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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On January 24 2012 10:54 KhAmun wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 19:24 T.O.P. wrote:
I want to ask other Grandmaster/high master opinions on this.
Suppose in zvz you go 15 hatch and your opponent goes 10 pool and sends 6 ling + 1 drone for spine. Should you cancel your hatchery?
Tell me why would you cancel or why would you not cancel.
Today I didn't cancel my hatchery. After his 10 pool aggression was over he has 750 minerals in units lost and I had 500 minerals lost. But I had 10 drones and he had 15. Hmmm that raises interesting questions.\ But I think the best option is to cancel: You will get a surplus of minerals allowing for quick drone recovery, and either the ability to mine gas and not cut drones or get a second queen and not cut drones. If you don't cancel: If you have a queen yes your production will be better but I don't see any way you can catch up on drones without dying to a speedling or baneling follow up. Gas almost always comes really quickly after lings with a 10 pool, and when speed hits I don't see how you can have the necessary defense and still maintain an even economy. In the situation you described your hatchery sounds kind of like a liability. It seems he's ahead in everything but production, and you need to use that production on drones while he probably have very successful follow up aggression or just expand with a second queen himself. How did the game turn out? upon watching the replay did you feel safe with his follow up? If you held or got ahead of any follow up he did do you feel like he could have gotten significantly ahead had he just done a different follow up?
Here's replay. http://drop.sc/96971
I felt safe,. But I was behind in drones and units the whole game. Early on, I had a lot of unused production capacity so I didn't even inject with my queen. I'm just wondering if I should have canceled my hatchery for more drones. Or maybe I should have not made a queen at all.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On January 23 2012 20:47 eu.exodus wrote:
hey guys
i need help with my zvp. specifically against a protoss who opens ffe double stargate.
against a ffe like most people i take a very fast third, drone like crazy until 7 minutes and then tech according to what i scout and try to delay the 3rd as long as possible. with stargate openers i feel that taking a fast 3rd is a mistake, because it delays you tech quite a bit which usually isn't a problem against gateway and robo builds because early game ground armies are easy to defend with roaches lings and spines, and your army is mobile enough to move between bases and at the same time you can put pressure on the protoss and delay expos.
my problem is that when i scout the stargate opening i tech to hydras and throw down a few spores and more queens, and if i get hydras out in time he just goes overlord hunting denying any scouting info i might have had so im completely in the dark about his next move.
if i scout it late or he hides tech well also screwed, because i have already started roach ling, and when those first phoenixes and void ray arrive Im fucked. he just kills queens all over the place by lifting them and when I've got no more air defense he rapes overlords all over the place, while i scramble to get hydras and spores up which takes forever and i can never get enough of them because I've used much minerals on extra overlords and queens and spores and most of my gas on roaches. so the hydras trickle out so slowly because i have on queens to inject that he has time to run or just lift them 1 by one and melt them with phoenix bonus damage to light units.
my biggest problem is that during this time i can't scout with overlords or poke at his front because of canons and any tech he wants to hide he can do with ease so even after i hold the harass i never know what comes next and i could be wrong but tier 3 units are a Fucking waste when he has the tech for void rays out already because they just melt massive units.
last night i played against 6 protoss in a row, all of them used the same opener but with a different late game variation. i lost 5 of those 6 games.
the game i won was because he only harassed with 2 phoenix and a void with i held with queens and spores and lost only a 2 or 3 overlords and a queen, i then rolled him with my 3 base roach hydra army.
the other games i lost because
1. i couldn't scout colo and i had too many hydras,
2. i couldn't scout immortals and lost tons of roaches
3. i was contained to my base while he took his third and lost to his huge upgraded army
4. close air the fucker motherships into my base with voids, then mass recalls stalkers and zealots, i scouted the fleet beacon late and couldn't get enough corruptors out in time, and the few i did get out just evaporated to voids.
5. i got pissed off and tried to just all in his base but with phoenixes all over the Fucking place so he sees everything i think of doing it so he just spams canons and Im fucked anyway.
