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This rush is based on how units path, it could be considered a bug. Anyways I'll start by explaining the pathing trick.
Have you ever noticed how when you send a drone to scout a Terran base it wont always go up the ramp. Then when you get to the top there is always a full wall off. The reason this happens is that units take into account buidlings not actually in their vision when deciding how to path. So even though you can't see that there is a full wall off your drone does and doesn't even try to go up the ramp. This does not effect just drones however but all ground units and all move commands such as attack move.
Next I had to figure out where units went when they cant reach there destination due to a full wall off. Well it turns out that they try to get as close as possible to the point you commanded them to move to. But close as in air distance not ground distance. So they may go someone thats actually very far away from where you commanded them to go by ground but fairly close by air.
Now I ask you, what makes Terran's so hard to attack in the early game, ..., its there wall. Now instead of having to bust it with Banelings or roaches wouldn't it be nice if they just let you in. That is the goal of this strategy, to walk into the Terran's base.
The goal of this rush is to have your lings run into your opponents base whenever your opponent breaks there wall for some reason, whether its by lowering a supply depot to let a scout out or lifting a rax to swap add ons. So far this has been tested on blistering sands but it could work on other maps. It works by telling your lings to patrol between a point in your opponents base and a point thats on the other side of the cliff. Since the lings know they cant get into the base they will just run around a bit on the lower edge of the cliff, trying to get close line wise to the point in the base. Finally when your opponent breaks the wall for some reason you lings will know instantly and run into the base.
This is the lings on patrol
![[image loading]](http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/481/patrol.png)
This is then running into the opponents base when they swap add-ons
![[image loading]](http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/9614/runby.png)
This is a Replay of the rush in action(Note this game was set up to display the rush)
Pathing Rush Replay
Someone was having trouble getting replay so here's an alternate link for the Replay.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-148120.jpg)
On a side note there are probably other uses for this trick, for example if you only set 1 ling on patrol you could know a couple second sooner when your opponent was pushing out, than if you had one at the base of their ramp, as you would know the exact time they lowered there depot.
Edit: This is a game where I used this trick to scout what tech my opponent was going. Admitadly its pretty dum to hide a starport at your choke but regardless this allowed me to prepare for it easily. Look at 5:20 to see this happening.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-149466.jpg)
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You sir are a god amongst men!
I definitely plan on using this to get a scout on T.
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Wow this is really great, Thx for the tip
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that's a neat trick. it amazes me how this game evolves more every day.
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I could see this becoming standard play, that is, until terran starts expecting it and setting traps/ fake outs, or scouting for the ling ball before pushing out. Either way though its a win-win since each of those scenarios is time spent by the terran. Does this also work when a unit (zealot in zvp) is used to complete a wall? I wanna test this out asap, LOVE hearing about new discoveries such as this!
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Very nice. Just something a terran player needs to be wary off 
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On September 11 2010 17:31 Torment wrote:
Does this also work when a unit (zealot in zvp) is used to complete a wall?
No, the zerglings would patrol into the zealot and attack.
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brilliant ^^
now i hope blizzard realize they must fix this so units dont know where buildings are without the player knowing
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On September 11 2010 17:49 MorroW wrote:
brilliant ^^
now i hope blizzard realize they must fix this so units dont know where buildings are without the player knowing
This only works with walls? Don't see the problem.
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I thought they would patrol all the way up the ramp and then get shot by marines... So they don't... Interesting.
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holy shit, thansk alot dude
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If he sees the lings sitting outside his base, and moves the factory over the rax before doing the swap, your lings won't be fast enough to get into his base. Still, it's a nice trick, and one of the main reasons that I now go 9-rax reaper every game against Z.
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United States7166 Posts
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I love it! Def gonna try it out.
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It'll be interesting to see if this can become standardized. If there are exploitable positions like this on every map, then it may force the Terran player to rethink how they are designing their walls. A supply depot can easily be raised if he sees the lings coming. However, a lifted off building has to get in just the right position to land. This would work very well in conjunction with a baneling bust. That way if he uses supply depots, the banelings will have more effect. If he goes barracks/factory wall, then he'll have to be careful if he wants to lift one off.
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This should work with any unit, not just lings. Man, I have to try this with P.
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I say, great stuff . Gg !!
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O_o.
That is a very, very powerful trick right there. Out of interest, from that position you showed on Sands, will a Terran be able to get the swap off before the lings hit, assuming it is done perfectly?
Also, what happens if they fake out the wall, by dropping it then raising it instantly? Do the lings try to get into the base (and therefore get shot by marines) or do they go back the way they came as soon as it is raised again?
Later point being of extreme importance for Terrans to know how to counter this.
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Awesome thinking there. Really impressive idea. I don't see it working on to many ladder maps atm (mainly because the position were the lings are patrolling should be in los of the terra), but I will definitly try to utilize this nifty trick.
