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ZvT mass thor counter? - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Azn_Christian
Profile Joined September 2010
United States153 Posts
September 20 2010 07:58 GMT
#41
i'm confused on how they could mass thors.....wouldn't u magic box/muta harras/take out scvs/take out tech lab?? Or did you go land and just didn't push/harass?
Life appears to me too short to be spent in nursing animosity or registering wrongs." - Charlotte Bronte, Jane Eyre
OPSavioR
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden1465 Posts
September 20 2010 08:13 GMT
#42
Ultralisks?
i dunno lol
brotosterone
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States260 Posts
September 20 2010 14:36 GMT
#43
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=153646

A recent thread was brought up last week that is relevant: Using mutalisks and corrupters.
Avril_Lavigne
Profile Joined April 2010
United States446 Posts
September 20 2010 14:43 GMT
#44
whenever a terran goes thor against me, i bring along a few corruptors and corrupt them, they make them fall real easily. just use a hydra roach force. i think you'd be okay after that
DarKFoRcE
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany1215 Posts
September 20 2010 15:01 GMT
#45
I wouldnt build mutas against Thors, because if the terran notices that he will just add some vikings or build a couple of turrets when he starts pushing and then the magic box shenanigans are pretty useless

i cant really tell what to do either though as i am experimenting myself and havent really found a good way yet.
Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/PinDarKFoRcE
BobMoo
Profile Joined August 2010
United States10 Posts
September 20 2010 15:17 GMT
#46
I found roaches to be a pretty effective.

[image loading]

That's my first (and only so far) game where I fought thor hellion since I switched from toss to zerg a couple days ago, so there are definitely lots of simple things I can do to improve (like not throwing away 4 infestors), but I think the basic concept is sound. It is a diamond level game (terran has about 1150 points)
onmach
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1241 Posts
September 20 2010 15:21 GMT
#47
I've smashed smaller groups of 5 or 6 with ultras before without a problem. I meet them as soon as they are in an open area. I'm not going to let them get into my base.

I can't help but think that a terran waiting for 10 thors is a dead terran. There's just no way you can mass up that many on one base, without harassing me considering their absurd build time. I would almost say that if he got that many he deserves to win.

Another option no one has suggested that might work is dropped ultras. Get all your overlords, magic box them, move them over the thors and use the drop move trick? It would take some luck and skill, but with enough empty overlords to distract them, it might be enough to do the trick.
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
September 20 2010 15:22 GMT
#48
On September 20 2010 07:44 Servius_Fulvius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2010 07:37 Numy wrote:
On September 20 2010 07:29 Servius_Fulvius wrote:
Muta is a good choice, but as long as you control them properly. Use the magic box to ensure that the mutas don't clump up. If they do, splash damage will end them quickly.


I find muta are quite good against naked thors but dam is it risky. One mistake from you basically ends the game since 1 clump when thor mass is beyond 4/5 means half the muta are gone. I guess that's fine for pros but man there must be a better less risky way to play vs thors.


It's not as risky when you use the magic box. Hotkey all the mutas and fly them to a spot. They will clump, but when the arrive at the spot let them sit and unclump. This will create a square of mutas evenly spaced out called the magic box. Right click over the group of thors. When directly overhead, press H for hold position. The mutas will keep formation thus minimizing the splash from Thors.

However, if you attack-move the mutas will clump up and get stomped.


The risk is when you are flying around. IF you don't have 100% knowledge of where his thors are you might by mistake fly clumps mutas within the massive 9 range thor blob that will rape most of your muta in one volley. The risk isn't in the direct confrontation.
Darkn3ss
Profile Joined November 2009
United States717 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-20 15:38:00
September 20 2010 15:30 GMT
#49
On September 20 2010 07:34 MforWW wrote:
TLO style hellion/thor? just GG and save yourself the time.

i've said ti before and i'll say it again, thors are too versatile and effective, particularly when they're being repaired (aka god-mode thors).


And if you also throw like 5-6 tanks in there............

They need to scrap planetary fortress!!!

On September 20 2010 17:13 OPSavioR wrote:
Ultralisks?


Depends on map... Most maps aren't friendly to zerg ground...

PS:
I wish they didn't break replays from Beta. I played my friend (B- Brood War Terran) TvZ (He was Z and I was T.) I don't have a clue how to play Terran. I've only played Terran twice! I built a shitload of thor hellion and brough scv's to repair. 1-1 150/200 Thor/Hellion/Raven raped 3-3 200/200 Ultra/Hydra/Ling. It was also 3 base vs 6... so it doesn't matter if you "outmacro" Terran cuz you still get rolled. (Besides Terran can easily outmacro you atm...)
Dont quote me boy, cuz I aint saying shhh...
mathemagician1986
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany549 Posts
September 20 2010 15:41 GMT
#50
On September 20 2010 07:35 AlaskaYoung wrote:
I've never seen a zvt where the terran has more than 10 thors. Personally I'd never let it get to that point, and I don't think any other decent zerg player would. Hell, I don't even think a terran player would sit in his base until he got over 10 thors. If he hasn't pushed out with 5 or 6 and the hellions/marines, then there are some serious shenanigans going on.

