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How the almighty fuck do I stop this stupid 3 to 6 rax all-in marine bullshit that is so commonplace now.
If I drone, I die.
If I don't drone, I die later.
Spines are useless.
Banes are a joke if they kite or spread.
Infestor are too late.
Mutas are too late.
It's just wave after wave of fucking MARINES. They wall in, drop a bunch of rax and start pumping. When they have a group large enough to kite well, they move (10 or so marines). From there it just gets worse and worse. I feel like I have to make lings to hold but they die pretty easily. This also takes away from my drone count and eventually their econ just rockets. Roaches are also pretty useless.
Anyone dealing with this? I've talked to some Ts after games and they all seem to feel they've "found a great strat" that pressures better than hellions (sooner, more versatile, probably more damage).
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Hello,
what can i do when i get cannon contained?
i tried to make an nydus but its take to long and was defended well -.-
i was getting 14 pool 14 gas but there was no way ma lings come out for his first cannon he just builds me in with cannons and then went blink stalker to punish me.
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On October 28 2011 09:36 Carafai wrote:
Hello,
what can i do when i get cannon contained?
i tried to make an nydus but its take to long and was defended well -.-
i was getting 14 pool 14 gas but there was no way ma lings come out for his first cannon he just builds me in with cannons and then went blink stalker to punish me.
opening with 11pool/18hatch provides lings early enough to prevent this. without replay i couldnt say specifically, but i send my second OL to my natural to spot for this kindo f stuff. if you see toss drop a pylon send several droens out to stop it, similar to how you would stop a bunker rush with jsut drones
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On October 28 2011 08:43 Mjolnir wrote:
How the almighty fuck do I stop this stupid 3 to 6 rax all-in marine bullshit that is so commonplace now.
If I drone, I die.
If I don't drone, I die later.
Spines are useless.
Banes are a joke if they kite or spread.
Infestor are too late.
Mutas are too late.
It's just wave after wave of fucking MARINES. They wall in, drop a bunch of rax and start pumping. When they have a group large enough to kite well, they move (10 or so marines). From there it just gets worse and worse. I feel like I have to make lings to hold but they die pretty easily. This also takes away from my drone count and eventually their econ just rockets. Roaches are also pretty useless.
Anyone dealing with this? I've talked to some Ts after games and they all seem to feel they've "found a great strat" that pressures better than hellions (sooner, more versatile, probably more damage).
Anytime you can scout rax allins you collect your freewin
You do have time to drone up, but what you want to have are speedlings and banelings if you have enough time, you should never lose to this 1 base marine nonsense if you scout.
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On October 28 2011 08:43 Mjolnir wrote:
How the almighty fuck do I stop this stupid 3 to 6 rax all-in marine bullshit that is so commonplace now.
If I drone, I die.
If I don't drone, I die later.
Spines are useless.
Banes are a joke if they kite or spread.
Infestor are too late.
Mutas are too late.
It's just wave after wave of fucking MARINES. They wall in, drop a bunch of rax and start pumping. When they have a group large enough to kite well, they move (10 or so marines). From there it just gets worse and worse. I feel like I have to make lings to hold but they die pretty easily. This also takes away from my drone count and eventually their econ just rockets. Roaches are also pretty useless.
Anyone dealing with this? I've talked to some Ts after games and they all seem to feel they've "found a great strat" that pressures better than hellions (sooner, more versatile, probably more damage).
I think it is largely dependant on the map, a short rush distance can flood so many marines that banelings just cannot handle it effectively anymore and with good marine micro, banelings are quite ineffective
it is very easy to handle on some maps and some are extremely difficult
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On October 28 2011 08:43 Mjolnir wrote:
How the almighty fuck do I stop this stupid 3 to 6 rax all-in marine bullshit that is so commonplace now.
If I drone, I die.
If I don't drone, I die later.
Spines are useless.
Banes are a joke if they kite or spread.
Infestor are too late.
Mutas are too late.
It's just wave after wave of fucking MARINES. They wall in, drop a bunch of rax and start pumping. When they have a group large enough to kite well, they move (10 or so marines). From there it just gets worse and worse. I feel like I have to make lings to hold but they die pretty easily. This also takes away from my drone count and eventually their econ just rockets. Roaches are also pretty useless.
Anyone dealing with this? I've talked to some Ts after games and they all seem to feel they've "found a great strat" that pressures better than hellions (sooner, more versatile, probably more damage).