If anyone finds other maps where it's safely useable we could collect them in the first post
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Won't this be an all-in like 6pool?
I mean, having that many zerglings this early in the game is kind cheesy, if he aint droning...
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this is worthless
any terran that doesnt take ten seconds to swap an addon will block this easily (look in replay how fast he floated rax. I always float rax when factory is right above... the player in the replay floated his rax before his factory. Lol?)
Edit: for all the people praising this as a miracle please look at the replay and rofl. Seriosuly.
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On September 11 2010 18:57 MasterFischer wrote:
Won't this be an all-in like 6pool?
I mean, having that many zerglings this early in the game is kind cheesy, if he aint droning...
Ah what? He has those lings out at the same time that the Terran is about to hellion harass. Surely you want lings out when the hellion harass arrives, else you'll be turning half your drones into crawlers to cover every little point in your bases.
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Excellent trick. These are the things people are going to be thinking of over time that people haven't realised yet.
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On September 11 2010 18:00 PanzerKing wrote:
Still, it's a nice trick, and one of the main reasons that I now go 9-rax reaper every game against Z.
Dang. So skilled.
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this isn't just for ending the game with zerglings, you can use it for a quick run by for scouting with a couple zerglings if you aren't willing to sacrifice an overlord early game.
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Wow, nice trick. But, it's feel like kind of an exploit to me, i mean, you shouldn't be able to know if the wall is open without seeing it, don't you think ?
Still, nice find and great use of the game mechanics.
Could you upload the replay on a replay site please, the download doesn't seem to work any more. ( yeah i know, i say it's kind of an exploit, but i still want to know about it hu... I'm playing zerg, i need to be vicious :p ).
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rofl haha in your face Terran.
That's pretty neatly thought out but if a Terran player scouted a ling rush, y would he break his wall? Maybe to let the scout back in, but that would only be for a second.
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Actually it might be worth while to only use 1 ling to tell when the Terran is switching.
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Torment: This does not work on wall off's created by a unit.
TheOracle: If you pre-lift the factory and do swap perfectly I don't believe you would have enough time to get in. If you lift a supply depot after lowering it the ling will stop going towards the wall and go back to its old location.
I'm not sure why you weren't able to download from the megaupload but whatever, I edited main article with a link to a replay site.
Lastly I did things the lazy way with this rush. I let lings run all the way from the patrol position to the wall. On the other hand if you had the APM you could only have 1 ling patrol and have all other lings on the bottom of the ramp just out of sight. When you see the ling running towards wall you manually tell the lings at the bottom of the ramp to move in saving you some moving distance. If you were doing this for scouting you could just do this with 2 lings, 1 to patrol and 1 on the bottom of the ramp.
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Awesome job. Little things like this always make the game more interesting. I see this being EXTREMELY useful as zerg.
I hope we can figure out the other maps as well.
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I think that the rush may not always be viable, but the mechanic for getting past wall-ins is fantastic. Great find.
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seems pretty nice, although i think we need to test this a few times in actual games before we really can say if it's useful or not.
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On September 11 2010 19:06 KawaiiRice wrote:
this is worthless
any terran that doesnt take ten seconds to swap an addon will block this easily (look in replay how fast he floated rax. I always float rax when factory is right above... the player in the replay floated his rax before his factory. Lol?)
Edit: for all the people praising this as a miracle please look at the replay and rofl. Seriosuly.
Agree.
Good players will either properly swap their front door when they dont have enough stuff to hold off lings or they will have enough stuff to hold off lings.
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Well, don't look at that as a "easy win trick" but more as the way to know he's opening the door. It can be useful to scout or put some pressure, keep the terran in his base while you're macro. It can't be bad obviously.
@ oesis : thanks for the upload. I just watched the replay, makes me realize how effective it can be.
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Difference being that I usually have my wall down and a scout out and I wont raise it until the units are close, this way they walk up the ramp and get some extra hits before running - it works both ways my friend.
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This might be able to solve early game scouting problems but tgeres a 90% chance it wont succeed.
Still, great find
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Neat little trick, but I cant see this working. Maybe to slip lings in to scout, but you would need like 10-15 wich are way more expensive than an overlord.
This will not win you a game.
But still interesting stuff. Keep it up!
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Maybe instead of going all-in with lings, how about using the initial lings in a standard build to note when production buildings are lifted to know when to scout up the ramp. This way you will know what addon is made, or the timings of units (hellions).
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Wow this is actually a really clever find! Thanks for sharing :DD
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This trick can be optimized. put your lings at the natural and let one ling do the patrol trick, that way you cut down on travel time and reaction time by the terran.
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This thread got me thinking about unit pathing, and interestingly sieged tanks have the same effect as buildings when a path is blocked off by them (all immobile objects must be treated the same way by the sc2 engine when calculating pathing).