Im out of ideas please could you guys help or share relays of this bullshit being beaten? before i throw my mouse again.
You got to scout with ling. You probably won't be able to enter his base so you will have no idea what's coming for you next. But as long as you hold your 3rd base, you're fine. Just mass roach/hydra. Have around 16 hydras and rest roaches. Make sure he doesn't take a 3rd. If he does, go and kill it. You should get maxed pretty quickly. Just wait for the Protoss to move out then engage with your maxed army. Hopefully you killed off enough stuff that he won't counter attack you and win. But if he crushes your army by sitting on 2 base for 15 minutes with an army of phoenix, voidray, stalker, 6 colossus and full energy sentries. You should feel free to discuss with him on whether this game is fair or not.
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I have two questions:
First, what is the appropriate counter to a Protoss who 1 bases and chronos out about 6-8 +1 zealots. This is followed by (very quickly) Immortal/sentry/stalker/zealot. All off one base. It seems a variant of the immortal/sentry/stalker 1-base that is popular now. The first zealots come really fast - faster than expected and force roaches or spines, both of which are annihilated by immortal/stalker/sentry.
Second question may be indirectly related. When the hell do you make hydras? I almost never use hydras. I'd probably even admit I'm afraid to make them because of how hard they get countered, or because of the fact that it usually feels as though that's what my opponent wants me to do. I just lost a ZvP where the P went phoenix followed by zealot/archon - non-stop pressure. I kept thinking "I should make hydras" but was always worried due to storms or a colossi switch. Roaches don't fare incredibly well vs. upgraded chargelots with archon support. They manage but it's a slug-fest. I know hydras would be totally helpful but I just feel like they're always a shitty option. Am I way off base here? Clearly they would have helped in this instance but I'm not sure they wouldn't have just been roflstomped within minutes anyway.
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On January 24 2012 14:58 T.O.P. wrote:
I felt safe,. But I was behind in drones and units the whole game. Early on, I had a lot of unused production capacity so I didn't even inject with my queen. I'm just wondering if I should have canceled my hatchery for more drones. Or maybe I should have not made a queen at all.
I think canceling is the right choice.
At 4:47::
Drones- His 11 to your 9
Lings-his 15 to your 8
gas-his 76 to your 20, neither player with baneling nest or speed started.
When he trickles in his lings to pick off drones by 4:54 he picks off no more drones at the cost of 4 lings.
he proceeds to lose the rest of his lings for 1 single drone.
I think what he did was something that completely allowed you to come back into it, I mean you micro'd pretty efficiently on both fronts.
But earlier, when you have 9 drones to his 10, if you had another 300 minerals you wouldn't have lost any production at all, but you would have been able to support full injects earlier than you should have been able to on 9 drones, especially given that you had to stop their mining to micro them rather frequently.
I also think that if he didn't just trickle lings in and either grouped or waited for speed while expanding he could have had a better outcome.
Oh he also didn't get a cancel off on his spine crawler, which is something to consider.
There could be something I'm missing in terms of how valuable that hatchery is at that point in the game, but it seems like the ability to make constant drones off 1hatch 1queen wouldn't have been disadvantageous economically but it would have been safer had he played the game a little differently.
What are your thoughts?
EDIT: quoted wrong post.
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On January 23 2012 19:24 T.O.P. wrote:
I want to ask other Grandmaster/high master opinions on this.
Suppose in zvz you go 15 hatch and your opponent goes 10 pool and sends 6 ling + 1 drone for spine. Should you cancel your hatchery?
Tell me why would you cancel or why would you not cancel.
Today I didn't cancel my hatchery. After his 10 pool aggression was over he has 750 minerals in units lost and I had 500 minerals lost. But I had 10 drones and he had 15.
