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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On September 26 2010 12:18 syrianrue wrote:
Question 1:
if i go 14 hatch, 13 pool, how do I defend from an early attack or cheese? and what if the opponent doesn't fast expand like me, what if he just one base and start making t1 attack units early while i spend time 300 minerals on a new hatch, then get new queen, as well as all the drones required to saturate the 2 bases?
You don't saturate the two bases, and you only need 1 Queen if you expo that early. Just having the two hatches allows you to exceed your opponents production capabilities, and you only need 1 Queen for larva that early. If you scout what appears to be a push, build up your own t1 army. Don't underestimate the power of a lot of lings and a couple roaches, they can actually stop quite a lot. Once you feel safe (whether that be from defending a push, or seeing that there is no push) saturate both.
Do not feel pressured to drone, because you have 2 hatcheries. In the early game, they're just there to keep up your production capabilities, not necessarily for economy.
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How do you recommend dealing with a 2 Gate Push on Steppes of War? When I see it (or even suspect it) I go for the 5RR. However, I get my five roaches around the 5:08 mark, and four-five zealots can get to my ramp around the 4:35 mark. Should my roaches be getting out faster, or am I responding the wrong way?
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On September 26 2010 14:02 Enyalus wrote:
How do you recommend dealing with a 2 Gate Push on Steppes of War? When I see it (or even suspect it) I go for the 5RR. However, I get my five roaches around the 5:08 mark, and four-five zealots can get to my ramp around the 4:35 mark. Should my roaches be getting out faster, or am I responding the wrong way?
Honestly, with the longer zealot build times, you should be able to defend that kind of thing with just lings.
There's a Saracen quote in this thread somewhere that basically says keep a 4:1 ling to zealot ratio, and, assuming you don't fight in a funnel, you should be fine.
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How can I surprise my opponent early game as Zerg, without doing some bullshit 6 pool build, or baneling bust? And please don't say nydus.
It seems unfortunate that Zerg is so predictable, and lack the early game tools protoss and terran has. (Proxy pylon, proxy rax, cheese bunker/cannons. And just hidden tech in general.)
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On September 26 2010 17:35 Seze wrote:
How can I surprise my opponent early game as Zerg, without doing some bullshit 6 pool build, or baneling bust? And please don't say nydus.
It seems unfortunate that Zerg is so predictable, and lack the early game tools protoss and terran has. (Proxy pylon, proxy rax, cheese bunker/cannons. And just hidden tech in general.)
As Zerg it is much more difficult to hide tech. However one thing you can hide is your drone/army numbers. If the opponent is unsure whether you have a ton of econ or a big army, it can make him hesitant or surprise him. This is less efficient against better players as they can see drone and tech and figure out a ballpark of what your army should be.
I have found that keeping my army (especially lings or mutas) far from the hatcheries most of the time means Terrans can't just scan everything together and toss have more trouble keeping track of where things are (observers are slower than mutas or lings by a long shot). It is also very handy to keep control of the Xel Naga towers when possible.
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I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but:
What is your general policy on overlord usage in the mid/late game?
Obviously you want to use the first 3-4 overlords and send them to critical spots on the map (his expo, some central ledge, etc).
But later in the game, do you make it a specific point to send overlords to EVERY expansion and leave them open to wandering viking/phoenix/muta?
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On September 26 2010 02:13 Elfanger wrote:
I am looking for a reliable ZvZ build to use, any recommendations?
Thanks.
Here is what i find to be the most reliable zvz build
13 pool(I put an evolution chamber between oponents gas if he makes one; to delay and reduce gas income but this is optional. Also when he kills your evolution chamber, you can kill up to 2 drones with the broodlings if he is not careful)
pump drones till 18, pool finishes
queen + 2 gas + roach warren + crawler if needed(if you built an evolution chamber you know what is going on. Also building placement is very important to fend off early ling/baneling pressure before enough roaches to block ramp. You should block entrance to your mineral line with pool + roach warren as much as possible )
The idea is to quickly tech to lair with lots of drones and minimum units and gain map control with inital 4-5 mutas. As soon as the mutas are out you should get your exp. And then with the scout and map control advantage you can do whatever you want to counter his unit composition. If he goes muta/ling I go muta/infestor/ling, if he goes roach/hydra I go baneling/muta/ling, If he goes muta/infestor/ling I go the same or roach/hydra/infestor etc.
There are a few possibilities at the early game:
ling/baneling: In this case you should build 3-4 roaches to block your entrance and quickly get to lair while pumping drones.
