EPTIf any diamond P players want to help me test the build against a few things (like blink stalkers), feel free to add me (iEchoic.417). I haven't ran into much stalker-heavy play on ladder yet.
[G] iEchoic's 1/1/2 Hellion Drop TvP - Page 7
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
If any diamond P players want to help me test the build against a few things (like blink stalkers), feel free to add me (iEchoic.417). I haven't ran into much stalker-heavy play on ladder yet. | ||
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Dadant
United Kingdom15 Posts
On August 28 2010 08:07 iEchoic wrote: The build MorroW and WhiteRa were using is a bit different, but similar. Yer sorry I saw it had no drop in it, however justed wondered if this might be where the build would goto next? As it justs focuses on massing the marines and the banshee's. | ||
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alphafuzard
United States1610 Posts
On August 27 2010 22:52 Shaithis wrote: The problem with an early raven is that it's equivalent to 2 banshees (6 food) of gas cost, and is a non-attacking unit. If you are forced to build one, you may as well expand and keep harassing b/c I guarantee that you will not be able to push out. actually using a pdd when attacking works wonders against both stalkers and phoenix, meaning your banshees are that much safer i have been using a build very similar to this, but opening with the korean proxy fact + 2 marine marauder opening. this hellion drop seems more stable but i will have to experiment what timing do you suggest to get stim/combat shields i would assume stim comes first | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
I was wondering, why not get the banshee first and then the drop ship? you could have a cloaked banshee in the mineral line at around 8/8:30 at the latest, and snipe of probably a good number of probes (~6?7?) before he gets a detector. Whereas on your build, if the initial drop fails to kill probes and the protoss went for a robo facility anyway he might have a probe or two ready, neutralizing your banshees biggest advantage. | ||
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TriniMasta
United States1323 Posts
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blabber
United States4448 Posts
On August 28 2010 16:13 TriniMasta wrote: For the robo thing, wouldn't most people get observers to hold off banshees? when you get banshees, you don't necessarily have to use them for cloak+killing workers. You just keep them with your army because they do insane damage. The only antiair protoss has when he has a robo are stalker+sentry | ||
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rockmonkey
Canada19 Posts
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alphafuzard
United States1610 Posts
1. When dropping hellions, hit 'd' then click on your medivac to execute a moving drop which will give your drop more tempo 2. Add your extra rax earlier to streamline the build edit: just after your first production cycle on the ports imo 3. If you put a tech lab on your first rax after bunker, you can get stim and hit a much earlier timing attack window than your pre-storm attack. This means a 25 second delay in building marines which is 1 marine, but the dps from stim makes up for this loss imo 4. Consider making a raven first to both deny scouting from an observer and to build up energy for pdd in your initial attack | ||
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yalag
38 Posts
On August 28 2010 16:58 alphafuzard wrote: A couple of things I think could improve your build 1. When dropping hellions, hit 'd' then click on your medivac to execute a moving drop which will give your drop more tempo Can you explain this a bit more? I always wanted to do the move while dropping trick. What exactly do I press? I usually click my medivac and press d on a location. Then it drops it one by one. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On August 28 2010 23:43 yalag wrote: Can you explain this a bit more? I always wanted to do the move while dropping trick. What exactly do I press? I usually click my medivac and press d on a location. Then it drops it one by one. while the medivac is moving, hit 'd' and left click the dropship and it will unload them one by one without stopping | ||
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RoyalMTGO
United States7 Posts
In this game, my opponent gets some decent Probe harassment done, and is able to scout my Factory/Bunker build before I kill his Probe. His response is to throw down a quick Robotics Facility while fast expanding off of 1 Gate. My drop is successful, and we remain even in food count despite his fast expo. But, his observer scouts my dual Starports with Tech Labs, and he pumps Observers from his Robotics Facility, and sits 4 Stalkers in both his Mineral lines. I get up an expo myself and make some Ravens while mixing in some Marauders, but my Marine/Hellion/Banshee/Raven army gets raped by mass Stalkers with three Sentries and one Immortal. ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-143750.jpg) I forgot about the Medivac that I used to drop, my macro slipped a bit after the Banshee fail, and I'm only an ~85apm player, but I'm not sure if I prefer this over a standard 1/1/1 opening. | ||
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Ogyusuh
United States52 Posts
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SoFFacet
United States101 Posts
On August 29 2010 00:15 PsychicDog wrote: I'm an 800ish Diamond Random player, and I've tried this strategy in several of my past games; I've also run into problems against mass Stalkers. In this game, I didn't execute the build perfectly (I'm Random so I don't play TvP too often) and went double Refinery early due to Probe harassment delaying the first one, however, I think the general idea of the build is executed. In this game, my opponent gets some decent Probe harassment done, and is able to scout my Factory/Bunker build before I kill his Probe. His response is to throw down a quick Robotics Facility while fast expanding off of 1 Gate. My drop is successful, and we remain even in food count despite his fast expo. But, his observer scouts my dual Starports with Tech Labs, and he pumps Observers from his Robotics Facility, and sits 4 Stalkers in both his Mineral lines. I get up an expo myself and make some Ravens while mixing in some Marauders, but my Marine/Hellion/Banshee/Raven army gets raped by mass Stalkers with three Sentries and one Immortal. I forgot about the Medivac that I used to drop, my macro slipped a bit after the Banshee fail, and I'm only an ~85apm player, but I'm not sure if I prefer this over a standard 1/1/1 opening. As I understand it you're really not supposed to harass with the Banshees in this build. Once you have 4 of them you move out with the Marines you've been producing all game from 1 Rax, and attack his front door while expoing and laying down more Rax. | ||
