EPTThe Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 108
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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insta111
United States80 Posts
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Chessz
United States644 Posts
On October 26 2011 09:29 insta111 wrote: As a diamond zerg, I often find myself with tons of mineral in the mid to late game and not very much gas. What should I spend all this money on? Zerglings are way too larva intensive to use all this money on. Or is this an indication I should be expanding faster and getting more gas geysers? Does this happen between your 3-4 and 5-6 gasses? if so, happens to me all the time, then it means you need to get your 3rd base gasses up sooner (i really like having 6 gasses for muta/ling/bane midgames) or expand further. it never hurts to add in hatches, extra spine/spores at expos too, just remember to remake a few drones also diamond z | ||
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Chinesewonder
Canada354 Posts
Thoughts? Also, is the main way to scout a ling all in by scouting whether or not your opponent takes drones off gas after? What are some other tell tale signs? | ||
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FleshlyVoid
7 Posts
Also, diamond z | ||
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Servius_Fulvius
United States947 Posts
From watching pro casts they usually respond with a handful of hydra. I haven't been able to pick up on the trigger for this building placement, so I'm wondering if someone could help me out in the timings department! | ||
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freewareplayer
Germany403 Posts
On October 26 2011 13:54 Servius_Fulvius wrote: For some reason all my platinum zvz's are against muta builds. I'm guessing a big-name zerg (like Nestea) is raping face with it in tournaments or day9 did a daily on it OR lower level zvz haters are using it to farm wins in this much-despised matchup. Anyways... From watching pro casts they usually respond with a handful of hydra. I haven't been able to pick up on the trigger for this building placement, so I'm wondering if someone could help me out in the timings department! If you cant defend the initial mutas with spores/queens, hydras are good, the more of them you get, the worse it will become for you. A smart muta player will get a handfull of mutas to do damage/contain you, and then switch back to roach production. Point is, if you invest a lot in hydras, he can just get some speedbanes, and hydras die about as quick to banes as marines do, not a good spot to be in. So if you can, try to counter the mutas with infestors, and if needed a small number of initial hydras. | ||
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Br3ezy
United States720 Posts
On October 26 2011 09:53 FleshlyVoid wrote: I need a good 1 base zerg all-in build when I'm playing sleep deprived. Also, diamond z 3rr zvp Not really any 1 base for Terran but you could 2 base roach ling all in Zvz uh like a 10/10 banelings and skip speed | ||
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On October 26 2011 09:48 Chinesewonder wrote: Quick question. When going 15 hatch and defending a mass ling all in, you can't build pure roach. I found that the first thing they will target is the hatch. When you move out to defend, then you get surrounded and quickly die, plus the ling reinforcements are a nail in the coffin. I've read a guide where it says to build just lings, however I was thinking of just adding a baneling nest. Thoughts? Also, is the main way to scout a ling all in by scouting whether or not your opponent takes drones off gas after? What are some other tell tale signs? Scouting your opponents gas is a good way to find out if he's teching, but it doesn't guarantee that he's all-inning, or droning up... You really need to scout his worker count for that. While it is possible to hold ling all-ins with pure roach, it's difficult to do so while staying ahead. Additionally, if you're going to hold with pure roach, you really need some good building placement in your natural. Try walling the gap between your ramp and the hatch with the roach warren, or an evo chamber. Never position your roaches in such a way that they can be completely surrounded. I find that going hatch first into lings of your own is the best way to guarantee a safe transition into the mid-game. My usual hatch first goes something like this: 15 hatch, 14 gas, 13 pool Drones until pool is up, 3 sets of lings before first queen, speed asap, and YES, definitely add that baneling nest. Defensive banes allow you to get away with far fewer lings, meaning more drones and a better mid-game. On October 26 2011 09:53 FleshlyVoid wrote: I need a good 1 base zerg all-in build when I'm playing sleep deprived. Also, diamond z Why? Playing while tired is usually a bad idea in the first place, but it can be a pretty good training mechanism. When your body is exhausted, your brain tends to work much more slowly, meaning that your actions in game are less conscious, and much more instinctive. In other words, playing while tired is a great way to test your instincts and drill your mechanics, even if your decision making is going to suffer because of it. That said, if you just insist on all-inning, roach busts and 7 pools are about as good as it gets for Zerg. Roach all-in: 13 pool, 15 gas no ling speed Start RW around 50% completion on your queen (hide it as well as you can, obviously) Save larvae, and gogogo with 5-7 roaches On October 26 2011 13:54 Servius_Fulvius wrote: For some reason all my platinum zvz's are against muta builds. I'm guessing a big-name zerg (like Nestea) is raping face with it in tournaments or day9 did a daily on it OR lower level zvz haters are using it to farm wins in this much-despised matchup. Anyways... From watching pro casts they usually respond with a handful of hydra. I haven't been able to pick up on the trigger for this building placement, so I'm wondering if someone could help me out in the timings department! Muta builds ARE becoming more popular