1 base or 2 base roach: Similar to ling/baneling but with 2~ spine crawlers and maybe more roaches behind the ramp(the lair timing is usually enough to creep the entrance. But you should make the crawlers beforehand most of the time.)
FE passive player: If opponent FE's and plays passive, economically you are pretty equal since you are pumping drones nonstop and he must build spore crawlers etc. Your mutas will most likely be out earlier but he will have the gas advantage if he plays correct. You should then play defensively and build extra queens or spore crawlers to help.
1base roach/hydra: I think this is the worst option vs this build. You should be able to deny him exp or delay long enough to gain a huge economic advantage.
I'm sure there are parts I left out but I think this will help. I can put some replays later if you want them, I'm 1200+ atm if anyone wonders btw.
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On September 26 2010 17:35 Seze wrote:
How can I surprise my opponent early game as Zerg, without doing some bullshit 6 pool build, or baneling bust? And please don't say nydus.
It seems unfortunate that Zerg is so predictable, and lack the early game tools protoss and terran has. (Proxy pylon, proxy rax, cheese bunker/cannons. And just hidden tech in general.)
A funny build I've been doing vs Terran is using that hatchery cancel trick to hide my baneling tech. Just do the regular baneling bust BO, but wait for 300 minerals and go build a hatchery in place in your main that won't be seen by a scan, then cancel it and immediately and build a baneling nest in the creep left over.
The actual attack comes a but later, but it's a lot easier to take them by surprise.
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On September 26 2010 02:13 Elfanger wrote:
I am looking for a reliable ZvZ build to use, any recommendations?
Thanks.
This. ZvZ is by FAR my worst MU. I have basically one build i know, and that is the 14 pool 14 gas into speedling baneling. Except I utterly despite that play, since it just revolves around who can get banelings into the mineral line first, and you basically always have to be the aggressor(so you can keep sending banelings.) Roaches counter that, if you get it up in time, so what exactly do you pros do for ZvZ? I'm looking for either
1. A Fast expand build for ZvZ
2.Roach build
3.Roach Hydra Infestor build(especially)
or just something besides ling baneling.
Would be much appreciated.
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Hi,
I had success recently with Infestors - neural parasite against Terran mid-late game. Fungal growth comes handy against Bio and I was able to parasite Thors (maybe BCs) and thus turn a battle.
Becuase Infestors are gas heavy I tend to use them with Roaches/Lings.
I am at low level (gold) and not sure this works at higher levels.
So my question is:How many succes did u have with Infestor in general and with neural parasite? Any tips how to use best these abilities.
Thx!
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I could use some help with ZvZ as well, specifically regarding roaches.
If I see the other zerg going roaches to wall off their choke, I quickly take my expansion and rush to mutas. My initial mutas are able to harass briefly, but then my opponent usually brings out hydras, shutting them down. They then take their expansion. If I continue to make mutas, I usually get demolished by their slow and steady roach/hydra ball. I don't like the idea of countering roaches/hydras with just more roaches/hydras, though, as they already have a head start.
If I build roaches, block ramp, and tech to lair, things do not seem to go any better for me. I usually choose to go for fast mutas, but my opponent will not have been slowed down by the initial roaches, and will be able to outproduce me on mutas. Either way, my muta play seems to get shut down consistently on ZvZ.
The most success I have in ZvZ (beside the standard sling/bling war) is when my opponent goes muta/bling, and I go roach/hydra/infestor. Any advice on how to improve my muta game?
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Currently I believe ZvZ is the hardest / fastpace matchup currently in this game and it seems to largely relie on baneling micro early on is there some magical trick im missing thats causing me to loose all of my games or is it largely just micro dependent. i am a 1100 diamond player
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Sorry if this has already been asked, I did a ctrl+f through every page in the thread but didn't find anything for ZvZ all-ins.
Would anyone care to share how they hold off the spine crawler/quick pool all-ins that i've been facing in ZvZ? The opponent will usually bring 2 drones and put up 2 quick spine crawlers on my creep right about when my spawning pool finishes. Lings are quick to follow.
Usually I just get a pool on 14, and I don't like to send a drone to scout super early because of the loss of mining time. Is there any way to fend off this early all-in pressure if you 14 pool? Or do I just have to send out an earlier drone to scout with? I feel like it would be better if I could defend this early cheese, because I will be behind on lings unless I try to outdo his early ling counts by throwing down an early pool and hurting my econ as well. Even if I send a couple of drones to start hacking away at a spine crawler, they will usually get their zerglings to my base in time to mop up.
