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On January 27 2012 00:10 cha0sunity wrote: I've been playing zerg from bronze. I'm now in platinum bouncing between 45-30 ranks. I've gotten to the point where I pretty much play on auto-pilot. I have the same 3 builds I use for different situations. I feel like the auto-pilot play is getting me more loses than it's worth. Has anyone else had this happen to them and how did they break out of it?
Thanks for your help
Can you expand on that a little..my interpretation of autopilot is knowing what/when and how to do something, and it should be helping you win. Also what are the builds your using?
On January 27 2012 00:10 cha0sunity wrote: I've been playing zerg from bronze. I'm now in platinum bouncing between 45-30 ranks. I've gotten to the point where I pretty much play on auto-pilot. I have the same 3 builds I use for different situations. I feel like the auto-pilot play is getting me more loses than it's worth. Has anyone else had this happen to them and how did they break out of it?
Thanks for your help
Can you expand on that a little..my interpretation of autopilot is knowing what/when and how to do something, and it should be helping you win. Also what are the builds your using?
What tends to happen is I will start a build, and the build isn't the problem (or at least I don't think it is), but about mid game I tend to stop focusing on what my opponent is doing and start building what worked bronze through gold. But I find myself just making an army I 'think' works and flinging it out to fight. Now I know this is bad and looking at it after the games I know it is but, I seem stuck in the same routines that worked from bronze through gold. I tend to do the same attacks, and strategies without really thinking them through. "The strategies worked before so why not now" seems to be my in-game mentality. I'm just looking for way stay off of the routines that used to work but don't know. I'm not looking for specifics, but if you know of any that would be nice. I'm looking for more general ideas, thoughts, and strategies which I can employ. The builds I've been using are
zvz - 14 gas, 14 pool into banes then roach or muta depending on how many lings I see from my opponent.
zvp - 14 hatch, 15 pool, if scouted a ffe I go three base.
zvt - 15 hatch, 17 pool, 16 gas, 15
I know these are very brief, but things change with what get scouted. I'm sorry for the rambling answer and I know it's vague but any help is greatly appreciated.
Roach ling Corrupter, Split your army into more then 1 group. Come from multiple angles and reinfoce. Try and only attack on creep and near your re-enforcing army. Having a few spines can help as well. Don't be afraid to lose a base, as long as you can save the drones and surround his army in the process. Muta Ling Base Race works as well ^^
On January 27 2012 06:57 Liquid`Sheth wrote: Roach ling Corrupter, Split your army into more then 1 group. Come from multiple angles and reinfoce. Try and only attack on creep and near your re-enforcing army. Having a few spines can help as well. Don't be afraid to lose a base, as long as you can save the drones and surround his army in the process. Muta Ling Base Race works as well ^^
Wouldn't the lings waste supply for more roaches? They get melted by the colossus in a few seconds.
On January 27 2012 06:57 Liquid`Sheth wrote: Roach ling Corrupter, Split your army into more then 1 group. Come from multiple angles and reinfoce. Try and only attack on creep and near your re-enforcing army. Having a few spines can help as well. Don't be afraid to lose a base, as long as you can save the drones and surround his army in the process. Muta Ling Base Race works as well ^^
In my experience muta/ling can often beat 2 base colossus straight up, as they won't have enough gas to build much AA. What's your opinion on this?
On January 27 2012 06:57 Liquid`Sheth wrote: Roach ling Corrupter, Split your army into more then 1 group. Come from multiple angles and reinfoce. Try and only attack on creep and near your re-enforcing army. Having a few spines can help as well. Don't be afraid to lose a base, as long as you can save the drones and surround his army in the process. Muta Ling Base Race works as well ^^
In my experience muta/ling can often beat 2 base colossus straight up, as they won't have enough gas to build much AA. What's your opinion on this?
you'll kill it eventually but lings against ZLots and the surviving Colossi would be dead then its either the P is pulling back and micro your mutas to kill everything or he'll go for it and just sacrifice his units to deal any type of damage and dpending on where the battle took postision that can be good or bad for you. if your focusing on ground i.e melee +2, carapace+2 thats a different situation
What are you supposed to do vs. forge FE into voidray/gateway attacks on tal adrim? Taking either far away third makes it extremely hard to defend, since you can't get queens over in time for AA, and spores get focused down. The only way i've been winning on this map ZvP vs. forge FE is 2 base muta, but it's kind of cheesy and i want a more consistent way to win.
