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The Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 163

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions.
Host-
Profile Joined December 2010
New Zealand459 Posts
January 26 2012 15:37 GMT
#3241
On January 27 2012 00:10 cha0sunity wrote:
I've been playing zerg from bronze. I'm now in platinum bouncing between 45-30 ranks. I've gotten to the point where I pretty much play on auto-pilot. I have the same 3 builds I use for different situations. I feel like the auto-pilot play is getting me more loses than it's worth. Has anyone else had this happen to them and how did they break out of it?

Thanks for your help

Can you expand on that a little..my interpretation of autopilot is knowing what/when and how to do something, and it should be helping you win. Also what are the builds your using?
cha0sunity
Profile Joined January 2012
United States7 Posts
January 26 2012 17:37 GMT
#3242
On January 27 2012 00:37 Host- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2012 00:10 cha0sunity wrote:
I've been playing zerg from bronze. I'm now in platinum bouncing between 45-30 ranks. I've gotten to the point where I pretty much play on auto-pilot. I have the same 3 builds I use for different situations. I feel like the auto-pilot play is getting me more loses than it's worth. Has anyone else had this happen to them and how did they break out of it?

Thanks for your help

Can you expand on that a little..my interpretation of autopilot is knowing what/when and how to do something, and it should be helping you win. Also what are the builds your using?


What tends to happen is I will start a build, and the build isn't the problem (or at least I don't think it is), but about mid game I tend to stop focusing on what my opponent is doing and start building what worked bronze through gold. But I find myself just making an army I 'think' works and flinging it out to fight. Now I know this is bad and looking at it after the games I know it is but, I seem stuck in the same routines that worked from bronze through gold. I tend to do the same attacks, and strategies without really thinking them through. "The strategies worked before so why not now" seems to be my in-game mentality. I'm just looking for way stay off of the routines that used to work but don't know. I'm not looking for specifics, but if you know of any that would be nice. I'm looking for more general ideas, thoughts, and strategies which I can employ. The builds I've been using are

zvz - 14 gas, 14 pool into banes then roach or muta depending on how many lings I see from my opponent.

zvp - 14 hatch, 15 pool, if scouted a ffe I go three base.

zvt - 15 hatch, 17 pool, 16 gas, 15

I know these are very brief, but things change with what get scouted. I'm sorry for the rambling answer and I know it's vague but any help is greatly appreciated.
Let it Raine
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada1245 Posts
January 26 2012 20:31 GMT
#3243
what is the best composition of units to hold off a two base collossi all in, in zvp?

usually done on maps like metal where ff's very easily make 20 roaches useless.
Grandmaster Zerg x14. Diamond 1 LoL. MLG 50, Halo 3. Raine.
Liquid`Sheth
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States2095 Posts
January 26 2012 21:57 GMT
#3244
Roach ling Corrupter, Split your army into more then 1 group. Come from multiple angles and reinfoce. Try and only attack on creep and near your re-enforcing army. Having a few spines can help as well. Don't be afraid to lose a base, as long as you can save the drones and surround his army in the process. Muta Ling Base Race works as well ^^
Team LiquidUnderneath it all they were really quite nice. They just got screwed up. Mostly by stuff that wasn't entirely their fault.
T.O.P. *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Hong Kong4685 Posts
January 26 2012 23:33 GMT
#3245
On January 27 2012 06:57 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Roach ling Corrupter, Split your army into more then 1 group. Come from multiple angles and reinfoce. Try and only attack on creep and near your re-enforcing army. Having a few spines can help as well. Don't be afraid to lose a base, as long as you can save the drones and surround his army in the process. Muta Ling Base Race works as well ^^

Wouldn't the lings waste supply for more roaches? They get melted by the colossus in a few seconds.
Oracle comes in, Scvs go down, never a miscommunication.
VoirDire
Profile Joined February 2009
Sweden1923 Posts
January 26 2012 23:42 GMT
#3246
On January 27 2012 06:57 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Roach ling Corrupter, Split your army into more then 1 group. Come from multiple angles and reinfoce. Try and only attack on creep and near your re-enforcing army. Having a few spines can help as well. Don't be afraid to lose a base, as long as you can save the drones and surround his army in the process. Muta Ling Base Race works as well ^^

In my experience muta/ling can often beat 2 base colossus straight up, as they won't have enough gas to build much AA. What's your opinion on this?
Mvrio
Profile Joined July 2011
689 Posts
January 27 2012 01:14 GMT
#3247
On January 27 2012 08:42 VoirDire wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2012 06:57 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Roach ling Corrupter, Split your army into more then 1 group. Come from multiple angles and reinfoce. Try and only attack on creep and near your re-enforcing army. Having a few spines can help as well. Don't be afraid to lose a base, as long as you can save the drones and surround his army in the process. Muta Ling Base Race works as well ^^

In my experience muta/ling can often beat 2 base colossus straight up, as they won't have enough gas to build much AA. What's your opinion on this?