in ZvZ, though I still don't think anyone has figured out the perfect way to get them out. Nestea has called muta play the future of ZvZ, IdrA has been experimenting with them some on his stream, and FruitDealer used them pretty effectively against Dong Rae Gu in the IEM: NY finals. There's really no great way to scout mutas outside of seeing the spire building. Spine crawler walls are a hint, but they're hardly a guarantee. As you play more and more, you'll develop a "feel" for when your opponent is doing something unusual (and that usually means muta in ZvZ), but until then, the best way to figure out what the other guy is up to is by being aggressive. Attacking forces your opponent to defend, and to defend, you have to reveal your units. If you know mutas are coming, Hydras are an okay response. Roach timings are also decent. And infestors can still work, too. More than anything, though, ZvZ is about staying ahead in economy, upgrades, and supply. Honestly, if you can make sure you've always got more stuff than your opponent, army composition is generally less important. (don't get me wrong, army comp is important... 200/200 ling will never beat 200/200 roach/bane, but eco, upgrades, expansions, and scouting will usually get you farther than just "hydras" or just "mutas") | ||
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Macpo
453 Posts
 that works fine for me | ||
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IheartBANELINGS
United States8 Posts
On October 25 2011 18:53 CrueltY wrote: I have begun delaying my gas in my recent ZvTs, in order to drone harder, but have been having a hard time holding hellion harrass. As my ling speed is delayed, how should I defend early hellion pokes without roach/ling numbers? Also, just another quick one, what should trigger me to switch into roaches when T does a hellion opener? Thanks, CrueltY i struggled with the same thing for the longest time. if you just get 2 queens out at your nat with a spine behind ur minerals, as well as a queen in your main you should be able to hold off most early game hellion harass | ||
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BarbarossaSC2
United States75 Posts
I have difficulty having to choose between defensive openings while still having army. The static defense is nice, but the gameplay behind Zerg is so timing-sensitive. Some games when my creep spread is good, I have adequate time to respond, but if Terrans get a siege position up in time, on a 2-base timing attack, I have so much trouble dealing with that. I usually don't tech too hard, and try to stay on lings as long as possible so I can fund a cheap army and an economy at the same time. I usually get my pool around 14 and hatch at 15 with speed done after the 2nd hatch is complete. I'm just getting stomped and would like some "noob to zerg? hay this is wut i do!" Any general advice in terms of decision making for army or econ would be the most helpful. Also how do you scout in the midgame aside from suiciding a ling? Thanks! | ||
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
Also, do you guys think it is important to get fast lair against a toss ffe in order to get an overseer to scout them out? What are some timings I should know? | ||
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DW-Unrec
492 Posts
Hey! I saved up a bunch of questions after my replay analisys. When do I put drones back on gas and make the others geysers? My timing on this is bad because im insecure. Assuming I want mutas to be ready after (that's the standard, right?) the possible 9 minute push. Also, how do I scout if there will be a 9 minute push? If it wont come, I'm safe to make 10 mutas and expand? If there is no hellion at my door, can I take a third? If so, •When do I take it? •Do I saturate it before he does some push? bump to the usky husky | ||
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Amaterasu1234
United States317 Posts
On October 25 2011 06:24 DW-Unrec wrote: Sorry, I had my mind on ZvT for the whole week, i completely forgot about the other matchups. Standard ZvT, 9 minute mutas (or delay if he's pushing at 9). Assuming no roaches to break the hellion contain. Ahh! Well, I think drones go back on gas ~36 supply, then you take two more gases for three total as your lair starts, and then, as your lair finishes you take your fourth and final gas. If there are no hellions at your door, you might as well take your third probably after you start lair and/or the spire. Really, it varies depending on how you time your gases. As for saturating it, I wouldn't suggest it no, but maybe a transfer to increase mineral income rate. Standard drone count at ~8:30 is 55-60 drones on two bases, at which point you make pure lings/overlords while your spire completes. After you've defeated the 9 minute push, you can drone hardcore. | ||
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sdrawkcab_
Norway113 Posts
I'm a plat Z player and I'm struggling in ZvP lategame, I just feel lost and unsure what to do when that P get that big ball of Sentries, Stalkers and Colossi. What composition is good against this, what sort of engangement should I pursue? Here is a replay of a game I just played and didnt feel good at all: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/14690 Felt good about the opening, I think I should have taken my third a lot faster. Am I also teching too slowly? One reason for that could be that I don't really know what I am teching towards. So when facing that Gateway/Robo mix, what should I tech to? Tried to do a big drop, destroy the infrastructure then remax a new army. But this did not really work the way I hoped it would. So, any advice for a fellow Zerg? I know that I was at a great advantage, but didn't feel confident enough to attack. Another thing I've faced a lot lately is that annoying 6pool/spine rush, and I seem unable to defend it. Even when I see it coming I just can't win. What is the correct response to this rush? Is 14pool to late? If I hatch first should I just gg at once? | ||
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
