1 Gas 4-Gate in Pvp; 1 Gas Fe in PVT

Ghoul

Germany10 Posts

September 02 2010 13:55 GMT

I've been doing 1 Gas 4-Gate in PVP to great success recently, and after seeing Day[9]'s FE daily I've been doing it in PVT too. My reasoning so far is that the extra minerals from skipping gas in PVP help me get that 1-2 zealot edge when the first push comes out. Considering that every PVP on the ladder nowadays is a 4-gate vs 4-gate having one or two more units in the all-in is well worth less stalker/sentry. I'm guessing that maybe the players I'm currently facing don't micro sentries effectively enough to utilize the gas? What are your thoughts?

In PVT, the 1-gas FE follows mostly the same logic. More minerals is faster expo, yadda yadda yadda. Thoughts?

Thanks!

PVT FE:http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=145295

I don't really have a good 4gate example where my opponent truly tried to 4 gate as well.

shannn

Netherlands2891 Posts

September 02 2010 14:04 GMT

First do you have replays for your examples?
So we can check the differences (I'm a Protoss player myself but I don't 4gate anymore).

A FE against T is nowadays with most people having a 1base mind play very hard to pull off.
So im very interested in this FE vs T.

FreeZEternal

Korea (South)3396 Posts

September 02 2010 14:07 GMT

FE vs T is crazy hard because most terrans are just going to roflstomped you with a barrack units...

Ghoul

Germany10 Posts

September 02 2010 14:08 GMT

Replays Inc.

Ingruz

Italy380 Posts

September 02 2010 14:36 GMT

I think that a FE vs Terran is very risky, I doubt you can hold a timing push with 3 rax MM + stimpacks that is very common nowadays... in PvP I really dislike the 4 gates strat but sometimes it's the only way to stay alive!

ThirdStorm

21 Posts

September 02 2010 14:41 GMT

Doing a FE against a Terran 3 rack is out, don't try it. So scout and adjust accordingly.

Alejandrisha

United States6565 Posts

September 15 2010 01:32 GMT

I fe just about every single game pvt. You have to pull some probes off if he is 3 rack all in, but you will still be ahead even if you lose a bunch. I'll post a couple replays in just a minute. PvP fe seems slightly riskier, but you can pull it off as those 4 warpgates do come up pretty quickly. I haven't tried the pvp version but I've had it used against me and it seemed pretty effective, although I don't 4 warpgate in pvp unless I'm forced to

2 replays vs infantry all ins
http://screplays.com/replays/alej/8714
http://screplays.com/replays/alej/8710

1 replay vs biomech raven delayed push
http://screplays.com/replays/alej/8712

1 replay pvp where opponent fast expanded. i really like his build!
http://screplays.com/replays/alej/8716

Markwerf

Netherlands3728 Posts

September 15 2010 03:22 GMT

It's important to note that the advantage of staying on 1 gas (or no gas) is in fact quite low for protoss. Protoss hits saturation insanely fast so by going fewer gas you will have 3 more probes on minerals that are quite ineffective (beyond 16 mineral workers get drastically less efficient).

This means that a 1 gas build will only save 75 minerals + a small trickle of extra minerals against a 2 gas build, usually not enough to justify the build. Only cases imo where delaying the 2nd gas is really worth it is a FE build because you get a extra nexus that mitigates the saturation effects then.

4 gate on 1 gas sucks though imo, you will have so much less gas for only a bit more extra minerals so you might get like 3 extra zealots instead of like 3 extra sentries, not worth it.

Also because of this saturation a forge FE isn't as good as it was in BW, a sentry FE is better imo for example.

DarkPlasmaBall

United States45166 Posts

September 15 2010 03:30 GMT

Only one assimilator in PvP when you 4-gate, instead of two? So do you cut out charge or blink, sentries, or just a crapload of stalkers? Any of them seem too detrimental to not have, and the extra few minerals you gain by having three extra probes mining minerals (+75 from not getting an extra assimilator) seem inconsequential, imo. Your argument is the 1-2 zealot edge... but with extra gas and a couple more seconds, your opponent can get 1-2 stalkers instead. Unless you're 2-gate proxying (and here I see no reason to get *any* gas) or defending the proxy, I don't understand how 1 early zealot will help *that* early in the game. When do you first push? Can you post replays of this PvP play please? (I love going 4-gate stalker with a few zealots, and I go as soon as blink finishes, which is right around the time when I start to hurt for gas... off 2 assimilators.)

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1 Gas 4-Gate in Pvp; 1 Gas Fe in PVT

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