It's really frustrating, and any help would be much appreciated. Just wondering if any insight could be gained on trying to defend this rush other than 'send a scout earlier.'
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I made a question here and I'll make again so Sarencen or zelniq or darkforce could, please, answer.
in ZvZ if you go mutas/ling and your opponent hydra/roaches, what is the best thing to do if he adds infestors in his army?
thanks in advance.
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In a lot of games involving Protoss or Terran there is proxy use (Especially when watching MakaPrime, I love his proxies), but as Zerg we seem to be limited.
So, are proxy hatcheries viable? (Early game, I think) Or just not worth it?
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On September 27 2010 05:42 ilbh wrote:
I made a question here and I'll make again so Sarencen or zelniq or darkforce could, please, answer.
in ZvZ if you go mutas/ling and your opponent hydra/roaches, what is the best thing to do if he adds infestors in his army?
thanks in advance.
Spread your mutas out as much as possible and never get within range of his fungal unless you are fully committed to the attack.
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Didn't see this question asked yet, hope I'm not repeating one.
How do you deal with reapers into marauders + thors as zerg? The "counter" to marauders and thors in small numbers is zerglings, but once they get like 20 marauders and 5-6 thors, everything that engages evaporates.
Things I've tried:
Mutalisks:
You need a seriously shocking amount of mutalisks to deal with thors once they reach a certain number. It's almost impossible to have enough mutalisks by the time the push comes.
Infestors:
I've tried mind controlling the thors and swarming in with zerglings, but zerglings take so long to kill marauders, the mind control wears off and everything I've ever owned gets killed.
Ultras:
This seems like it would work, but it doesn't. Marauders with stim completely vaporize ultras. It literally takes 12 stimmed marauders 2 seconds to kill an ultra.
Brood lords:
This might be the answer, but after the reaper harass slowing down my macro, I've never been able to get a sufficient number of these out before I get trampled.
Typically the game goes like this:
The terran player does the normal 3-5 rax reaper harass, probably killing a queen and keeping me from securing an expansion while he builds his own. I eventually get roaches and roach speed to push the reapers out and by now he's making marauders and factories. There's about 5-10 minutes of breathing room here where I can either try to catch up in macro or try to amass a force that can hold off the imminent marauder + thor + maybe a few tanks / marines push. I have never been able to come up with the appropriate unit combination to deal with this in the time I have. Help!
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On September 27 2010 09:57 FireHazard wrote:
Typically the game goes like this:
The terran player does the normal 3-5 rax reaper harass, probably killing a queen and keeping me from securing an expansion while he builds his own. I eventually get roaches and roach speed to push the reapers out and by now he's making marauders and factories. There's about 5-10 minutes of breathing room here where I can either try to catch up in macro or try to amass a force that can hold off the imminent marauder + thor + maybe a few tanks / marines push. I have never been able to come up with the appropriate unit combination to deal with this in the time I have. Help!
I stopped right there. You already lost the game if this is the case. You need to expand vs this kind of build.
Also, vs that unit comp, he is going to be very gas light due to the 4-5 rax pumping maruaders, so he probably will have to choose between upgrading his thors or only making them off 2factory. Mutalisks will most likely wipe the floor with them either way.
p.s. you need to be upgrading air attack if you are going mass muta vs thor.
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On September 27 2010 12:54 sixghost wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2010 09:57 FireHazard wrote:
Typically the game goes like this:
The terran player does the normal 3-5 rax reaper harass, probably killing a queen and keeping me from securing an expansion while he builds his own. I eventually get roaches and roach speed to push the reapers out and by now he's making marauders and factories. There's about 5-10 minutes of breathing room here where I can either try to catch up in macro or try to amass a force that can hold off the imminent marauder + thor + maybe a few tanks / marines push. I have never been able to come up with the appropriate unit combination to deal with this in the time I have. Help! I stopped right there. You already lost the game if this is the case. You need to expand vs this kind of build. Also, vs that unit comp, he is going to be very gas light due to the 4-5 rax pumping maruaders, so he probably will have to choose between upgrading his thors or only making them off 2factory. Mutalisks will most likely wipe the floor with them either way. p.s. you need to be upgrading air attack if you are going mass muta vs thor.
This, the problem from what I am hearing is not the Thor/marauder but the fact that you had problems with reapers and got out macroed.
There is plenty of advice from much better players than myself about dealing with reapers (also watch some replays, lots of replays of 3-5 rax reaper around). Once you deal with reapers and can expand and macro you can start worrying about composition.
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EPT
