EPTThe Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 165
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Klumpmeister
United States31 Posts
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Effay
United States153 Posts
http://drop.sc/99770 So I'm not entirely sure where i went wrong in these games. Both times I scouted at 7:30ish with overlords and/or drones i hid in his base, saw relatively low gateway counts and two gases at natural, so i prepared for DTs and stargate play, but bott times they ended up doing something different (in one three bases into colossus, and the other he put down the gateways after my overlords died and attacked me) than I prepared for and died. I noticed my drone count was pretty low in both games, but both times i thought they were doing two base allins with either DTs or Blink stalkers, so i cut drones to defend an attack that never came, and then I get rolled later due to this. I dunno WTF to do. I know i'm far from a perfect player, but I cant' pinpoint where i went wrong. Did I miss any tells of what they were doing? Were my mechanics simply bad? | ||
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Archile
United States403 Posts
On January 29 2012 09:44 Klumpmeister wrote: vs P: should I bea heavy droning or build an small army at the same time? I say this cause I get crushed by a push right when u start heavy droning. Also I have no spines up. if you're talking about a one base push, this should be relatively easy to prepare for- dont take a greedy third and send in an overlord to scout for an allin. if this is a push such as the 4 gate +1 zealot timing after a ffe, then you should be able to take a third after a 14 pool double expo. get a roach warren around 7 minutes and grab your first 2 gas. get ling speed, lair, roaches, upgrades, etc. (i prefer melee upgrades over ranged, pure preference) roach ling should get you some good defense so you can stay on 3 base without worrying about the push. at this time you have the choice of tech, muta or infestor seem to work the best for me. TL;DR- theyre one base, dont take a third, saturate two base. theyre ffe, take 3 base really fast, saturate, roach warren 7 minutes in with double gas, upgrades, safe against pushes, tech from there. glhf! | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
1. In medium to large maps, in the mid-late game (15+ minutes), I am wondering if using nydus networks a lot can be cost effective against air / drop harass, and more generally as the main system used to defend the base and control the map. The obvious issues are the freaking sound, the cost (100 min&gas / expo) and the low durability of the building itself. In theory it looks good, but pros almost never use them as a defensive buildings. So I'd like to know if someone had good success abusing this building (any link toward replays would be appreciated) or if it's a lost cause. Not really. Nydus have been pretty much been seen as a design failure by both blizzard and the community (they talk about it in their recent article on starcraft2.com). Overlord drops are basically better in every way, cheaper, quicker, more useful. The best way to deal with late game drops, is getting overlord speed and spreading overlords well (I mean really spread them, you should literally have the whole map lit up in lategame as a zerg - what high level zergs do is select all overlords pooled at a rally point, right click somewhere on minimap, then shift left click an overlord icon in bottom UI where theres 20 or whatever overlords, right click somewhere else on minimap, et cetera. Watch any pro vod or destiny, they do this). Also, putting up spines and having 2-4 banelings on patrol is really useful as well (having to pull mutas all the way from a great harass mission or another drop is not good). Try to put 2-5 banes patrolling both main and nat so you can pull them when needed, or the most exposed expos. It's also not uncommon to have bases with 10+ spines in lategame to deal with drops, as broodlord/infestor is extremely immobile and if you get dropped and are far away from it, well, bye bye base, so that's why using 2-4 banes and 10 spines is a great way to stop drops. 