On October 27 2011 00:45 BarbarossaSC2 wrote: Hi people, I recently switched to Zerg -been wanting to for awhile. I overall think the race has the highest potential, but overall I'm just tired of playing Terran. I'm at the Gold level, and here are the questions I have: I have difficulty having to choose between defensive openings while still having army. The static defense is nice, but the gameplay behind Zerg is so timing-sensitive. Some games when my creep spread is good, I have adequate time to respond, but if Terrans get a siege position up in time, on a 2-base timing attack, I have so much trouble dealing with that. I usually don't tech too hard, and try to stay on lings as long as possible so I can fund a cheap army and an economy at the same time. I usually get my pool around 14 and hatch at 15 with speed done after the 2nd hatch is complete. I'm just getting stomped and would like some "noob to zerg? hay this is wut i do!" Any general advice in terms of decision making for army or econ would be the most helpful. Also how do you scout in the midgame aside from suiciding a ling? Thanks! You need to have map awareness and catch them in transition. Especially if you like doing a stephano-esque ling-style play. You should have a ling at every watch tower and OLs spread out to spot drops. Here is a good thread/guide on ling heavy zvt: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=261176 If you are going to engage an sieged position, spawning a few infested terrans to soak up tank damage before you engage is advisable. Btw, getting hatch before pool will help you a lot vs hellion openings. | ||
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
On October 27 2011 01:00 KimJongChill wrote: So my ZvZ has gotten kinda bad all of a sudden, and I think it's because I forgot how to play a proper mid-game roach/infestor. Do you guys think it is a good idea to only get attack upgrades for roach so that I can get out more infestors? I figure since armor doesnt really block fungal that I might as well just skip armor upgrades. Also, do you guys think it is important to get fast lair against a toss ffe in order to get an overseer to scout them out? What are some timings I should know? Yea, it's usually a good idea if you can't afford both. Attack upgrade is much better for roaches as roaches do +2 damage per attack but only get +1 armor per upgrade. It also allows roaches to 2-shot zerglings. Also, make sure you have full saturation on all your bases in the mid game, it seems to be the thing most zergs forget. I don't think fast lair is necessary vs FFE toss. Sack a slow OL at 7:00 and build a spore at each base if your scouting indicates DT or Stargate. | ||
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
On October 27 2011 05:55 sdrawkcab_ wrote: Hi! I'm a plat Z player and I'm struggling in ZvP lategame, I just feel lost and unsure what to do when that P get that big ball of Sentries, Stalkers and Colossi. What composition is good against this, what sort of engangement should I pursue? Here is a replay of a game I just played and didnt feel good at all: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/14690 Felt good about the opening, I think I should have taken my third a lot faster. Am I also teching too slowly? One reason for that could be that I don't really know what I am teching towards. So when facing that Gateway/Robo mix, what should I tech to? Tried to do a big drop, destroy the infrastructure then remax a new army. But this did not really work the way I hoped it would. So, any advice for a fellow Zerg? I know that I was at a great advantage, but didn't feel confident enough to attack. Another thing I've faced a lot lately is that annoying 6pool/spine rush, and I seem unable to defend it. Even when I see it coming I just can't win. What is the correct response to this rush? Is 14pool to late? If I hatch first should I just gg at once? If protoss stays on 2/3 base and gets a 200/200 death ball before attacking, you should have a gigantic economic lead on him and wear his death ball down. Once you killed it, you can just starve him out. You should start your 3rd when P starts his natural and 4th/5th when he starts his 3rd. When you're 200/200 and floating 3000+ minerals, you can start throwing down spine crawlers. If he gets to a position where he can forcefield off your army while killing your expansions, you've basically lost already. Engage him while he's on open ground. In 200 vs 200 army fights, I think infestor/brood lords are the best combination. But for that you need tons of gas. | ||
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
On October 27 2011 05:55 sdrawkcab_ wrote: Another thing I've faced a lot lately is that annoying 6pool/spine rush, and I seem unable to defend it. Even when I see it coming I just can't win. What is the correct response to this rush? Is 14pool to late? If I hatch first should I just gg at once? Forgot that part. Try to mineral walk and surround his lings, and keep building drones. Stall the engagement until his spine is ~60-70% complete. Then attack with everything and you should have enough workers to kill him by then. If the spine gets up try to stall even more until you get your own lings up before attacking. Hatch first should lose to this, but you can try the same tactics with stalling and attacking when the spine is a little more than half way done. | ||
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MASSivezTV
United States289 Posts
heres an explanation of how my match ups are going, pls help if u can: ZvZ: suddenly became godly at it overnight, dont ask me how i have no idea. ZvT: used to be my best. I struggle with my timings now, have hard time holding marine / medivac / siege tank pushes with stim and combat shield mid game. i usually have ling bling muta out by then. ZvP: i honestly have no fucking clue of how to play this match up anymore. lings suck once colo get out and roach hydra corruptor is kinda dead. mutas also fail me as well. HELP! thats a basic summary. if you can help with ZvT and ZvP itd be great. Ty<3 | ||
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