Definitely you should cancel. If someone 10 pools you, it's a build order loss. If all he sends is 6 lings and a drone for a spine, just be happy is too stupid to know better. If you are 10 pooling a hatch firster, you should always either get gas (the 'safer' option if you are thinking of the possibility they went 14 pool instead) and go slowling/baneling all-in, or just send 8 of your 12 drones.
There is simply no way for the hatch firster to hold (or rather, someone who makes a pool that late). 8 drones + 6 lings before pool pops like that, you just lose. No micro will work against it, it's too much.
However if they are stupid and just send 6 lings, and only 1 drone or something like that, you cancel the hatch, make the pool asap, and hope to hold. You can check out my anti-6 pool guide here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295586
And treat it as a 6 pool with 1 spine.
On 2 player maps you can 10 drone scout and see the opponent's base at 14 supply so you can throw the 14 hatch down, or just 14 pool.
Really, you 'should' just leave the game, because it's a straight up build order loss. But if the opponent is too stupid to go banelings or send 8 drones, like sending just 6 lings and 1 drone for a spine as you say, then hopefully you can cancel the hatch, and just end up even with them since you will have way more drones.
By the way, I HAVE tested out hatch first vs 10 pool. It's more about losing because your pool is too late (so in theory, a 17 pool will always lose to a 6 pool+8 drones). There's just nothing you can do to a 6 lings+8 drones. But if the opponent is really too stupid to go send 8 drones or banelings, you can possibly come out even, maybe even ahead, if you just cancel the hatch and throw down the pool asap. Hopefully they won't notice you went hatch first and will stupidly think it's just a normal 2:45 pool first build (14/14 is 2:10 pool btw).
The reason you cancel the hatch is because you will have no way to defend it, he can just snipe it. You also need pool asap, because there's literally 100% no chance to beat any 9/10/11 pool with hatch first unless the opponent is a retard (like so retarded they only send 6 lings and 1 drone for a spine). But if the opponent is not a retard, like he knows to just send 8 drones, then it's just impossible, sooo impossible to hold, even with drone stacking and perfect micro (8 drones + 8 lings vs 15 drones with reinforcements is not pretty, whereas 6 pool is just 6 lings + 6 drones, and he has no reinforcements but you do).
So that's why you cancel the hatch. Because you have zero hope of winning against someone competent, but you are hoping they are fucking retarded and only send 6 lings and a single drone for a spine, and then you respond like it's a 6 pool.
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Will it make sense to position a few of your Corruptors at the back of the enemy base and morphing them to attack the mineral lines as a form of harass? I haven't seen this done before in high level games. Which brings me to my second question.
No. Too costly, and if they send a single AA unit over there, you lose way too much for it to be worth it. Never have broodlords out on their own. If you want to harass, send baneling rain over worker lines or the million other things you can do.
How do I use Brood Lords effectively in the late game? Should I aim to trade armies, break defenses with a slow push or should I prioritize the BLs to attack and kill the opponent's high value units eg tanks, archons and then remaxing with a different composition? I know it'll differ in ZvP and ZvT, so I'm asking for both matchups here.
You need to try as hard as possible not to lose them. Usually when you field broodlords, it gets to split map scenarios where you need to start thinking about cost efficiency or else your'll mine out and starve. Don't remax on other compositions either, you just stick to pure BL/Corruptor/Infestor, as the opponent will be too high on tech. Maxing out on roach/hydra is horrible, your 30 roaches aren't going to do shit against Colossi/Archon/VR/Mothership. Stay on high tech (although you can max out on lings real quick, but be prepared to sacrifice all of them to buy time or harass, they are free because no gas cost so lings are okay to max out on).
because it delays you tech quite a bit which usually isn't a problem against gateway and robo builds because early game ground armies are easy to defend with roaches lings and spines, and your army is mobile enough to move between bases and at the same time you can put pressure on the protoss and delay expos.
If the opponent opens stargate, it means no gateway pressure, which means you should start teching asap and purely droning up, and making zero army. It's quite the opposite of what you are saying.
my problem is that when i scout the stargate opening i tech to hydras and throw down a few spores and more queens, and if i get hydras out in time he just goes overlord hunting denying any scouting info i might have had so im completely in the dark about his next move.