2. Against standard protoss play (any gateway units + later, colo), i still use the "old style" roaches/hydras -> corruptors on 3 bases with 2xevo range/armor uprades. At my level it basically works unless I let my opponent expand past 2 bases without wasting *a lot* of resources. Otherwise I usually loose taking another base (to be able to afford broods) and doing an "all in" until my resources are dry. It fails even more easily if my opponent start using spellcasters/archons + blink . Also this style doesn't help with the late game. Broodlords don't get a bonus from my ground upgrades. It seems that the new standard Z deathball is corruptor/brood/infestor + spine/lings. But upgrade/tech wise, it's very far away from my compo (well, infected terrans are, and works well as a wall/buffer, but that's all), it's micro intensive, and weak against harass. So if i want to keep my current mid game (my ling/muta vs protoss being terrible) am I condemned to have a sub optimal late game if i don't kill him before this stage, which is fine by me, but i'd like to be sure What exactly is your question? Roach/Hydra/Corruptor I think is seen as largely 'outdated' in ZvP, since toss just turtlemode and beat it with deathballs cruncher style. But as you seem to understand yourself, ZvP is more about macro than unit composition, like taking the third while toss is on ffe. What a lot of Z players do now, is go that third, and isntead of going roach/hydra/corruptor, they just max out purely on roaches. With 3 base econ, pure roach/ling will beat any 2 base toss army, even with colossi, so just macro well and mass roaches. Toss can only really take his third if he does damage with is opening or the map allows for easy toss third like entombed valley, in which case you can use the safety of 200/200 roaches to transition quite easily to bl/infestor. Personally, what I do in ZvP (and I've learned to use mutas too, they are good too you know, watch drg in zvp games, quite amazing), is max out on roach/ling, and at 200/200 (and not any sooner), get infestation pit, bane nest, drop tech, and go roach/banerain/infestor. | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On January 29 2012 15:06 Effay wrote: http://drop.sc/99769 http://drop.sc/99770 So I'm not entirely sure where i went wrong in these games. Both times I scouted at 7:30ish with overlords and/or drones i hid in his base, saw relatively low gateway counts and two gases at natural, so i prepared for DTs and stargate play, but bott times they ended up doing something different (in one three bases into colossus, and the other he put down the gateways after my overlords died and attacked me) than I prepared for and died. I noticed my drone count was pretty low in both games, but both times i thought they were doing two base allins with either DTs or Blink stalkers, so i cut drones to defend an attack that never came, and then I get rolled later due to this. I dunno WTF to do. I know i'm far from a perfect player, but I cant' pinpoint where i went wrong. Did I miss any tells of what they were doing? Were my mechanics simply bad? Well, the first one... you need way way more drones. You have 3 hatcheries and 15 drones and 3 queens. 8 minutes in and you have 18 larvae and no money because you have so few drones. Either delay queens and tech to get more drones with those hatcheries, or delay the 3rd hatchery. He is WAY ahead in eco because of the huge sacrifices you are making for tech, upgrades and that 3rd hatch. You also need to keep your speedlings around the map. They can outrun anything, and cost virtually nothing. Keep one at the bottom of his ramp to see if he moves anything out. Keep more at each of the towers. Once he moves out, if hes not aggressive, just suicide one into his army to see what he has every now and again. It is 25 minerals and half of a larvae to get a huge amount of information. My style of play is very different than most, but you are so far behind in economy (at least in the first game) that even if you knew exactly what was coming you shouldnt have been able to win. EDIT: What a lot of Z players do now, is go that third, and isntead of going roach/hydra/corruptor, they just max out purely on roaches. With 3 base econ, pure roach/ling will beat any 2 base toss army, even with colossi, so just macro well and mass roaches. Toss can only really take his third if he does damage with is opening or the map allows for easy toss third like entombed valley, in which case you can use the safety of 200/200 roaches to transition quite easily to bl/infestor. 3 base anything can beat 2 base toss. I routinely go mass upgraded ling + infestor and crush the usual stalker/colossus force. A good flank when he moves out with fungals wrecks midgame pushes and getting a couple ultras to crush FF's beats any later pushes. Also, cracklings deal some serious hurt. As long as he doesnt have like 7+ colossus youll do fine, and if he has that many youre set for an easy transition into whatever since he will have that much less AA. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