In low numbers, lings are much more effective against marines, especially if they are well split. You can dedicate a quick macro hatch to lings, and pay less attention to gas. You absolutely NEED ling speed though. It's a simple matter of holding the all-in, because he will be behind in production, army, tech, and expansions.
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Background Info: Mid-master Z that uses a roach/ling style in zvp with constant upgrades, often resulting in a very, very potent mid game, more often than not ending the game. Seems to be better vs Forge FE than 1/3 gate expo. Not sure why.
Main Problem: +1/+1 timing attack PvZ, where the toss gets +1 melee and +1 armor...and owns my face. http://drop.sc/49881 is the most recent example. This is the only strategy I've lost to this season vs toss (so far); both times off 1 or 3 gate expo, and resulting in an attack that overruns me with extremely powerful units, despite me having +1/+1 roaches.
Perhaps its the fact that I'm playing like I'm up against a FFE when I should respond differently when I scout 1/3 gate, but, either way, it's hard to keep up in drones if I'm not just powering. As such, I don't know how to modify by strategy in order to compensate for the offensive power of the 1/3 gate opener. I'm thinking I may have to cut drones sooner and start pumping roaches and lings, maybe drop an upgrade. Honestly, I just don't know :/ Perhaps I've just forgotten how to play vs 1/3 gate expo...since every toss now just FFE's on every map...
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Philippines89 Posts
1) worker transfer and general management
People say that I should have around 60 drones. So that's ideally 18 on gas and 42 on minerals on 3 bases. The way I look at it I go:
base 1: 18 on minerals, 6 on gas
base 2: 18 on minerals, 6 on gas
base 3: 6 on minerals, 6 on gas
AMIDOINITRITE?
2) Also, assuming that you aren't getting molested by the opponent, is it advisable if I only saturate my 2nd and 3rd so that if they fuck over my 3rd I still have patches of minerals left in my main?
3) how you maximize gold minerals mining? is 2 drones per mineral block fine?
4) Can anyone please redirect me to a guide on how to overlord drop while playing standard?
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16/16/10 would be better saturation but it barely matters, you also dont need ti take all that gas depending on strat you are going, and you want between 70-85 drones generally for the late mid game, you will lose some through harassment and its fine if you dont replace them if you dont have expos to send them to.
Like vs P I like to go 4 gas off 4 hatches and go roach ling until a bit later when I will drone some more and take more gasses while going towards infestors or broods.
Vs terrans I like to take all 6 gasses sooner to pay for quick upgrades and lots of mutas.
ZvZ I have been like quicker gasses at my third as well for mutas or sometimes infestors and hydras.
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Master Zerg here, biggest issue that's been bugging me for the whole of last week was:
How can i handle a Terran mech push (hellion,tanks, thors with scv repair)? roaches seem to melt to tanks, while mutas fall to upgraded thors very quickly. would definitely appreciate some help here 
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On October 28 2011 19:57 Theifzz wrote:Master Zerg here, biggest issue that's been bugging me for the whole of last week was: How can i handle a Terran mech push (hellion,tanks, thors with scv repair)? roaches seem to melt to tanks, while mutas fall to upgraded thors very quickly. would definitely appreciate some help here
I handle it with a few roaches (5-10) and a lot of lings. I get a quick +1 melee attacks and then I get armor. Later on I add some Mutas. I've never had trouble with any mech push doing this. Also I use a macro hatch before I get a third if I know a push is coming. (Unless the third is as easily defendable as a macro hatch would be, then I'd get a third and not saturate it until I was safe)
You'll need to get a good engagement though, obviously can't run the lings straight in a line into tanks and helions through a choke or something. Spread your units out and get somewhat of a surround. =)
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On October 28 2011 19:57 Theifzz wrote:Master Zerg here, biggest issue that's been bugging me for the whole of last week was: How can i handle a Terran mech push (hellion,tanks, thors with scv repair)? roaches seem to melt to tanks, while mutas fall to upgraded thors very quickly. would definitely appreciate some help here
Also I heard some pros get alot of burrowed infestors that spam infested marines along with a ton of roaches. (About 5 infestors with full energy).
Nestea handles it with mass banelings.
Rushing broodlords is probably the safest bet. Make sure to just counter attack when your broods are not out yet. Get roach support at first, replenish with lings once the hellions are dead.
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I'm having trouble with early tank pushes, the ones that come just before mutas are out. Whats the best counter? Having extra units for safety, rather than just pure drones? Better creep spread? Earlier baneling nest?