I never make hydras in ZvP. Some people play roach/hydra/corruptor, but I got to tell you, Stephano's worth match-up is ZvP. Roach/Hydra/Corruptor isn't popular anymore due to deathball style play just owning it. There's a way to make it work, but it's hard, and basically involves you being super hyper aggressive and never getting infestors or hive until you do real damage. It's better on maps where you can assault/deny the third like Shakuras, and less so on maps like TDA or entombed valley.
You don't need to overreact to air though. Unless you plan to be aggressive with hydras, you don't need to make them. You can defend just fine with spores.
if i scout it late or he hides tech well also screwed, because i have already started roach ling, and when those first phoenixes and void ray arrive Im fucked. he just kills queens all over the place by lifting them and when I've got no more air defense he rapes overlords all over the place, while i scramble to get hydras and spores up which takes forever and i can never get enough of them because I've used much minerals on extra overlords and queens and spores and most of my gas on roaches. so the hydras trickle out so slowly because i have on queens to inject that he has time to run or just lift them 1 by one and melt them with phoenix bonus damage to light units.
Stop cheesing then. You should also be able to tell stargate play easily. Your priority when playing FFE is getting 3 overlords by his base asap, and one by his gas. If he has no gas at natural, no stargate. 3 gas, could be single stargate, sac an overlord and see if his base is full of gateway (no stargate) or has no buildings (likely a stargate somewhere). If it's 4 gas, see if he has sentries, if he doesn't, it's stargate, maybe even double stargate if you see zero gateways and no warp gate by 7:00 mark (which is when you sac 3 overlords).
You don't have to see everything, i can tell exactly if someone is doing double stargate even if they proxy hide both of them.
With overlord watching his naturals' gases, 2 overlords sac'd at 7:00-7:30 (one into main, one into natural, you can also sac that gas overlord too), and a ling poking his front (have 4 lings so you can go through cannon fire to check forge), you can determine ANYTHING. It's not about what you see, but what you don't see as well.
1. 4 x gas, empty base = Double Stargate Allin. Can be confirmed by no spinning on forge (no upgrade). Warp gate should be done by 8:00, if it isn't, that's questionable.
2. 4 x gas, full base = Count gateways, if you see a ton, usually means blink all-in. Could be DT or SG shenanigans too, so see if he has upgrades going, and if he has a ton of sentries or not. If no sentries, likely something else going on too, but if you see mass gateway, likely blink, dont overreact with spores just yet and make a big army.
3. 3 x gas, empty base = Stargate, Robo, or DT. Get spores.
4. 3 x gas, full base = Usually gateway pressure
5. 2 x gas, full base = mass gateway all-in that cuts probes. You need to stop droning at about 65 supply, and make 100% units to deal with this.
6. 2 x gas, empty base = Macro play, quick third. Respond as if mass gateway all-in, deny the third, he'll probably try to mass cannon it due to lots of minerals so respond quickly.
In short, if you see 4 gas, it means you are safe to get lair, 4 gas, and drone up. If you see 3 gas, it means you can get lair, but you might want to drone up instead rather than get lair if it's a blink attack (more roaches > roach speed), so try to figure it out before making a choice of one or the other. You will eventually need units, but not right away. 2 gas, it means you can't get a lair, and need to cut drones, because it's a gateway all-in. There's no way you don't see a shitton of gateways inside his base with overlords.
So don't tell me 'omg i can't ever scout'. You just can't hide 7 gateways from 3 overlords floating in when all you have is a single sentry or a single stalker. If you see an empty base with 3 overlords, or even just 2 or 1, chances are, it's because he only has 1 building, and it's a stargate, maybe even proxied.
Im out of ideas please could you guys help or share relays of this bullshit being beaten? before i throw my mouse again.