Thanks Belial, you're always so helpful! Your welcome! It feels like either I fail with unit comp or I make drones at the wrong moment. Like when I try to go muta I always lose to some roach push and when I go roach I lose to muta. And it seems everytime I scout and try to adapt to the opponent I'm too late. It just feels I don't understand the basic thought behind the matchup. Like in zvp I still know these basic guidelines, like deny his third, deny his gas, scout at this timing, if hasn't taken a third at this mark prepare for x. If u see x assimiliators this is happening. But in zvz I don't understand shit. It may be more a macro issue rather than unit composition issue. Here's how I, at mid-masters, view ZvZ, and what I've noticed pretty much as standard in every korean gsl ZvZ game. ZvZ also is my favorite match-up, by far. I love zvz. Third before Lair is the new standard, as you can hold any 2 base lair all-in with it (if they go super fast 30 supply lair, of course, you want to go just go 2 base late lair). The idea is that whoever goes lair later in zvz, is usually better off, as long as they can hold the opponent's pressure. This is because going lair on lower econ does no good, what are you going to do, end the game with 3 mutas? Zerg is not protoss where we just pump out 2 colossi or 2 dts or 2 void rays and totally change the game. 10 speedroaches will lose to 12 normal roaches. Ideally, you make your lair 10-15 supply after the opponent does (mostly just because 20+ supply later lair means mutas can get too high in count, but only if you go mutas as a response really). So then where to go, depends on what you scout. - If opponent goes 2 base lair roaches (builds roaches, not all gas taken, you see roaches, see roach warren researching with overseer), you should go 3 base roach/hydra to defend. - If opponent goes 2 base infestors, you go 3 base mass roaches and drone up, since he won't push anytime soon, and making infestors before maxing out loses to 200/200 roach anyways (thats why you never see pros get infestors until after maxing out, they are aggressive enough to kill you if you tech that hard). - If opponent goes 2 base mutas, you can go 3 base roach/infestor/mass queen (kind of all-innish, but a very solid way to beat it, not my preference) or 3 base muta (like dealing with anyone who lairs quickly for mutas, you just defend with lots of spores, bank more gas, purely drone up, then when spire pops you have twice as many mutas pop and you roll him and instantly win). If he goes third before lair himself, it can go either roach/hydra or ling/muta. Basically, since you can't spine up your third to defend it (10 spines at both third and natural? no way), you can't just blindly go mutas or you'll die to mass roaches (someone can even take their third, and make zero drones and just mass roaches), so if you want to go mutas, and I do think mutas are the better composition (its just 2 base mass roach prevents you from doing it), you have to make sure the opponent isn't massing roaches. If you can tell, then sure, go 3 base muta vs 3 base roach. But most 3 base vs 3 base games turn into roach/hydra vs roach/hydra. Of course, you always need to identify he's going lair. 2 base roach/ling all-in on hatch tech will kill you if you go third, so make sure you see him taking his gases (as roach/ling all-in is only 1 gas) or see the lair or see him taking the third. | ||
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nonsequitur
384 Posts
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
If you see any gas at the natural (you should have a pair of lings run in, or an overlord by natural. I always have 2 overlords by the opponent's base in ZvZ, the one that was watching the natural that I move somewhere to watch natural's gas and to sac if necessary, and I send my 4th overlord to their base to be ready to sac) that is a clear indication they are moving past lair tech. Sac'ing lings and having them die to a bunch of roaches is also an obvious indication they aren't going lair (10+ roaches at 50ish supply is too much, that should be drones and lair tech, not roaches). So like, if you have an overlord by their natural's gas, and you see them take a gas there, or both of them, that's a good indication that they just started their lair in the main. Sac'ing an overlord when you usually start your lair (50ish supply) is also a solid way to see if they started lair or not. It's not exactly about what time you send the overlords in (unlike other match-ups, where at 8:30, warp gate is always done from FFE, or 7:00, when DT/SG tech is halfway done), but rather, "What do I need to know?". If you are at 50 supply and thinking about a third, you should be asking yourself "In order to take a third, I need to make sure he's getting lair/third instead of roach/ling all-in on hatch tech" so that's when you'd sac a few lings and an overlord. It's usually a collection of things that indicate what's going on - too many roaches at the natural (or any, really), gases taken at the natural, no third taken, et cetera... Getting a speedling scout will always tell you something. If it's killed by roaches, it's a good chance he's roach/ling all-inning. Don't just move it in blindly (or, if you are so busy that you can't be bothered to control it, send in 5 lings