you'll kill it eventually but lings against ZLots and the surviving Colossi would be dead then its either the P is pulling back and micro your mutas to kill everything or he'll go for it and just sacrifice his units to deal any type of damage and dpending on where the battle took postision that can be good or bad for you. if your focusing on ground i.e melee +2, carapace+2 thats a different situation
On October 03 2011 Jinsho wrote: Everyone is just a speck of fly dirt on the wall compared to Greg playing at his best :D
Effay
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States153 Posts
January 28 2012 00:16 GMT
#3248
What are you supposed to do vs. forge FE into voidray/gateway attacks on tal adrim? Taking either far away third makes it extremely hard to defend, since you can't get queens over in time for AA, and spores get focused down. The only way i've been winning on this map ZvP vs. forge FE is 2 base muta, but it's kind of cheesy and i want a more consistent way to win.
Obsession: The weak minded's name for dedication
T.O.P. *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Hong Kong4685 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-28 02:01:05
January 28 2012 00:20 GMT
#3249
On January 28 2012 09:16 Effay wrote:
What are you supposed to do vs. forge FE into voidray/gateway attacks on tal adrim? Taking either far away third makes it extremely hard to defend, since you can't get queens over in time for AA, and spores get focused down. The only way i've been winning on this map ZvP vs. forge FE is 2 base muta, but it's kind of cheesy and i want a more consistent way to win.

2 base muta or 2 base infestor is the only way to play. 2 base muta being a better build though.
Oracle comes in, Scvs go down, never a miscommunication.
Effay
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States153 Posts
January 28 2012 00:22 GMT
#3250
Is that a typo or are you being facetious and 2 base muta is the only viable build in TDA?
Obsession: The weak minded's name for dedication
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
January 28 2012 00:52 GMT
#3251
On January 28 2012 09:22 Effay wrote:
Is that a typo or are you being facetious and 2 base muta is the only viable build in TDA?


I think he's saying its the only good one. I agree with that statement though. I think Mutalisks are the best opening on taldarim but making sure he doesn't have blind phoenix to hard counter is a must .
When I think of something else, something will go here
T.O.P. *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Hong Kong4685 Posts
January 28 2012 02:02 GMT
#3252
On January 28 2012 09:52 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2012 09:22 Effay wrote:
Is that a typo or are you being facetious and 2 base muta is the only viable build in TDA?


I think he's saying its the only good one. I agree with that statement though. I think Mutalisks are the best opening on taldarim but making sure he doesn't have blind phoenix to hard counter is a must .

Oops, I meant infestor. vs phoenix openings I just continue making mutas. Stack your mutas vs phoenix and then your mutas are quite effective vs phoenix.
Oracle comes in, Scvs go down, never a miscommunication.
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
January 28 2012 02:21 GMT
#3253
What the hell does zerg do against early hellion + mass marine stim + combat shield pushes? The hellions basically prevent any kind of scouting unless I get roaches, but that takes a while to get to. And by the time I am able to kill or repel the hellions guarding the edge of my creep he will already have a big chunk of marines at home with upgrades going. I would say banelings, but I just dont think that they would be out in time, and definitely wont be able to kill it... just keep me alive. So I will be wasting gas on banelings that arent effective, which delays any other tech I might want.

Most recent game I lost to was a push about 9:30, which had 5 hellions and 30 marines with stim and combat shield.
VoirDire
Profile Joined February 2009
Sweden1923 Posts
January 28 2012 03:05 GMT
#3254
On January 28 2012 11:21 TheRabidDeer wrote:
What the hell does zerg do against early hellion + mass marine stim + combat shield pushes? The hellions basically prevent any kind of scouting unless I get roaches, but that takes a while to get to. And by the time I am able to kill or repel the hellions guarding the edge of my creep he will already have a big chunk of marines at home with upgrades going. I would say banelings, but I just dont think that they would be out in time, and definitely wont be able to kill it... just keep me alive. So I will be wasting gas on banelings that arent effective, which delays any other tech I might want.

Most recent game I lost to was a push about 9:30, which had 5 hellions and 30 marines with stim and combat shield.

You must have banelings imho. If you suspect a marine timing push, you should make a pre-emptive baneling nest. If it's just 5 hellions, you should be able to chase them away with speedlings and spread some creep (get an extra queen just for creep spreading).
Xorphene
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom492 Posts
January 28 2012 03:10 GMT
#3255
How do you deal with a terran that drops your main and nat simultaneously with 2 medivacs of marine marauder?

I faced it on Cloud Kingdom and he was able to position his units between main and third with one drop and in a narrow choke for the natural.

Was just after I hit lair, and before infestor/muta popped.
T: Polt, Fantasy, Flash, Jjakji. P: HerO, Rain, Grubby, SoS. Z: Jaedong, Scarlett, Snute, Life. Casters: ToD, Apollo, MrBitter, Artosis, Day[9].
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
January 28 2012 03:13 GMT
#3256
On January 28 2012 12:10 Xorphene wrote:
How do you deal with a terran that drops your main and nat simultaneously with 2 medivacs of marine marauder?

I faced it on Cloud Kingdom and he was able to position his units between main and third with one drop and in a narrow choke for the natural.