It sounds like you don't have a great grasp of Zerg, try to cheese too much, and use an 'outdated' composition. You need a fast third in zvp, what are you doing to do, make 10 mutas or 10 hydras off of a pitiful 2 base econ and just kill the entire protoss base? No, you need 3 bases, and you need a shitton of units.
Here's a decent replay of me going Roach/Banelingrain/Infestor.
Broken image i know.
What's the current ZvT metagame at right now? I'm having trouble against Hellion FE into marine-tank push. I generally put drones off gas after ling speed and drone up hard but after that, I'm not sure where to put my gas into.
Hatch First
1 ling to scout front of T base
15-30 1 gas, ling speed
3rd queen to spread creep, 2 spines to push forward to deny hellions from killing creep
40-50 Baneling Nest, Evo Chamber, Sac overlord to make sure no 1 base all-in or banshees
40-60 Lair
Baneling Speed, +1 Carapace, Spire
Overseer to see if Terran is going 2 base rine/tank, or going for the third.
55-65 Macro Hatch (Make it map is safe for it, or Terran is going for third)
Well recently I've made non-cheesy use of the nydus worm for this purpose, but nydus worm or no you really won't lose a baserace if you play it right. You should attack in such a way that you don't leave a counterattack route directly upon (so that they have to go around in some fashion) and then if you see a counter attack you can just rally your newly created roaches and queens to your base instead of the battlefield.
Id love to see replays. I think you're just a better player than me, so I'd love to see how you do this.
I think ultimately it's about taking the third before the opponent and holding pressure. But I'm quite macro oriented, so I'm not comfortable going for roach based if I see the opponent is going 2 base muta, I'd rather just go mutas and do the same thing, but 'better', and take my free win that way. So do you just always go roaches, and if the opponent is going 2 base muta, what do you do? What about 3 base muta, do you just go kill them?
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Good day zerglings,
I'm a Master Terran who will probably switch to Zerg soon. I'm already in Diamond but don't know any strategies yet. I read the recommendation thread and the liquipedia entries but they seem outdated, gimmicky and non-standard. Therefore, I'd like to ask if someone could redirect me to a replay/guide/vod which deals with absolute standard play in all three MUs. I'm searching something like Drewbie's current Terran guide which is solid, non-gimmicky, standard play.
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On January 25 2012 02:42 VoO wrote:
Good day zerglings,
I'm a Master Terran who will probably switch to Zerg soon. I'm already in Diamond but don't know any strategies yet. I read the recommendation thread and the liquipedia entries but they seem outdated, gimmicky and non-standard. Therefore, I'd like to ask if someone could redirect me to a replay/guide/vod which deals with absolute standard play in all three MUs. I'm searching something like Drewbie's current Terran guide which is solid, non-gimmicky, standard play.
maybe you should check the yt-channel from dignitasapollo.
anyways, i use this build against every MU:
9 OL
14 Gas
14 Pool
15 OL
15 Queen + 2x2 Lings
20 Hatch
/e: then i start thinking about what i should do because of scouting information.
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what should i suppose to do vs a terran 2 base thor/tank/hellion (meck)? i really feel that i can't fight this army..i generally mass roaches but they get destroyed by this composition..what do u suggest?
i think mutas are not the way because i can't crush this 2 base with 4-5 thors with mutas and its difficoult to counter because i don't have an high muta count..
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what should i suppose to do vs a terran 2 base thor/tank/hellion (meck)? i really feel that i can't fight this army..i generally mass roaches but they get destroyed by this composition..what do u suggest?
Take a third as soon as overseer/sac'd overlords see he's going mech. Get 75 drones, mass roaches. If you are having trouble with 2 base mech, it's more likely your macro.
Going Ling/Bane/Muta is definitely viable too against 2 base mech, 4-5 thors is crushed by ~15 mutas with ling/bane support.
You need to work on taking your third quicker and droning up better.