instead of just 1) - if more than 5 roaches kill it, that should be setting off alarm bells. If 3+ spines kill it, that should be setting off alarm bells that he's going 2 base muta (you can confirm by seeing if he has 4 gas or not, and never made roaches or not). If there are no roaches or spines, well then you'll get the ling in! I always move a ling to patrol their third and possible other third locations (ie on metalopolis, check 3-4-5 bases in case he tries to hide one). So to be very specific, this is how I scout it: 1st overlord goes to opponent's natural (then moves to see their gas or behind natural mineral line, it's a huge indication of roach/ling all-ins if his mineral line at natural is empty) 2nd overlord goes in front of their base to see army movement 3rd overlord goes somewhere by main to sac when necessary/goes in front of my base to see banes morphing 4th overlord goes in front of my base to see banes morphing/goes somewhere by main to sac when necessary 5th overlord usually map dependent (xnc/metal to see side in case of run in banes, or by my third to make sure no lings there watching my third timing) When I want to take my third (40-50 supply), I have to confirm he is not roach/ling all-inning, as that'll kill you. You always scout based on "I want to go the next step in the game, but I need to make sure I won't die to X, so I need to scout". So if you want to take your fourth, you might die to 3 base broodlords, so you need to check his main to make sure he doesn't have hive. If you want to go mutas, you need to check to make sure he is going lair roach all-in or not. Et cetera. So at about 40 supply, I need to check if he's planning to go third/lair, or if he's doing a roach/ling all-in. Ways to check are: 1. Did he take any more gas? If my overlord by natural sees he took gas at his natural, that right there means he's going lair likely (going third means later gas, and if you see him take gas, but obvoiusly no third planted, that's 2 base lair instead of 3 base macro, which means he's likely going to do some sort of 2 base pressure, which basically means either 2 base roach all-in, or 2 base mutas). 2. Are there drones at his natural? If there are lots of drones at the natural, then he isn't roach all-inning. 3. Send 1-5 lings in. Do they die to 10+ roaches at a time when a roach warren shouldn't even be started ( a macro-oriented zerg doesn't make a roach warren until 40+ supply, and doesn't even make roaches until lair is done, beyond maybe 2-5). 4. If the lings die to 3+ spines, that likely means 2 base muta. You can confirm this with an overlord sac into the main to see the lair already started (if not done) and all gas taken at natural, as well as no roaches made (most likely no roach warren either, but I've lost games to people because I assumed roach play when they just make a precautionary roach warren, so make sure he made roaches). 2 base lair roach also usually has an evo upgrading (the evo will 'thump', like all zerg buildings do when researching something. A collection of the above factors can tell you when he starts lair. A quick 4 gas taken at natural is fast lair mutas obviously, so you may want to run 2 base late lair and start your gas but dely the lair so it starts a good 10-15 supply later than the opponents. A lair cuts your drone count a good 10-20 drones, so generally whoever lairs first, is behind economically. Just don't die to 5 mutas, and you're good. Once you confirm he's going 2 base lair or third, that's when you decide what composition to go. You can pretty much send in an overseer for that. 1. 'Thumping' roach warren, obviously 2 base roach. Don't make any more drones (you should have around 40), and use a superior economy based on better drone saturation on 3 mineral fields. Use roach/hydra to defend 2 base lair roach. 2. No roach warren. Obviously mutas. Just defend with spores until your superior muta count comes out, and that's basically GG as long as you don't take too much damage and defend well enough. Really as long as your mutas don't die when they pop to his 5 mutas, you're fine, so take care ralying mutas. You could go the roach/infestor/queen route, but it's not as 'macro/safe' iny my opinion, since it's all about that 1 push. But 3 bases are better than 2, no matter what you do. Just don't make hydras to defend mutas. 3. Infestors. 