On January 28 2012 09:16 Effay wrote: What are you supposed to do vs. forge FE into voidray/gateway attacks on tal adrim? Taking either far away third makes it extremely hard to defend, since you can't get queens over in time for AA, and spores get focused down. The only way i've been winning on this map ZvP vs. forge FE is 2 base muta, but it's kind of cheesy and i want a more consistent way to win.
2 base muta or 2 base infestor is the only way to play. 2 base muta being a better build though.
On January 28 2012 09:22 Effay wrote: Is that a typo or are you being facetious and 2 base muta is the only viable build in TDA?
I think he's saying its the only good one. I agree with that statement though. I think Mutalisks are the best opening on taldarim but making sure he doesn't have blind phoenix to hard counter is a must .
On January 28 2012 09:22 Effay wrote: Is that a typo or are you being facetious and 2 base muta is the only viable build in TDA?
I think he's saying its the only good one. I agree with that statement though. I think Mutalisks are the best opening on taldarim but making sure he doesn't have blind phoenix to hard counter is a must .
Oops, I meant infestor. vs phoenix openings I just continue making mutas. Stack your mutas vs phoenix and then your mutas are quite effective vs phoenix.
What the hell does zerg do against early hellion + mass marine stim + combat shield pushes? The hellions basically prevent any kind of scouting unless I get roaches, but that takes a while to get to. And by the time I am able to kill or repel the hellions guarding the edge of my creep he will already have a big chunk of marines at home with upgrades going. I would say banelings, but I just dont think that they would be out in time, and definitely wont be able to kill it... just keep me alive. So I will be wasting gas on banelings that arent effective, which delays any other tech I might want.
Most recent game I lost to was a push about 9:30, which had 5 hellions and 30 marines with stim and combat shield.
On January 28 2012 11:21 TheRabidDeer wrote: What the hell does zerg do against early hellion + mass marine stim + combat shield pushes? The hellions basically prevent any kind of scouting unless I get roaches, but that takes a while to get to. And by the time I am able to kill or repel the hellions guarding the edge of my creep he will already have a big chunk of marines at home with upgrades going. I would say banelings, but I just dont think that they would be out in time, and definitely wont be able to kill it... just keep me alive. So I will be wasting gas on banelings that arent effective, which delays any other tech I might want.
Most recent game I lost to was a push about 9:30, which had 5 hellions and 30 marines with stim and combat shield.
You must have banelings imho. If you suspect a marine timing push, you should make a pre-emptive baneling nest. If it's just 5 hellions, you should be able to chase them away with speedlings and spread some creep (get an extra queen just for creep spreading).
On January 28 2012 12:10 Xorphene wrote: How do you deal with a terran that drops your main and nat simultaneously with 2 medivacs of marine marauder?
I faced it on Cloud Kingdom and he was able to position his units between main and third with one drop and in a narrow choke for the natural.
Was just after I hit lair, and before infestor/muta popped.
To deal with multi pronged drops I would seperate your army into 2 hotkeys. So you can have 1 go to one side the one the other drop if needed. Paying attention to the minimap to notice the drop so you can get units over there way ahead of times helps a lot. It does require some good multi tasking so you may just want to improve that if you are struggling with it!
On January 28 2012 12:10 Xorphene wrote: How do you deal with a terran that drops your main and nat simultaneously with 2 medivacs of marine marauder?