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lolcanoe
United States57 Posts
On about 80% of the games though, I proxy my factory and lift it into their main to build helions. This allows you to get there faster, spares your dropship for a viking instead(useful vs proxy void ray). From there, I go for the 4 banshee/marine push and expand at the same time while salvaging and moving bunker into natural. You covered the bases very well. I haven't seen an effective toss counter to this strategy, although it is weaker vs toss FE and well placed stalkers. The nature of this build prevents you from early pressure, allowing good protosses to expand and match your tech advantage with superior army numbers. | ||
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NadaSound
United States227 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Drop went well, killing 8 probes, but bad scv production (we both had 22 workers after the drop) plus not massing enough marines nor having scv ready to repair the bunker cost me the game when he attacked after killing the hellions. I then actually watched OP's replays to get it fine, and went back to playing. Fought 4 protoss, won all. I throw down 2 more raxes and a techlab on the existing one after the second port started, using my 2-3 first banshees to harass and buy time for stim/combat shields and some marauders (2 labs on new raxes), w/ cloak if drop didn't show robo. Then I proceed to push out w/ about 6 banshees and MM ball, throwing down CC at nat and constantly producing rines/banshees. If I have spare gas, I get a fusion core, otherwise I tend to skip a banshee once I have ~7 to do it. The first push generally kill my opponent, or I get some reinforcements and finish him. I fought some heavy stalkers armies, but the need to tech limits them and mass rines did the job well, also banshees are really good against colossi or to force him to bring his army away from his ramp if you them send in the back (I know on upper levels then actually won't move the entire army, but in plat it does the trick). Also, none of my opponents expanded, which allowed me to win an elimination race when one of them ran for my main while I was busy killing his backdoor rocks on Kulas Ravin. Added DPS while 2 BCs at home kept him busy a little and OC was flying toward my army. I think the true power of this build is that it's so solid and versatile, even with a low execution like mine it works wonders, especially against protosses with few or bad micro who can't apply enough pressure in the early game. Then, it's so strong ! I'd really love to find a way to incorporate a raven somewhere in the middle though, since PDD is so awesome. <3 Perhaps going for the faster 2nd gas too. | ||
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Hatsu
United Kingdom474 Posts
- If you see lots Stalkers, skip second banshee and get a Raven for PDD - dont be afraid of throwing down a second bunker to hold off a push - transition to marauders instead of BCs works great, as the toss' typical reaction to banshees is stalkers. | ||
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alphafuzard
United States1610 Posts
On August 28 2010 16:58 alphafuzard wrote: A couple of things I think could improve your build 1. When dropping hellions, hit 'd' then click on your medivac to execute a moving drop which will give your drop more tempo 2. Add your extra rax earlier to streamline the build edit: just after your first production cycle on the ports imo 3. If you put a tech lab on your first rax after bunker, you can get stim and hit a much earlier timing attack window than your pre-storm attack. This means a 25 second delay in building marines which is 1 marine, but the dps from stim makes up for this loss imo 4. Consider making a raven first to both deny scouting from an observer and to build up energy for pdd in your initial attack So I decided to play a few games with your build + my adjustments and I think its very nice Attached replay against 1300+ diamond protoss ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-144169.jpg) + Show Spoiler + Hellion drop, though slightly mismicroed, gives me a slight lead which is hugely magnified in the first major attack Note the continued use of the medivac which I think can also improve this build | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
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Khac
United States4 Posts
Microing hellions during the initial drop is key. There are always openings even if the opponent is prepared and don't just let them die if you don't have to. Ex. Played against a zerg who put a spine crawler already prepared on one side of his mineral line. All I had to do was attack from the other side and got at least 7+ drones. I always saved at least one hellion during a drop attack and went back to repair. 1-2 minutes later I would go attack with my ready to cloak banshees and it really pissed off a lot of players. Weakness of this build is to a really early expand but you should do enough damage economically during your harass to easily catch up with your own expand and fully transitioned army. I like a combination of marines, some maruaders and a few hellions with banshee support to rape pretty much anything. Some tips after playing this a couple of times: Micro your hellions during drop(don't let them die needlessly), stuttershot with your banshees when chasing an army, always always keep macroing if you can during harass even if its just scv building. | ||
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