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On October 28 2011 21:08 Smowy wrote:
I'm having trouble with early tank pushes, the ones that come just before mutas are out. Whats the best counter? Having extra units for safety, rather than just pure drones? Better creep spread? Earlier baneling nest?
Banes nest is possible, but not necessary, be sure to make more than just drones.
Zerg play these days is: 2 base sat (44 drones) -> Lair -> Macro hatch + Army -> 3rd -> Mutas.
Usually the 2 base tank push will come around 8 mins, so that's just enough to get full sat and a handful of zerglings. Place the zerglings in a nice spot to either attack before siege, make a nice flank or make a huge counter attack.
Just put your 3rd as soon as you have enough minerals (You will have enough pretty soon after the macro hatch). Then make lings until your 3rd is up.
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On October 28 2011 21:08 Smowy wrote:
I'm having trouble with early tank pushes, the ones that come just before mutas are out. Whats the best counter? Having extra units for safety, rather than just pure drones? Better creep spread? Earlier baneling nest?
You can determine how early the tank push will be from a few factors:
1) find out how many marines were made before the reactor is started for the factory swap (usually 2-3)
2) find out how many hellions have been made. (usually T will put pressure on with 4 hellions)
If the standard 3 marines were made in the beginning, and usual 4 hellions, the 2-3 tank, 15-19 marine push comes around 10:00 - 10:30.
If he cuts corners (fewer marines / hellions) it's worth sending in an ovie to scout (like you should anyway)
If you crush this attack then you pretty much win the game if you don't mess up somewhere.
You can beat it with just mass ling if you catch it before the seige. ling / bane works as well, but reduces your mutas.
Also, you can try to delay the attack by counter attacking when he pushes out.
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Whats everyone's opinion on opening up 11 hatch before first overlord?
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hello everyone,
i've recently switched from protoss to zerg. i would like to know, if it is possible to go for hatch first in zvz ( 16 hatch, 16 gas 16 pool) and defend against a baneling rush ( if executed perfectly obviously)? If yes, what im i supposed to do concerning unit positioning and build order? thanks in advance 
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On October 28 2011 22:10 TheGreenMachine wrote:
Whats everyone's opinion on opening up 11 hatch before first overlord?
my 2cent opinion (low master):
- not useful in z v t, in which you can 15 hatch, which will lead to a better economy.
- pretty likely impossible in z v p due to the threat of pylon block and/or cannon rush. but maybe by doing the hatch earlier, you will manage to make lings early enough (don't think though, for instance if the toss puts 3 pylons down the ramp of your main)
- I don't know in z v z... I guess it will depend on the pool and gas timing you chose with the hatch first; but maybe the most relevant match up to experiment in this regard.
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On October 28 2011 22:29 Macpo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 22:10 TheGreenMachine wrote:
Whats everyone's opinion on opening up 11 hatch before first overlord? my 2cent opinion (low master): - not useful in z v t, in which you can 15 hatch, which will lead to a better economy. - pretty likely impossible in z v p due to the threat of pylon block and/or cannon rush. but maybe by doing the hatch earlier, you will manage to make lings early enough (don't think though, for instance if the toss puts 3 pylons down the ramp of your main) - I don't know in z v z... I guess it will depend on the pool and gas timing you chose with the hatch first; but maybe the most relevant match up to experiment in this regard.
Well in my build the hatchery finishes before your spawning pool even starts. It starts with 11 hatch, 14 pool 14 gas 18 overlord 18/20 queen.
Its unique posting a thread about it within a week or two once we get more replays against grandmasters.
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Random tip.
When being 6 pooled, you are usually limited by larvae and or supply instead of minerals. I always drone scout so i have a drone by their base at some point. So it is sometimes cool to build a spine at their base.
It has done wonders for me at mid-high masters, as the 6pooler usually doesn't even creen at their base once his lings reach yours. They just build either more lings or drones with the hotkeys.
So if you put a spine in their base you could do a lot of damage to either compensate whatever damage he does or even kill him right there.
You could ideally put it somewhere hidden in the fog of war, or at least under an overlord so he will not see it in the minimap, or anywhere.
the thing is... having only 6 or 7 drones in there means taking 3 or more drones away from mining (depending on how much it takes him a spine is being built at his base) cuts his income in half. If he notices you can always cancel and rebuild somewhere else. The minerals lost hurt him more than it hurts you.
And best of all, cheezing a cheezer is very rewarding  .
I've survived 6 pools with only... say.. 3 drones remaining, which would have lost me the game. Then they go back to their base and there is a spine behind the mineral line. GG bitch
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EPT