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I have a question:
In ZvT, should you go for pure Ling/Bane/Muta, going for a deathball flock of 2/2 mutas, maybe getting neat stuff like overlord drop to drop lings or banes for harass, burrow, overlord speed, et cetera, all the 'goodies', or should you be moving to hive asap?
I find that on certain maps, like TDA, going broodlords is a death sentence - you get dropped to shreds, terran just outmaneuvers you, and if they stick to pure rine/tank with no thors or tech, especially, they just send little hitsquads of rine/tank everywhere.
I feel on split map scenarios like Shakuras, bl is great. But I'm starting to move further and further away from hive tech and ever even getting infestors in ZvT, going more for super aggressive ling/bane pushes and counterattacks, and using mass mutas and the power of 2 macro hatches on 5 bases.
Agree? Disagree? Only in certain scenarios? On TDA I've lost to super mobile rine/tank hitsquads too because you can't exactly split forces with it (but bl/infestor would be even worse against that). Maybe just hate that map for tvz.
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Recently I've started to stay on Lair tech for as long as possible in ZvT. I completely agree that on Shakura, and a few others BL is definitely the answer. However, constant Muta movement on bigger maps such as TDA seem to be a much wiser option. Aside from the occasional loss from lack of scouting my ZvT has been near unstoppable. Dimaga? or Zenio at HSC did a 2-2 ling/bane build that I've found works best, followed up by mutas when you feel you have the time. I found that the larger the maps the more I stay away from Tier 3 zerg. (Adrenal/3-3 ups is the main reason I make Hive in the majority of my games.)
Granted I'm only playing mid Masters players atm so my opinion isn't 100% reliable.
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On January 25 2012 12:55 Belial88 wrote:
I have a question:
In ZvT, should you go for pure Ling/Bane/Muta, going for a deathball flock of 2/2 mutas, maybe getting neat stuff like overlord drop to drop lings or banes for harass, burrow, overlord speed, et cetera, all the 'goodies', or should you be moving to hive asap?
I find that on certain maps, like TDA, going broodlords is a death sentence - you get dropped to shreds, terran just outmaneuvers you, and if they stick to pure rine/tank with no thors or tech, especially, they just send little hitsquads of rine/tank everywhere.
I feel on split map scenarios like Shakuras, bl is great. But I'm starting to move further and further away from hive tech and ever even getting infestors in ZvT, going more for super aggressive ling/bane pushes and counterattacks, and using mass mutas and the power of 2 macro hatches on 5 bases.
Agree? Disagree? Only in certain scenarios? On TDA I've lost to super mobile rine/tank hitsquads too because you can't exactly split forces with it (but bl/infestor would be even worse against that). Maybe just hate that map for tvz.
This is largely dependent on how aggressive the Terran is being. In general, you should respond in similar aggressiveness to the terran. If they're making lots of aggressive pushes, staying on ling/bling/muta makes perfect sense, as long as you're keeping your upgrades up with the Terran's.
On the other hand, if they're turtling or investing a lot in upgrades/technology/production over army, you either need to kill them with a huge attack or head to hive tech with solid upgrades as soon as possible. I really don't like going Broodlords against Terran, so I generally opt for a large attack. On some maps, however, this simply isn't feasible.
In my opinion you should never get drop when you're going ling bling muta (well, not until the late game). Your force is mobile enough on ground and air that you shouldn't need to drop (they already have turrets in place anyway) and a well sim citied base will be hard to attack anyway. Additionally, your gas is extremely important when going ling/bling/muta so the expensive drop upgrades just won't pay off. Overlord speed and burrow are both great upgrades, however, so you should get them once you get up to 8 geysers of gas.
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On January 24 2012 19:11 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote + because it delays you tech quite a bit which usually isn't a problem against gateway and robo builds because early game ground armies are easy to defend with roaches lings and spines, and your army is mobile enough to move between bases and at the same time you can put pressure on the protoss and delay expos. If the opponent opens stargate, it means no gateway pressure, which means you should start teching asap and purely droning up, and making zero army. It's quite the opposite of what you are saying.
