosent really engage me, instead he is forcing me to make more lings. So basically this protoss delayed his 4gate untill he got a few collosus out and crushed me. I was caught off gaurd because I didnt scout very well. The only scouting information was with my 1st sacraficial overloard around 30 supply seeeing 4gates + 1 robo and when he was poking in and out with his gateway force I managed to get a few lings to his natural and see that he had a Nexus warping in. I guess I assumed that sense he was expanding I was safe to drone up further but clearly I was wrong. Given the information I had, or say you knew "ok this guy is delaying his 4gate push until he gets a few collosus and hes expanding. What would you have done differently? You already answered this yourself: Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 17:33 Eazypeezy wrote:I was caught off gaurd because I didnt scout very well. 1st and foremost: Scout better. You saw the robo, though, so ... 2nd: You have to expect toss to transition to colossus after letting off the 4 gate pressure. This means that you need to be thinking about how you're going to deal with colossi well before he ever starts the first one. 3rd: Your actual choices... You've basically got three options. 1.) Massing roaches with all the necessary upgrades. (burrow, speed, etc) - I don't really like this because stalkers are so good against roach, and tosses with colossus (lol rhymes) are also going to have obs in play. 2.) Spire tech. Pure muta ling can work here IF you can secure enough breathing room to get enough mutas out. If not, you can still try for corruptors with hydra/ling/roach doing the damage on the ground. 3.) Ultras. This is my personal favorite. If you defend 4 gate with mostly zerglings, you'll have plenty of extra cash to tech straight to ultras. The timing should line up so that ultras are popping right around the time that he wants to make his colossus push. Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 17:33 Eazypeezy wrote:EDIT: also I need to work on my multitasking, I had a spire up with some mutas but I kindof blindly teched to them and wasnt sure if it was the right choice. I think if i was smoother with my timings I coulve easily had more mutas out and maybe stopped the attack.However, im not even sure if they were the right choice. Thanks so much for your help Yes! Mutas can work wonders here. Just remember that you're going to need quite a few if you expect to kill the colossus before it decimates your ground army.
Thanks alot for your help MrBitter !!! I guess I just have a mental block telling me that ultras can only be used late game on multiple bases but if you macro correctly can you actually have ultras before or in time for his collosus push?
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Honestly im pretty sure theres no real way (at least from all can i think of) to fight the hellion into FE opening. Im pretty sure theres not even a surprise element, everytime i play against it i know 100% of the time its coming and i still lose.
They make hellions so I MUST make roaches, and in all honesty at least one spine crawler because at that early stage risking losing 5+ drones is pretty much gg right there. But then they follow with marauders which HARD counter roaches and im supposed to counter with lings that soft counter marauders and my beautiful lings get HARD countered by now the blue flame hellions.
Next step is Thors and Tanks and this is where all my games end. Because now that the numbers are bigger T just became a BIG BALL with the marauders in the middle so ITS IMPOSSIBLE for my lings to attack them while they can still hit my roaches that are TRYING to at least get one thor to red.
+ Show Spoiler +
And while all this is happening if the T players want to vary a little he can perfectly drop some more hellions in my nat or make a viking to destroy my OL (HARD to have an spire at this point and even if i had there would be no scourges)or a banshee,etc.. Not necessary at all but at higher levels when a Z can defend this perfectly and stay on even grounds after the 10 min mark there are even more options.
Nowaday i just laugh about it and pretend im playing multiplayer on Brutal or something like that.
So i dont know if theres a reasoning from what i posted above that im doing wrong cause i have NEVER won against this
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Hello Saracen, I played some practice games with my Diamond Toss friend, and he 4-gate pushed me every game. I tried spine crawlers, and lings, roaches but force fields prevent a surround he takes out the spine crawlers with not much losses. He also force fields my ramp, which prevents me to bring reinforcements.
Here is my replay:
[url blocked]
Thanks alot for your answer.
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Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 08:23 ArKLaWL wrote:
Hi Saracen, I am a 900+ diamond zerg. I need help getting game sense, i mean, i want to know what my enemy is doing, because my lack of sense is making 50% of my games ending in a lose...and in some of this games i had ALL the advantage and I lose... like, I open 5RR I make some hard damage but had to retreat and he counters with something i dont expect, like VR, or as terran Banshees.... i dont know if there are special tricks, as using overlords at a certain timing... or maybe just by checking his army...