If you block off a path with sieged tanks and the opposing player click-moves or a-moves behind them then the army of that player will be automatically routed around the tanks even if he cannot see them; you can effectively force an army to move in a certain way assuming he is click moving his army behind the blocking tanks (this was tested on Blistering Sands). Here are some pictures in case my explanation was unclear.
http://img101.imageshack.us/f/screenshot2010091118173.jpg/
Bit of a silly example, but this wall of tanks forces units to route round the watchtower
http://img255.imageshack.us/f/tankpathing.jpg/
The desired path of the light blue army is shown by the red arrow (intending to move to the point of the red arrow), however the green tank line causes the light blue army to be automatically routed around the xel'naga watch tower (as shown by the yellow line).
My apologies if this is already known.
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i dont play terran so i have no idea but how often do terran lift off the buildings of their wall to switch addons is it like once every few games or a sure thing most games
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was messing around with this and turned it into an all in speedling build and went 3-1. Pretty sweet find.
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This is an awesome idea. Cant wait to try out some ling attacks with this.
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On September 12 2010 01:32 Zekky wrote:This thread got me thinking about unit pathing, and interestingly sieged tanks have the same effect as buildings when a path is blocked off by them (all immobile objects must be treated the same way by the sc2 engine when calculating pathing). If you block off a path with sieged tanks and the opposing player click-moves or a-moves behind them then the army of that player will be automatically routed around the tanks even if he cannot see them; you can effectively force an army to move in a certain way assuming he is click moving his army behind the blocking tanks (this was tested on Blistering Sands). Here are some pictures in case my explanation was unclear. http://img101.imageshack.us/f/screenshot2010091118173.jpg/Bit of a silly example, but this wall of tanks forces units to route round the watchtowerhttp://img255.imageshack.us/f/tankpathing.jpg/The desired path of the light blue army is shown by the red arrow (intending to move to the point of the red arrow), however the green tank line causes the light blue army to be automatically routed around the xel'naga watch tower (as shown by the yellow line).My apologies if this is already known.
Can you do this with forcefields and auto-turrets as well?
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This is the type of stuff BW Fanboys need to see, "Oh SC2 will never make it pro, no micro, too easy, noobish game" Well this game is in its infant stages and were discovering new things every so often to make the game so much more interesting. Like now ZvT Muta/Ling isnt just A-Attack mutas into the Terran Ball now you may want to keep a magic-box up against Thors, requiring micro. All while still macro'ing and then adding more to it now the patrol rush xD. This will allow us to constantly do things with our zerglings(which we always should be) that will be beneficial in the early game and late game.
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On September 12 2010 01:49 Kyruel wrote:
i dont play terran so i have no idea but how often do terran lift off the buildings of their wall to switch addons is it like once every few games or a sure thing most games
Depends on the player. Many terrans don't feel that they need to use 2 big buildings for a wall and rather react if they see a bling bust coming. If thats the case, this will likely do nothing. If however the player uses 2 big buildings for the wall, at some timepoint he will move one big building out of the wall.
The only real timepoint I think this will help a lot is when a player uses 2 big buildings for the wall and is doing fx. hellion harass where the rax makes the fact's reactor and both buildings need to switch places. I think that window is big enough to get the slings in.
Nice catch tbh. That being said, I think this should be bug fixed, just like destructible rocks pathing when one side has destroyed em and the other hasn't seen it. I mean it's a nifty trick it really is, but I think the game engine shouldn't do the scouting for you.
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there are so many hidden tricks in this game...one of the reasons why i think its the no.1 among rts...nice job!
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Damn oesis, this is an awesome find. I had a play around with it on maps without cliffs (take Steppes as an example). Naturally you can do it on any map - but without the cliff, you're doing it in vision of the T wall. I found a way around that though by using your logic and taking it a step further. Instead of patrolling to their base, you can patrol to an arbitrary point in space that satisfies two conditions:
-When the wall is BROKEN, a spot inside the main is closest to the patrol point by air
-When the wall is SOLID, a spot in the FoW is closest to the patrole point by air
end result is exactly the same, but you can be more precise about where your lings are hiding because you don't have to rely so much on the precise points of the map.
This lets you abuse the trick on maps without cliffs - example screenshot:
http://img215.imageshack.us/f/screenshot2010091203560.jpg/
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That's thinking outside the box!
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+1. This is a very clever use of the engine. I am quite impressed.
I imagine a lot of interesting tactics can branch from this. Keep up the good work!
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hah, nice why you didnt called it "oesis rush"? ;}
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That is fucking genius. Thanks for the OP!
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On September 11 2010 18:00 PanzerKing wrote:
If he sees the lings sitting outside his base, and moves the factory over the rax before doing the swap, your lings won't be fast enough to get into his base. Still, it's a nice trick, and one of the main reasons that I now go 9-rax reaper every game against Z.