I faced it on Cloud Kingdom and he was able to position his units between main and third with one drop and in a narrow choke for the natural.
Was just after I hit lair, and before infestor/muta popped.
To deal with multi pronged drops I would seperate your army into 2 hotkeys. So you can have 1 go to one side the one the other drop if needed. Paying attention to the minimap to notice the drop so you can get units over there way ahead of times helps a lot. It does require some good multi tasking so you may just want to improve that if you are struggling with it!
My overlord spread to spot drops wasn't the best, i'll put that down to unfamiliarity with the map. Good idea about separating the army onto two hotkeys...think I need to face it more to get up to speed on the multi-tasking aspect too.
BTW, your roach opener rocks, it's my favourite opener in the matchup, very solid
On January 28 2012 11:21 TheRabidDeer wrote: What the hell does zerg do against early hellion + mass marine stim + combat shield pushes? The hellions basically prevent any kind of scouting unless I get roaches, but that takes a while to get to. And by the time I am able to kill or repel the hellions guarding the edge of my creep he will already have a big chunk of marines at home with upgrades going. I would say banelings, but I just dont think that they would be out in time, and definitely wont be able to kill it... just keep me alive. So I will be wasting gas on banelings that arent effective, which delays any other tech I might want.
Most recent game I lost to was a push about 9:30, which had 5 hellions and 30 marines with stim and combat shield.
You must have banelings imho. If you suspect a marine timing push, you should make a pre-emptive baneling nest. If it's just 5 hellions, you should be able to chase them away with speedlings and spread some creep (get an extra queen just for creep spreading).
How is there any way to suspect it though? At the beginning it just looks like some form of hellions since all you can see is one gas. I mean, marine + tank push is one response, banshee is another response, and marine + hellion is another response again, and they are all basically the exact same initial info. The next time you can see anything is like 6:30-7 min in, which leaves like 2 minutes to get the tech and units necessary... all the while hes expanded and keeping even in worker count and still has mules. ZvT just feels so hard lately
On January 28 2012 11:21 TheRabidDeer wrote: What the hell does zerg do against early hellion + mass marine stim + combat shield pushes? The hellions basically prevent any kind of scouting unless I get roaches, but that takes a while to get to. And by the time I am able to kill or repel the hellions guarding the edge of my creep he will already have a big chunk of marines at home with upgrades going. I would say banelings, but I just dont think that they would be out in time, and definitely wont be able to kill it... just keep me alive. So I will be wasting gas on banelings that arent effective, which delays any other tech I might want.
Most recent game I lost to was a push about 9:30, which had 5 hellions and 30 marines with stim and combat shield.
You must have banelings imho. If you suspect a marine timing push, you should make a pre-emptive baneling nest. If it's just 5 hellions, you should be able to chase them away with speedlings and spread some creep (get an extra queen just for creep spreading).
How is there any way to suspect it though? At the beginning it just looks like some form of hellions since all you can see is one gas. I mean, marine + tank push is one response, banshee is another response, and marine + hellion is another response again, and they are all basically the exact same initial info. The next time you can see anything is like 6:30-7 min in, which leaves like 2 minutes to get the tech and units necessary... all the while hes expanded and keeping even in worker count and still has mules. ZvT just feels so hard lately
Well to be honest you should have a baneling next well before any 9:30 push. A baneling nest should be down right after your lair is my timing. But yes while its hard to know what terran is doing if you can get an overlord in and see something that can be a give away, if you don't see a natural you should suspect a 1 base timing, if you see a natural honestly cloaked banshee's aren't very likely (seriously been 5-6 months since the last time I faced that build lol).
Hey guys, I've not found an answer to this so I'll go ahead and ask it myself. So I 15 hatch, make my 4 lings, go to his base and see reactor helion What is the most cost efficient response? Roaches or the Hatchery/Evo/Spine wallin?
EPT
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