Can you give me any tip?i am specially interesting in your personal thoughts when trying to know what your enemy is doing
My problem is I know to play sc2, but my lack of sense as zerg ends in a terrible idea, i dont know how to play zerg. :S
Thanks a lot I think I already answered this before. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=154642#12Now that you have an endgame timer, to check for air play, send it in at around 5:00 to 5:30, iirc.
Yeh, that post had a lot of information that i need, but what i am asking for, is the same kind of tips but, against toss. Thank you again for your time!
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I got a few questions for you.
Once you feel like you're behind, you should start to harass and damage the opponents mineral line. If you are behind however, researching 300/300+ loads of time or Burrow seems like an uncertain investment, and it takes to long to get you back in the game in time.
Q1: What do you feel like is effective harassment and how do you execute it?
Q2: How can we incorporate Burrow in our play and abuse it very effectively?
We all know Mutalisks are our 'Containing' units. Next to the Mutalisks, Speed Roaches and Speedlings can help the contain by threatening a counter-attack. I, however, feel very uncertain about how to use my Mutalisks.
Q3: Where should I strike with my Mutalisks, how can I find out if some place is safe or not, how much should I invest in Mutalisks and how quick do I need to transition out of them?
Q4: Where do I place my Spinecrawlers for maximum effectiveness? At the ramp with my speedlings to assault once they get in range, or in my Mineral Line to weaken drops/harass?
Q5: You're not in control of the air, what are the first things I should do? (Extra Queens/Evo+Spore/Hydra/More Muta) and how do I execute these effectively?
Thank you for having a thread like this.
Kind regards,
Toastie
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Hello fellow zergs !
I recently watched the funday monday from Day9, which was about try to play with no queen ever.
While I feel you have to get a queen for the later stages of the game, I'm pretty sure 99% of the zergs (as well as myself) get the queen asap. Against T, it's kind of mandatory, because of all the openings that the T can throw. I feel like it could be delayed on some map and if you scout some builds sufficiently early.
Against P, the daily showed that you could have mutalisks so much sooner that usual... The game were not of high level, but it was very interesting to see what was going on for the zerg when his queen is delayed. It seemed better against P, but unfortunately they were no 4 gate aggresion so I couldn't figure the timing.
I have tested it a bit. The delayed queen means a really sooner tech. I could even forget about speedlings when I scouted turtling players, and get mutas very early in the game. On some map, the extra minerals you save for the queen can be used for a 3rd hatch... But at my level (gold), it's hard to say if it is very useful to delay the queen, or if it's just a gimmicky thing that have no real utility.
Since we have some of the best zergs in this topic, I thought I could ask you this question : did you ever try to delay the queen ? What was your feeling about the game with this ?
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Could you do a ZvP and ZvZ version of the first question in the op? about scouting, reactions.
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What are you guys thoughts on how to handle your supply late-game? in ZvP mainly
I play a lot of drawn-out macro games where I've gone for a standard hydra/roach/corruptor mix and Protoss has gone for a normal gateway unit+colossi composition and is powering off 2/3 bases, but when I reach Hive I can't use it because I'm already maxed with 200/200 of hydra/roach/lings and corruptors so he's usually able to kill my army off and despite even having a economy/upgrade decent advantage I'm just streaming units from my hatches which get raped by his blob
I've thought about stopping at 160-170 supply so I have room for broodlords/ultras but it's pretty worrying when Protoss is threatening to attack and you're waiting on your Hive tech to come out while not making units. I've had decent success with nydus harass to buy time (which alsos frees supply for hive units) vs this kind of play but I'm sure vs aware players they won't really be hindered by this at all
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When making Banelings, can you just hold E to transform them all en-mass, instead of tapping E a bunch of times?
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I have 2 major issues right now
1) ZvZ 6 pools - I get 6 pooled in about 60% of my ZvZs (diamond level) with a spine crawler or 2 put in my base and i just cant do anything against it. I scout it, throw down a 12/13 pool but the amount of lings + crawlers he gets is overwhelming
2) ZvT Thor/Blue Flame Hellion Rushes - I end up having 6 hellions and 4-5 thors with scvs following hitting me around 11-12 minutes. Lings are useless and I cant get a critical mass of roaches in time, even with spine crawlers out.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/7607/24282631.jpg)
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