2 base infestor is really bad. Just purely drone up to 75 drones, and then go pure roaches on 200/200. You will just steamroll him. Be very aggressive and deny his third. There's a reason pros never go infestors before maxing out (on the flip side, the reason you see infestor play a lot in lower levels is because people are more passive, and dont' take advantage of someoen teching by macro'ing or pressuring). Then, he could just play standard and go third before lair, or he could even go 2 base lair, see your third, and take a fast third himself and play catch-up. Generally this goes into roach/hydra vs roach/hydra, but there are some other ways it can go. 1. If the opponent goes mutas, he can win by being 'greedy' like this because mutas are the superior unit composition, and if you droned up instead of just blindly made roaches all game, you lose (which would be stupid to do, but it's also stupid to assume your opponent is smart and go mass roaches assuming he goes greedy mutas). Generally, this is stupid to do, because you can't just spine up both your third and main (which is why 3 base vs 3 base devolves into roach/hydra vs roach/hydra). So you need to send an overseer in, and make sure he's going roaches, and upgrading at his roach warren and evo chambers. Once you see he's doing that, you should go mutas yourself. 3 base muta will beat 3 base roach/infestor/muta (if played right, of course, which is generally base trade), so make sure you keep an eye for that, that your opponent isn't being super greedy and going straight to mutas. If you made roaches, apply some pressure with them while getting your own mutas. 2. If the opponent is going straight for infestors, just skip the hydra den and go pure roach. Max out, a-move, win. It's a good idea to expand again too. You can't really block the ramp in ZvZ. If spines or roaches kill your lings, that is really questionable. You can't deny overlords either. You basically just want 3 overlords by the opponent's base by your 5th overlord - one in front to see army movement (and a possible sac if you are desperate for information), one to sac by his main, and one at his natural to see natural's timing and then to watch gas and drone count at natural. It's not stupid to sac 10 lings into the opponent's base either. | ||
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robaq
Poland186 Posts
Is it just a bad way to rally my units? Constantly changing the rally point seems a little too apm consuming, and making them rally at a position far away from the battle don't sound good either. How are the pros doing it? | ||
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Host-
New Zealand459 Posts
On January 29 2012 21:24 robaq wrote: Since I'm working on polishing my macro to the limit, i ran into a problem with rallying my units. Whenever i hold off a timing attack or i make a push myself, i have all my hatcheries rallied into one of my units. This way I can be focused almost 100% on the battle, and be constantly reinforced right where the fight is. However, often the unit which is the rally point of my hatcheries will die, and suddenly i have like 30 roaches chilling in my bases. Is it just a bad way to rally my units? Constantly changing the rally point seems a little too apm consuming, and making them rally at a position far away from the battle don't sound good either. How are the pros doing it? I'd say it's not ideal the way that your doing it, but you can just shift click from your actual rally point to a unit. That way even if it does the unit isn't just going to chill at your base | ||
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Macpo
453 Posts
On January 29 2012 21:24 robaq wrote: Since I'm working on polishing my macro to the limit, i ran into a problem with rallying my units. Whenever i hold off a timing attack or i make a push myself, i have all my hatcheries rallied into one of my units. This way I can be focused almost 100% on the battle, and be constantly reinforced right where the fight is. However, often the unit which is the rally point of my hatcheries will die, and suddenly i have like 30 roaches chilling in my bases. Is it just a bad way to rally my units? Constantly changing the rally point seems a little too apm consuming, and making them rally at a position far away from the battle don't sound good either. How are the pros doing it? I guess the optimal solution would be Stephano's way, i.e. making unit groups while your units are still in eggs being morphed. For instance, let's say I am pushing a protoss with roaches in group "4", and want to rally roaches. all you have to do, when making new units is : making units. 1. S (select larvae) 2. R* (make as many roaches as possible) register them in the control group. 3.Ctrl+click on the eggs in the lower window indicating unit selection, to select the eggs just made. If you spent all your larvae, you can skip this step. 4.shift + 4 to add these selected eggs to the current group. (I use here standard keyboard set up, but I would recommend btw to add Alt as a secondary path for the Shift function it's really useful, cause Alt 5 or alt 6 is much easier than shift 5 or 6). now your eggs are part of the control group, so next time you move the group, they will rally to the point; and you should be seeing the rally lines. This may sound complicated, but it's really just about getting used to it, which will save you time! you don't make more actions than when creating a control group, you just make units and create control group at once, which when you think about it, is completely logical (imo). | ||