Any stargate/gateway pressure (3 gate void comes to mind) will come with a lot of zealots, so you can't just skip gateway units entirely. However, you only need to make like 6 roaches and then you can go back to droning like crazy.
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In my opinion you should never get drop when you're going ling bling muta (well, not until the late game). Your force is mobile enough on ground and air that you shouldn't need to drop (they already have turrets in place anyway) and a well sim citied base will be hard to attack anyway. Additionally, your gas is extremely important when going ling/bling/muta so the expensive drop upgrades just won't pay off. Overlord speed and burrow are both great upgrades, however, so you should get them once you get up to 8 geysers of gas.
yea that's what I do. Go overlord drop basically instead of hive (i usually go very late hive regardless of the mu and game, i think lower tech is better). I'm never actually used it to any utility though, maybe I'll stop getting it.
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What is the proper response to Thor-Hellion with scv repair? Roach Infestor? Muta Roach? I can't seem to make anything work.
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So I'm currenty playing muta style zvt and my ZvT used to be my best match-up but now it's getting hard. I have two main problems
1). Playing against terrans who get a fast third and turtle. Now I guess this is map dependent, but on certain maps like shattered or antiga it seems impossible to do any real damage against the T. How should I approach this style? I feel like I should go muta heavy and try to harass more?
2) Terrans who go 1-rax expand. I'm not sure how to deal with this style since the threat of marines makes me nervous. Should I be taking a fast third instead of macro hatch in main?
Thanks in advance.
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^ trying to harass someone who's turtling is never really a good idea.
Take it as an opportunity to drone hard.
Terran generally has 2 choices:
1. Expand into 2 base rine/tank timing (throws down extra rax before third)
2. Expand into third, then 3 base rine/tank timing (throws down third before extra rax)
2 is becoming much more popular, as 2 base rine/tank is easily held off these days by better control, using lots of lings and less banes, getting +1 carapace, creep spread, and macro hatch with lots of larva to out-produce extremely fast even if you don't make units until he pushes out.
When lair finishes, you should send an overseer in. If you haven't started your macro hatch yet, which you should have, you can make it as the third. If you have started your macro hatch, just take your third right away. Take it as a time to tech up, you should be able to tell which he's doing with an oversee seeing if he has lots of rax (more than 3) or a CC started in an empty base.
You basically just have to deny the fourth, and try to overwhelmingly crush their 3 base push with ling/bane/muta.
If Terran goes 1 rax expand, it means they'll have a large bio army quicker than normal. Scout to see what terran is doing, if he goes 1 rax expand into 3 more rax, it means a large bio force can come around 40-50 supply, instead of the usual 55-65 supply. I usually compensate for this by getting my first gas much earlier, and get speed then baneling nest quite quickly. If you get your gas later, you can just use banelings before speed. I then don't take my next 3 gas much later, because the idea is to make an army earlier than normal, around 40ish supply instead of 60+ supply, kill off the terran pressure, and then terran can't do anything about you taking a third. If you don't kill off his army, you can't really take a third until you have the larger army, since most likely he will have the larger army, but you have aoe in banes.
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On January 25 2012 07:20 Terence Chill wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 25 2012 02:42 VoO wrote:
Good day zerglings,
I'm a Master Terran who will probably switch to Zerg soon. I'm already in Diamond but don't know any strategies yet. I read the recommendation thread and the liquipedia entries but they seem outdated, gimmicky and non-standard. Therefore, I'd like to ask if someone could redirect me to a replay/guide/vod which deals with absolute standard play in all three MUs. I'm searching something like Drewbie's current Terran guide which is solid, non-gimmicky, standard play. maybe you should check the yt-channel from dignitasapollo. anyways, i use this build against every MU: 9 OL 14 Gas 14 Pool 15 OL 15 Queen + 2x2 Lings 20 Hatch /e: then i start thinking about what i should do because of scouting information.
Thank you, exactly what I was looking for. This helped me very much!
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-250920.jpg)
