EPT[G] iEchoic's 1/1/2 Hellion Drop TvP - Page 8
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Shron
United States162 Posts
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sl0w
United States447 Posts
On August 28 2010 16:58 alphafuzard wrote: So I decided to play a few games with your build + my adjustments and I think its very nice Attached replay against 1300+ diamond protoss ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-144169.jpg) + Show Spoiler + Hellion drop, though slightly mismicroed, gives me a slight lead which is hugely magnified in the first major attack Note the continued use of the medivac which I think can also improve this build ...that guy was seriously 1300pt diamond? O.O but anyway this build seems solid...can definitely cause havoc to a toss players mineral line (you even got 10 probe kills with the mismicro). however i do think a good counter to this is fast expanding as protoss if u can scout it because there is no early aggression and only a handful of marines + banshee after the hellion drop. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On August 30 2010 09:51 Sub40APM wrote: But the game that I won it took a while to actually wear the toss down, I had 2 waves repelled: first 3 banshees and all the rines (9?) vs 4 zealots, 2 immortals and 6 stalkers and the marines died and banshees ran. The second time I had marauders and a medievac and they still got killed. Only on the 3rd time, when I brought almost as many banshees as he had stalkers he finally died. Is this just bad micro from me? Instead of focus firing everyone at the stalkers I let too much damage spread out? I think 9 marines is quite low by the time you have 3 banshees. At least 12 seems good, but it also depends on when you had raxes. I feel like I add them too late, keeping more gas but getting stim and combat shields less fast. | ||
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soki
United States40 Posts
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SkullOne
United States52 Posts
On August 30 2010 10:08 Shron wrote: I've beat this build with a fast expand. Since the terran is relying on his wall or bunkers in the early game and thus doesn't have an army that can challenge mine, I can produce more than he can when he pushes out by taking my nat early. Also, the hellion drop did half as much damage to my economy as it would have if I were on one base. It hit right about the same time charge started researching and a minute or so after my observer saw what was going on. If I see an FE while using this build, I immediately drop a tech lab on my rax and build a reactor rax instead of the second starport. I turn the Hellion drop into a 3 marauder/2 marine drop in one of the mineral lines. So the 1/1/2 opener becomes a 2/1/1 opener instead. Can't double pump Banshees but with marauders in the army they more then make up for it. That's why I like this 1/1/2 build so much. It's very versatile. Easy to transition to something else like a normal 1/1/1 or a 2/1/1 opener. | ||
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Okazaki
Canada29 Posts
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MasterFischer
Denmark836 Posts
What happens if your hellions get shut down fast by stalkers or blocked by good players? U wont get many probes.. and he will push you... How to counter mass lots + stalkers and immortal push after that? bainshees get taken down.. and marines die to mass lots And what do you do about a guy opening pheonix right off the bat against your medicalevac :/? He will lift my hellions and kill my harass.. then harass me with mass pheonix.. and do mass lots into HT against marines... suggestions?  | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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threehundred
Canada911 Posts
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MasterFischer
Denmark836 Posts
he followed up with massive chargelots and pheonix storm :D | ||
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Calidus
150 Posts
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eecs4ever
United States106 Posts
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DamageInq
United States283 Posts
Not saying it's a weak build, but it seems like a well timed early semi-allin can take you out while you're weak. | ||
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gillon
Sweden1578 Posts
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
On September 01 2010 04:01 DamageInq wrote: If I go for a 4 gate push I time it to hit the Terrans door before cloak can be researched. As soon as I see a starport techlab I can build a robo and have a obs out. I might lose some probes but a 4gate army can take down your wall and bunkers if alls you have is a ball of marines and 2-3 bunkers. Not saying it's a weak build, but it seems like a well timed early semi-allin can take you out while you're weak. You can't break a bunker aside a walled-off ramp with 10 scvs repairing it. The only things that can attack it are stalkers and sentries because zealots can't get to it. Two bunkers and you have absolutely 0 chance. Many people have tried. 4gate is actually a build this beats the easiest. | ||
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Trion
Canada291 Posts
Thanks! | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On September 01 2010 04:35 Trion wrote: I've been using this build in all my TvP for a few days now, but one problem I always have is a FE. Probes are spread out over 2 bases so the hellion drop is not as effective, and this build does not have a fast expand so I usually just get overwhelmed. My question is what do you do if the toss scouts your bunker, then goes for a FE. Editing this in to the OP under "adapting to protoss strategies would be great. Thanks! I play P and use a FE vs T every time. This hellion drop to banshees build is probably at a slight disadvantage against a FE P because a 2-base P will be able to macro up an army large enough to stop the big marine-banshee push, and from there, the P will have an econ advantage. The key, however, is the hellion drop. It's really hard to shut down 3 hellions when you're spread thin over 2 bases. This build especially gives me problems on Scrap Station where the air distance is incredibly short and your nat is miles away from your main. With hellions and banshees on the field, you can easy lose 20 probes in an instant, and you just never feel safe enough to leave your base. Given equal play, I think the 2-base P is at an advantage, but there's still a big opportunity for the T to out-micro the P and kill enough probes to pull ahead. | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
I haven't had any trouble with them yet, so I didn't think to put it in the guide, although it's definitely possible the people I played executed them poorly. Usually I drop wherever their army is not, rack up a bunch of probe kills, have a equal or superior army with higher tech and more production, and win on my first push. If I run into someone executing the strat really well, I'll post replays and brainstorm a bit more, because I haven't encountered often enough to work through the strategy of it. Definitely upload some replays of you winning/losing if you want. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On September 01 2010 05:00 iEchoic wrote: About PvT FE builds: I haven't had any trouble with them yet, so I didn't think to put it in the guide, although it's definitely possible the people I played executed them poorly. Usually I drop wherever their army is not, rack up a bunch of probe kills, have a equal or superior army with higher tech and more production, and win on my first push. If I run into someone executing the strat really well, I'll post replays and brainstorm a bit more, because I haven't encountered often enough to work through the strategy of it. This sounds about right. I've played out FE vs this 1-1-2 quite a bit at ~1k diamond. There are a lot more subtleties that go into deciding the winner and loser, but as a rule of thumb: -if the hellion drop kills 5 probes or less, P is ahead -if the hellion drops kills 8-10 probes, the game is even -if the hellion drop kills more than 10 probes, T is ahead With good map awareness and positioning, it is possible for P to shut down the hellion harass with minimal probe losses, but it's really really hard to do. With superior control, this build can easily beat a FE play. | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
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