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Eee
Sweden2712 Posts
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MythicRule
51 Posts
-You need to expand like crazy all over the map. -You need to be very active with your mutas doing whatever damage you can. -You should have a very decent sized roach-ling ball once your maxed. -You dont need to trade equally with the protoss! Your trading roaches and lings with a killer economy vs expensive protoss units on only 3 base most of the time. -For example if he splits his army into two (main and third) then run in with your whole ground army + mutas against only half of his army for a few seconds. In this time you can kill units/snipe buildings and fall back or just kill as many units as you can if its a good engagement. The key is being aggressive once you reach this point in the game. -If you're scared of a big maxed attack coming at you make sure you tech up quickly. Most of the time you wont be able to get broods quite in time so just make sure you have banelings with speed and infestors. -Have your army in a good location so the second he moves out you can run in and force him back while you free up supply for better units. -If you have brood lord tech and he still isn't moving out get overlord drops/speed. Your army will be cleaned up pretty easily but not before doing a ton of damage to his infrastructure by killing gates/nexi/tech. You can also couple this with a muta attack at the third or something since he will have to bring his whole army (gets tricky when theres a ton of cannons though) -While he's cleaning up your army make your brood lords/ infestors and crush his army when the inevitable all in attack/expand comes. -Spines/spores at all your bases since dt's are pretty popular when you go muta since they feel its the only way they can put pressure back onto you. Ok these are the main things i've learnt while playing muta orientated ZvP in the last while or so. Rank 24 Masters Zerg fyi. If you have any problems with the above just ask and i'll see if i can help Good Luck | ||
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bolo272
Poland6 Posts
It's my first post on TL so please don't bash me too hard I am in gold leauge and i have a huge problem with early pressure, 70% of games that i lost was shorter than 10 minutes. Even if i manage to stay alive i am usually so behind with economy that i loose anyway. Can you take a look on this rep http://drop.sc/100070 and tell me what could i do better. In short. I scouted no ffe and saw that he had lot of CB on nexus so i started preparing for 4gate, still pretty popular in gold, when at around 6 min i saw just a stalker and 2 setries i threw down evo and prepered for stargate harass which came a moment later. Even when i fended off stargate pressure he managed to get enough gateway units to hold my counter (delayed because of queens off creep). Then he pushed me and from that moment i was just trying to defend. He got his expo and since zerg has to have more bases, supply and income than t or p i died shortly after. From what i observed i made too much drones on two base (i was preparing for transefer to 3rd). Went hydras right after he went collosi (but at this point the game was lost already). What could i do better and what can i do in the future? thanks! | ||
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SK
France11 Posts
 Regarding nydus, it's good to know. I'll stick to spines, overlords and banes. What exactly is your question? Roach/Hydra/Corruptor I think is seen as largely 'outdated' in ZvP, since toss just turtlemode and beat it with deathballs cruncher style. But as you seem to understand yourself, ZvP is more about macro than unit composition, like taking the third while toss is on ffe. What a lot of Z players do now, is go that third, and isntead of going roach/hydra/corruptor, they just max out purely on roaches. With 3 base econ, pure roach/ling will beat any 2 base toss army, even with colossi, so just macro well and mass roaches. Toss can only really take his third if he does damage with is opening or the map allows for easy toss third like entombed valley, in which case you can use the safety of 200/200 roaches to transition quite easily to bl/infestor. You've answered the question. It was a weird way of asking if r/h/c is still valid as a mid game. Also yes i've noticed that macro against toss is basically everything. Good rally points and not missing injects during battles is really *the* thing that allowed me to go past what was an abysmal win/loss ratio against protoss. Anyway, i will give roach/ling another chance, thanks. Personally, what I do in ZvP (and I've learned to use mutas too, they are good too you know, watch drg in zvp games, quite amazing), is max out on roach/ling, and at 200/200 (and not any sooner), get infestation pit, bane nest, drop tech, and go roach/banerain/infestor. Oh I know that mutas are good, and I use them occasionally (especially against Terrans, though), but at my current level, macro-ing and scouting takes most of my APM away, so I don't feel that i can be very effective with them just yet. Banerain is fun, i tried it a few months ago, but at that time, my control was really crappy, I should give it another go now. Anyway, thanks for your time, it's really appreciated. | ||