Wait why does this make you wanna 9 -rax reaper o.O
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wow, that's crazy... I hope lots of ppl abuse this so blizz will patch it!!
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On September 12 2010 03:52 uberdeluxe wrote:
wow, that's crazy... I hope lots of ppl abuse this so blizz will patch it!!
Why would you want them to patch this? It's a cool trick that they didn't put it on purpose and is most certainly not game breaking. We need more and more things like this to really take SC2 to the level of play SC1 had.
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On September 12 2010 02:13 Kpyolysis32 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2010 01:32 Zekky wrote:This thread got me thinking about unit pathing, and interestingly sieged tanks have the same effect as buildings when a path is blocked off by them (all immobile objects must be treated the same way by the sc2 engine when calculating pathing). If you block off a path with sieged tanks and the opposing player click-moves or a-moves behind them then the army of that player will be automatically routed around the tanks even if he cannot see them; you can effectively force an army to move in a certain way assuming he is click moving his army behind the blocking tanks (this was tested on Blistering Sands). Here are some pictures in case my explanation was unclear. http://img101.imageshack.us/f/screenshot2010091118173.jpg/Bit of a silly example, but this wall of tanks forces units to route round the watchtowerhttp://img255.imageshack.us/f/tankpathing.jpg/The desired path of the light blue army is shown by the red arrow (intending to move to the point of the red arrow), however the green tank line causes the light blue army to be automatically routed around the xel'naga watch tower (as shown by the yellow line).My apologies if this is already known. Can you do this with forcefields and auto-turrets as well?
I just tested this quickly in the "Hard Counter" custom map, Raven Auto-turrets have the same rerouting effect as siegetanks but forcefields do not.
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Oh, wow. I always noticed that units tended to gather close to the move point if they can't get through a wall, but I never thought to use the patrol command to have them detect when a wall goes down.
I love you.
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This is really, really interesting. I wonder what other applications this could have. An interesting find indeed.
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Just to add: You could've won earlier if you microed lings under the barracks and factory so that they couldn't land.
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CLEVER GIRL.....
![[image loading]](http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/11300000/Raptor-Eye-jurassic-park-11355414-500-333.jpg)
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great find. great way to punish overconfident terran players like the one in the replay. also,
On September 12 2010 01:32 Zekky wrote:This thread got me thinking about unit pathing, and interestingly sieged tanks have the same effect as buildings when a path is blocked off by them (all immobile objects must be treated the same way by the sc2 engine when calculating pathing). If you block off a path with sieged tanks and the opposing player click-moves or a-moves behind them then the army of that player will be automatically routed around the tanks even if he cannot see them; you can effectively force an army to move in a certain way assuming he is click moving his army behind the blocking tanks (this was tested on Blistering Sands). Here are some pictures in case my explanation was unclear. http://img101.imageshack.us/f/screenshot2010091118173.jpg/Bit of a silly example, but this wall of tanks forces units to route round the watchtowerhttp://img255.imageshack.us/f/tankpathing.jpg/The desired path of the light blue army is shown by the red arrow (intending to move to the point of the red arrow), however the green tank line causes the light blue army to be automatically routed around the xel'naga watch tower (as shown by the yellow line).My apologies if this is already known.
that is messed up. obviously running into a siege line like that is suicide but pathing should definitely not behave like that.
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I've noticed that they seem to have foreknowledge of the wall, but I never figured to use the patrol function to abuse it, good find. I'll try this out against a T friend of mine later today and see what I can do.
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Amazing man, what can I say.
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Russian Federation1132 Posts
Very nice usage of this observation, thanks alot.
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The "trick" if you can call it that way works pretty smoothly, though i have to say, that i dont know if it is beacuse you get to much of excitment when you get your lings inside, but actually you keep trying to do that and you think you already won, when indeed even after the first attack he had more workers up, and you hadnt even expanded though he was standing back up, and you didnt even got a liar with all the gas, nor a second gas, i think that if you suceed at this, going for mutas would be just devastating, obviously keep pumping drones and zlings and basically map controlling but keep doing the "trick" it would be a pain for him, also mix blings just in case he is a bio ball and your zlings (blings) detect a chance to get in you instantly melt them, plus get in.
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Very cool. I'll definitely have to try this one out soon.
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the entire pathing thing has to be fixed
units should not react to things that they cannot see
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Anyways since the most practical use for this trick is early scouting, I have added a replay of me using it in a ladder game to scout my opponent. In the game I wasn't sure what he was doing so I put a ling on patrol. Eventually the ling moved and I saw he was putting a starport on a tech lab, so I knew he was going banshee.
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Nice. But the terrans will soon collect a bunch of units before walking out. 8 Marines will do for a early out. Or they just wall with the correct addons directly.
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EPT
