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ibreakurface
United States664 Posts
The issue isnt the thors, its the fact you let him make w/e high tiered unit he wants and however many he wants. It would be like me complaining because i lost to 15 carriers and a mothership. Also 20 thors is redonk for testing, you will never see 20 thors in a a game. | ||
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absalom86
Iceland1770 Posts
Mass thor has no vulnerabilties and is extremely easy to tech to, And I HAAATE IT! | ||
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skindzer
Chile5114 Posts
On October 10 2010 12:06 obsid wrote: @skindzer I agree on the infesters. I think magic boxed mutas do work to a point, magic boxed mutas are good harrasing, and will make sure the terran doesnt move out for a long time When you harass most of the time you wont really be using "magic box" except when trying to put turrets down but if you aim for attacking mules/svc your mutas will clump and theyll also clump when you fly away, if hes going for mass thors hell leave at least 2 on his main to help protect so harassing becomes really risky. Obviously if you can pull it go ahead but still, i was referring to the fact that magic box mutas is not the way to FIGHT against a mass thor army. There are problems with this, first is that in choke points, your army will be worse then his there (well then dont fight in choke points is easy to say, but not always easy to do, such as on scrap station where the center path through the rocks is a choke point all the way to your base). The second is this tends to fail a lot near the 200/200 limit though, as at that point his army WILL be more powerful then yours.. Well fighting in chokes against Terran will end in defeat pretty much always unless bio and even then it is a hard fight. Also i didnt mean to say to stay on roachling till 200/200. You need to start pumping ultras or Blords (i prefer ultras because of Blords build time) around 150/160 supply. Also when fighting on Scrap Station it is possible to surround on the blocked passageway you just need to take "the long road". Still i prefer to never engage untill they get out of the "passage". After all they need to do it if they want to attack your hatcheries. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On October 10 2010 15:39 skindzer wrote: When you harass most of the time you wont really be using "magic box" except when trying to put turrets down but if you aim for attacking mules/svc your mutas will clump and theyll also clump when you fly away, if hes going for mass thors hell leave at least 2 on his main to help protect so harassing becomes really risky. Obviously if you can pull it go ahead but still, i was referring to the fact that magic box mutas is not the way to FIGHT against a mass thor army. I harrass with magic boxed mutas quite often and it works pretty well. Thors can't be everywhere at once and magic box lets you snipe a few SCVs with probably 0-1 muta deaths so it's quite strong in my opinion. Also I really would stay on Roach-ling until 200/200, you're teching wayyyy too fast if you get Broodlords at like 150 supply and this is exactly when he has his timing to kill you. | ||
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Dragonblood21
United States139 Posts
On October 10 2010 15:49 Shikyo wrote: I harrass with magic boxed mutas quite often and it works pretty well. Thors can't be everywhere at once and magic box lets you snipe a few SCVs with probably 0-1 muta deaths so it's quite strong in my opinion. Also I really would stay on Roach-ling until 200/200, you're teching wayyyy too fast if you get Broodlords at like 150 supply and this is exactly when he has his timing to kill you. I second both of these. For destroying depots, turrets near SCVs, the armory, whatever, people should use magic boxed mutas. Thors have quite a crazy range on their air attack and can easily launch one barrage by the time you have to see and react to them. That one barrage from a few thors can hurt your mutas severely, maybe even kill a few. Magic boxing helps quite a lot. Teching to broodlords I find a great thing to do when you hit 200/200 and the first giant battle is over. You should have the economy to support broodlords, the tech into them would be smoother, and it's a great way to mix up your army composition and throw the terran off balance. | ||
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stink123
United States241 Posts