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Mrvoodoochild1
United States1439 Posts
On January 29 2012 09:44 Klumpmeister wrote: vs P: should I bea heavy droning or build an small army at the same time? I say this cause I get crushed by a push right when u start heavy droning. Also I have no spines up. Most protoss pushes come around 9:30-10:00 min mark. If you are teching to mutas straight off two bases, make sure to have spines established before this. If you go for an early third, you stop making drones around 55 then just make nothing but roaches/lings until the protoss stops pressuring. | ||
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ElementalZerg
United States83 Posts
Such as if I see 3 sentries I can safely assume against DT rush since he dropped 300 gas on the sentries. But, is the reverse true, if I see pure zealot should I start worrying about fast tech? Platinum on na server, btw. | ||
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robaq
Poland186 Posts
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Mvrio
689 Posts
On January 30 2012 05:51 robaq wrote: Whats the proper follow up to a succesful 15hatch in ZvZ? I sometimes feel like this build is putting me behind instead of giving a powerful economy. if your opponent is any smart he'll try to abuse that so if anything be able to defend it, whether it'll be spine or defensive baneling, since you went 15 hatch your gas will heavily be delayed and if he didn't he'll most likely have it before you. best result is your way ahead and he puts no pressure on you | ||
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Mvrio
689 Posts
On January 30 2012 02:02 bolo272 wrote: Hi all It's my first post on TL so please don't bash me too hard I am in gold leauge and i have a huge problem with early pressure, 70% of games that i lost was shorter than 10 minutes. Even if i manage to stay alive i am usually so behind with economy that i loose anyway. Can you take a look on this rep http://drop.sc/100070 and tell me what could i do better. In short. I scouted no ffe and saw that he had lot of CB on nexus so i started preparing for 4gate, still pretty popular in gold, when at around 6 min i saw just a stalker and 2 setries i threw down evo and prepered for stargate harass which came a moment later. Even when i fended off stargate pressure he managed to get enough gateway units to hold my counter (delayed because of queens off creep). Then he pushed me and from that moment i was just trying to defend. He got his expo and since zerg has to have more bases, supply and income than t or p i died shortly after. From what i observed i made too much drones on two base (i was preparing for transefer to 3rd). Went hydras right after he went collosi (but at this point the game was lost already). What could i do better and what can i do in the future? thanks! -well the obvious work on your macro takes place here. instead of those 3 spines you coulda used the 300 minerals for a hatch sand those drones would still be working. -once air went you over produce on spores. usually its one spore per mineral line and/or 1 per void ray -idk why you sent your queens into that attack with the roaches but somehow it worked and I was amazed lol. if he FF's you off you should take the blocked roaches and kill what it can at least while its there. -a general rule is as soon as you see air you should drone hard. also what you saw was just a harass (obviously) . 2 voids and 2 phoenixes is a bit much but that is only harass anything more and he's commiting to air in the long run so go hydra - he expoed before you did, unacceptable. when you won the engagment that involved your initial 3 spines dying and on your creep, you had the perfect amount of money/gas and larva just just make a ton of roaches but instead i see you get 13 drones. I was most pissed about that and you coulda went for it. -you got main 2nd gas real late. (macro) -even if he's on your doorstep only attack with the most help possible. i.e with your spines, pulled queens (if necessary), they were on the edge of your creeped ramp and went for it. that's a no-no | ||
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