Also, nobody would make just lings or just mutas. The combination of slings/blings/mutas works wonderfully as long as there are no tanks around. I'd gladly trade armies in that respect because I know that I'd have him beat at 1 base compared to my 3.

Do you have a replay of a zvt where the terran turtles up to over 10 thors? I'd like to see it happen without the T dying beforehand.


http://rts-sanctuary.com/replay.php?190370
http://rts-sanctuary.com/replay.php?190369

darkforce didn't pick the best positions to fight, but on those maps, there aren't any.
Matiz_pl
Profile Joined August 2008
Poland163 Posts
September 20 2010 16:21 GMT
#51
1450 diamond zerg here roach+infestors into ultras.
Yea for long time I was like "NP is totally useless omgawd 12 sec" but actually once I tried it and I totally owned my opponent. I was like 900 diamond back then so I thought it doesnt work on higher levels or something but I improved a lot recently and it still works insanely good.
Here's rep of my ladder game against 1400 diamond terran on metalopolis on close positions. He does some weird early contain into 2 base thor+hellion :

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=150517

There's timing when your infestors dont have 100 energy yet and he's kinda able to attack. It's rather small but it's close point then. This time he didnt attack at this point so I was pretty confident that I'd win. Even without ultras, roaches+infestors do brilliant job. 3-4 mutas early are good to get some map control, delay his push and force him to actually make thors instead of tanks. If he gets high on tanks, it's good to think about faster ultras or more mutas.
I watched that replay of darkforce against demuslim and I really believe that those infestors would help. Even those 12 secs is decent amount of time to turn the tide in battle.
"Competitive gaming consists of one and only one rule. You use what wins. " - FuumaMonou
EnderCN
Profile Joined May 2010
United States499 Posts
September 20 2010 16:25 GMT
#52
Mass roaches counter mass thors pretty hard if you can burrow to them and pop up right on them. If they get a bunch of shots off first it isn't quite as easy.
TibblesEvilCat
Profile Joined March 2010
United Kingdom766 Posts
September 20 2010 16:32 GMT
#53
i've only found the counter to be infestors and speelings with speedlords as a screen (fuk up the ai), fungal grouoth almost kill's scv's striaght off
Live Fast Die Young :D
dacthehork
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2000 Posts
September 20 2010 16:32 GMT
#54
There are a lot of endgame situations Z can do absolutely nothing against T in.

You can carve out 3-4 base as T, mass PF/turret and around 150 supply you become impossible to break. It's just a broken matchup past midgame if the T is abusive enough.

BC/viking/Raven is even more abusive and basically impossible for Z to kill, even 0/0.
Warturtle - DOTA 2 is KING
BlueLobster
Profile Joined May 2010
Singapore205 Posts
October 09 2010 03:49 GMT
#55
mass roach doesn't works. cause he will add a couple of marauders in.
emc
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3088 Posts
October 09 2010 03:54 GMT
#56
mass thor is very, very hard to deal with as Zerg. I think the only real option out there is Neural Parasite but the timer on it just makes it painful and hard to use. NP is really the only thing I've found that helps even the odds, if you get one infestor for each thor then you are already saving money.
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-09 06:59:43
October 09 2010 06:26 GMT
#57
On October 09 2010 12:49 BlueLobster wrote:
mass roach doesn't works. cause he will add a couple of marauders in.

OK man, did you know that "a couple marauders" don't really do anything to Roach? He needs a butt-ton to counter them, Marauders are only good vs Thor because they can endlessly kite them and never get hit, if you let the Roaching player destroy the rest of your army while you kite with Marauders they will simply reinforce with a billion Zerglings. I hope this isn't just some of your "hard counter" theory?
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
GoodNewsJim
Profile Joined February 2010
United States122 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-09 06:36:32
October 09 2010 06:34 GMT
#58
Ultra and only fight in the open, and infestor/zergling/baneling. Don't attack thors with banelings of course, but their support units. Fungal growth anything in a big ball, so ultras can cleave it too. Its synergistic because the fungal hits a ton of units, and units in a ball get AOE damage from ultras.

As I see it now, 200/200 Terran vs Zerg is about where you fight. If you fight in a choke, Terran can win with Thors. If you fight in the open, Zerg can win with Ultras. Zerg has the advantage of replenishing army, but Terran has an advantage it can walk Planetary Fortresses as it advances.

My ~1000 Diamond friend I'm coaching is seeing a lot of 200 vs 200 army battles(both sides still have workers crowding supply)

And as some people are saying, a heavy roach composition can win too... But I always think thats risky because if Terran throws in stimmed marauders or siege tanks, they can tilt the battle some against pure roach.
God is real. Jesus is LORD
vnlegend
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States1389 Posts
October 09 2010 06:46 GMT
#59
I don't see where there is a problem.

Corruptors + broodlords counter everything T and P in the game. Zergs can easily turn the tide of any battle by coming out with broodlords. The Thors aren't gonna reach the broodlords because broodlings are in the way, and will keep coming indefinitely. They are also not light units.

Roaches/lings also do extremely well vs mech.
Marines > everything
aebriol
Profile Joined April 2010
Norway2066 Posts
October 09 2010 07:06 GMT
#60
I normally go roach + a few mutas into brood lords, add in sling bling for mm. And yes, mostly I do lose
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