Was just after I hit lair, and before infestor/muta popped.


To deal with multi pronged drops I would seperate your army into 2 hotkeys. So you can have 1 go to one side the one the other drop if needed. Paying attention to the minimap to notice the drop so you can get units over there way ahead of times helps a lot. It does require some good multi tasking so you may just want to improve that if you are struggling with it!
When I think of something else, something will go here
Xorphene
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom492 Posts
January 28 2012 03:18 GMT
#3257
On January 28 2012 12:13 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2012 12:10 Xorphene wrote:
How do you deal with a terran that drops your main and nat simultaneously with 2 medivacs of marine marauder?

I faced it on Cloud Kingdom and he was able to position his units between main and third with one drop and in a narrow choke for the natural.

Was just after I hit lair, and before infestor/muta popped.


To deal with multi pronged drops I would seperate your army into 2 hotkeys. So you can have 1 go to one side the one the other drop if needed. Paying attention to the minimap to notice the drop so you can get units over there way ahead of times helps a lot. It does require some good multi tasking so you may just want to improve that if you are struggling with it!


My overlord spread to spot drops wasn't the best, i'll put that down to unfamiliarity with the map. Good idea about separating the army onto two hotkeys...think I need to face it more to get up to speed on the multi-tasking aspect too.

BTW, your roach opener rocks, it's my favourite opener in the matchup, very solid
T: Polt, Fantasy, Flash, Jjakji. P: HerO, Rain, Grubby, SoS. Z: Jaedong, Scarlett, Snute, Life. Casters: ToD, Apollo, MrBitter, Artosis, Day[9].
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
January 28 2012 03:20 GMT
#3258
On January 28 2012 12:05 VoirDire wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2012 11:21 TheRabidDeer wrote:
What the hell does zerg do against early hellion + mass marine stim + combat shield pushes? The hellions basically prevent any kind of scouting unless I get roaches, but that takes a while to get to. And by the time I am able to kill or repel the hellions guarding the edge of my creep he will already have a big chunk of marines at home with upgrades going. I would say banelings, but I just dont think that they would be out in time, and definitely wont be able to kill it... just keep me alive. So I will be wasting gas on banelings that arent effective, which delays any other tech I might want.

Most recent game I lost to was a push about 9:30, which had 5 hellions and 30 marines with stim and combat shield.

You must have banelings imho. If you suspect a marine timing push, you should make a pre-emptive baneling nest. If it's just 5 hellions, you should be able to chase them away with speedlings and spread some creep (get an extra queen just for creep spreading).

How is there any way to suspect it though? At the beginning it just looks like some form of hellions since all you can see is one gas. I mean, marine + tank push is one response, banshee is another response, and marine + hellion is another response again, and they are all basically the exact same initial info. The next time you can see anything is like 6:30-7 min in, which leaves like 2 minutes to get the tech and units necessary... all the while hes expanded and keeping even in worker count and still has mules. ZvT just feels so hard lately
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
January 28 2012 03:23 GMT
#3259
On January 28 2012 12:20 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2012 12:05 VoirDire wrote:
On January 28 2012 11:21 TheRabidDeer wrote:
What the hell does zerg do against early hellion + mass marine stim + combat shield pushes? The hellions basically prevent any kind of scouting unless I get roaches, but that takes a while to get to. And by the time I am able to kill or repel the hellions guarding the edge of my creep he will already have a big chunk of marines at home with upgrades going. I would say banelings, but I just dont think that they would be out in time, and definitely wont be able to kill it... just keep me alive. So I will be wasting gas on banelings that arent effective, which delays any other tech I might want.

Most recent game I lost to was a push about 9:30, which had 5 hellions and 30 marines with stim and combat shield.

You must have banelings imho. If you suspect a marine timing push, you should make a pre-emptive baneling nest. If it's just 5 hellions, you should be able to chase them away with speedlings and spread some creep (get an extra queen just for creep spreading).

How is there any way to suspect it though? At the beginning it just looks like some form of hellions since all you can see is one gas. I mean, marine + tank push is one response, banshee is another response, and marine + hellion is another response again, and they are all basically the exact same initial info. The next time you can see anything is like 6:30-7 min in, which leaves like 2 minutes to get the tech and units necessary... all the while hes expanded and keeping even in worker count and still has mules. ZvT just feels so hard lately


Well to be honest you should have a baneling next well before any 9:30 push. A baneling nest should be down right after your lair is my timing. But yes while its hard to know what terran is doing if you can get an overlord in and see something that can be a give away, if you don't see a natural you should suspect a 1 base timing, if you see a natural honestly cloaked banshee's aren't very likely (seriously been 5-6 months since the last time I faced that build lol).
When I think of something else, something will go here
TheLaddergoat
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom34 Posts
January 28 2012 03:54 GMT
#3260
Hey guys, I've not found an answer to this so I'll go ahead and ask it myself.
So I 15 hatch, make my 4 lings, go to his base and see reactor helion
What is the most cost efficient response? Roaches or the Hatchery/Evo/Spine wallin?
Live Long and Expo
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