A) They are hard to mass. Long build time, expensive, and require tech lab. B) They are slow. The only zerg units that the Thor can catch up to is the overlord and broodlord. What this means is that if you want to kill thors, you destroy the thor's support and reinforcements first. Base trading is also a good option since zerg should have more bases, you will kill him before he kills you. Or you can wait until he meets your crawlers, and you flank and kill him (maybe with pulled drones). Or if thats not possible or the location is bad, you can try to slowly wither them down by massing and attacking. Ultralisks fare the best versus Thors in a straight up fight, but its much easier to just slowly pick the terran ball apart or just crush him with a larger army. Another minor weakness of the thor is that they usually target air units first, so having magic boxed mutas take the first shots can help, provided you're trying to kill him with your ground army. | ||
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Dragonblood21
United States139 Posts
On October 10 2010 16:11 stink123 wrote: Ultralisks fare the best versus Thors in a straight up fight Definitely not. Broodlords are far better against thors in a "straight up fight" than ultras could even dream of being. In fact I'd go as far as saying ultras aren't very good vs thors at all. | ||
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JTWStephens
United States60 Posts
I think early the early Thor push is a balance issue and will probably be addressed in a future patch once it becomes more standard. | ||
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Lobber
Canada414 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Of course it can be beaten but in my opinion this is an issue, why is it that Thor has no obvious weakness like every other ~300/200 unit in the game? | ||
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teamamerica
United States958 Posts
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Benshin88
United States183 Posts
It just withstands anything because Marauders can tank damage with those medivacs. lings/banes/ hydras get one shoted by marauders by the time it gets to the marauders because of those tanks. Roaches get destroyed by stimmed marauders. Mutas dont work. Broods don't work. Ultras get raped by marauders. INfestors get raped by tanks. The only way to beat these armies is to Surround and pray that all your men attack at the same time which will allow you to use your infestors. Going head on = death and loss. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On October 10 2010 17:53 teamamerica wrote: Because collusi completely rape ground and ultras completely rape mech units/do decent melee damage? completely rape = is quite mediocre and loses in cost-efficiency? Okay. Actually Thor is better at both but that's beside the point What I mean is, you can build Thors always, it takes no strategy, no decision-making. I wouldn't go mass Colossus vs a player who masses Mutas. You can build Thors vs that. They're going Hydras? Thor. Roaches? Thor is still good, just add some stuff. Lings? Thors and Hellions. It's never a bad idea and always good, I really don't think that that's how a unit should be. You can always build it and it's never the wrong decision. | ||
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Lighioana
Norway466 Posts
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EnderCN
United States499 Posts
Infestors are good to have no matter what units Terran are using. | ||
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Promises
Netherlands1821 Posts
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eu.exodus
South Africa1186 Posts
I had +- 6 or so thors and bit of bio and medivacs. I wont even lie, at first it was just an army trade but then i couldnt keep up with how quickly zerg can rebuild an army. he had 5 ultras back on the field with more infestors a lot quicker than i could regain any resistance to what he got back so quickly. Banshees didnt help much either | ||
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stansa
8 Posts
I know old thread but a question What you do against Thor+Marrauder in ZvT? I tried ling/infestor/broodlords. after first engagement complete army died of him, I couldnt start a real attack because I had to max out again too. When I reached his base with lings/bls, there were already 10 vikings popped out. so BLs is not an option imo, what else could I do? roaches doesnt do well against marrauder, mass zerglings die to 8 thors+marrauder, thors just dont fall quick enough. infestors are quiet useless too against stim marrauders and since NP gets nerfed I dont want to try that out against thors. just stupid that a 2 base terran max out faster against a 4 base zerg, nice balance. User was warned for this post | ||
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Ryndika
1489 Posts
e: this is more like mid to early late game strategy, later you could switch to t3 or another comp. | ||
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Granter
Sweden64 Posts
ultralisks>>>>>>thor. In bigger numbers it's even more effektive as the ultras will hit more thors on the same time. Lings, something like 70-80lings can take down 10thors without a problem and in the case of not killing all of them you can just make another 70-80lings fast as shit and do it all over again and kill the thors | ||
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