EPTWhen does the drop occur with your build?
[G] iEchoic's 1/1/2 Hellion Drop TvP - Page 13
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ZomgTossRush
United States1041 Posts
When does the drop occur with your build? | ||
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0c3LoT
Canada162 Posts
^ My first time trying this build, think I executed it pretty good (although prob not the exact build). Funny that sc2replayed puts a Banshee Rush tag on it. Opponent was mid-Diamond I believe. | ||
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Senorcuidado
United States700 Posts
On September 20 2010 06:27 TheThor wrote: This build is insanely effective. I'm in 800-900 diamond and because of this build, TvP is by far my strongest matchup. It actually feels quite OP --- if P doesn't specifically counter early on, it is pretty much gg. yeah man, it feels a little unfair just how effective the marines and banshees are together. I'm kind of expecting the nerf bat (probably on the banshees) but hopefully not. I'm 1000 diamond atm and I grin ear to ear when I see Protoss. Sometimes an FE gives me a little trouble but not much since the stalkers are at the expo when my hellions hit and I do a lot of damage in the main. My biggest problem has been 1 base into high temps, but that kinda feels like a blind tech rush that would lose to a 3 rax (I could certainly be wrong, I almost never see it). Even before psi storm kicks in, a few feedbacks on my banshees really hurts my push. Even then, we trade armies and come out even on expos, I transition into mmm with ghosts and the long macro game begins! Regarding the timing of the hellion drop, i'm pretty sure it's around 7 minutes because I've had 8 minute games where I killed 20 probes and the guy left. Don't quote me on this though, i'd have to check a replay. On some maps I suggest extreme caution because a couple void rays charging on your extractor (or back rocks like on kulas) while you're out of position is awful. Scout scout scout! 2 proxy stargates can have a few void rays in your base right when your hellion drop hits. It is super duper all-in so if you scout it you win. Just a regular stargate build isn't too hard to deal with. And if you don't see a robo with your hellions, get cloak and collect your win! If you see immortals(for some reason a lot of blind Immortal building going on because they assume marauders?), like even one since they're so expensive, marines and banshees totally win. I like to wait for stim and 6 banshees but honestly it's probably not a good idea unless they are really aggressive. Just my $1.05, still loving the build! | ||
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lim1017
Canada1278 Posts
i like to throw in a couple ravens for PDD delays my push a little but it completely stomps over any protoss build ive come accross so far.. pheonixs giving me the most trouble early on. marine/maruder/banshee + 1-2 raven. ive also gotten ghosts before to emp my banshees so they dont get fedback.. | ||
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SoFFacet
United States101 Posts
Need more games to analyze. | ||
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Tenbones
4 Posts
What I'd like to add is that after the first 2 banshees, which I use to harass, I build a raven right after if I see more stalkers being warped in. I find that I just get enough energy for a PDD to plonk down in his base as my marines + 1 or 2 more banshees join the fray. The tips on how to transition are great! | ||
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Moja
United States313 Posts
Here's a replay: ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-150447.jpg) What I did wrong: - late factory (25 second delay is bad...) - no scout on the Xel Naga watch tower - didn't scout proxy pylon I expect you to recommend a double bunker with repairing scvs, but then I have to double bunker the backdoor rocks as well. That's 400 minerals frozen... Worth it? Holding the Xel Naga tower for advance notice of the incoming attack would have been good this game, but you can't rely on holding it. I didn't wall the ramp because of the map. Test it with a practice partner and see what you think. I love this build but it feels very unsafe on Blistering Sands. Other maps, no problem. | ||
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Gungalley
7 Posts
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lim1017
Canada1278 Posts
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policymaker
Greece152 Posts
You delayed factory a lot, you scouted the double gate so you should assume he might push early. Bunker was a good idea, but not blocking the ramp was bad imo. It would have been a lot easier if u walled off with a bunker and a barracks, he wouldnt even try to continue harassing. What I do(since I cant multitask that efficiently) is keep a worker idle next to my bunker for repairs when the time comes, and bring in a couple more if I have to. If I scout 4gate, double bunker. You should have a depot near the rocks just for permascout, or a marine. If he attacked the rocks with 6-8 stalkers he would just lose so much time you could have prepared a bunker near mineral line, and harrass his echo with ur hellions so much he would probably back off. But yeah your biggest mistake was the delayed factory, hadnt you delayed that, you would caught him right on the way of his attack: he would back off to protect probes for sure. Also that pylon, you saw that probe sneaking around, you shouldnt have left it wandering like that, he added 2 stalkers immediately because of this. So: -Block ramp -Adjust ur timing -Repair bunkers -Collect win Yesterday I beat another protoss which hold me off enough to have his templars out, but I switched to ghosts/maraud asap and expanded, with my banshees I didnt let him expand, and eventually won in 30 min. Had my micro been better I would have won by 20min too. In my first push he blocked his ramp effieciently and I didnt back off my marines so they got raped down the ramp. So watch out for sentry blocks too. | ||
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Phrencys
Canada270 Posts
Just abort the drop and prepare for your push anyway? The drop seems to be key in this build. Don't you fall behind if you can't deal any damage with it? | ||
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Jer.732
United States317 Posts
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junemermaid
United States981 Posts
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gillon
Sweden1578 Posts
EDIT: The FE I talk about is usually 1 gate FE or 1 gate robo FE, expo goes down at around 30 food for the P. The drop comes a bit after that so if I expo it feels like I'm quite behind in catching up since I don't scout it until then. | ||
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policymaker
Greece152 Posts
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SizzFlair
18 Posts
I used to have a lot of problems going against P, but tried this build today and worked wonders. One game I ended up killing ALL of the probes because he JUST hit my main as I dropped. Took forever for their forces to get back and he didn't pull his probes fast enough. One thing about the whole early rush from stalkers/zealots. Just have them scvs ready... I pulled 5 of them... if I didn't get there in time to repair, it would have hurt really bad (he had a handful of stalkers and zealots). I would definitely get cloak just for the harassment of it even if they're pumping out observers... more things that they have to worry about = more I can harass. BTW, I am platinum user and go against diamonds every match it seems... more points for me! | ||
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micjmac
42 Posts
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
On September 21 2010 12:24 micjmac wrote: I have used this build with a lot of success. I came across something interesting today though. When my helion drop arrived I scouted 4 gates and a robo. Abruptly after my drop, he sent a warp prism to my base and basically all-in'd. I was taken much by surprise. I ran my SCV's away from the zealots that were in the prism, while my banshees and marines attacked them, but I just couldn't keep up with the reinforcements that he was warping in. BTW the 4 gate was scouted with the helion drop. He only had 2 gates and a cybernetics when my SCV scouted him in the beginning of the match. If I sent my banshees to his main, he had a couple stalkers there, so that wouldn't have helped. The only thing I could think of doing in retrospect, was to put my marines in my bunker and run my SCVs to the choke, while I build a viking to snipe the prism. The only problem is: he is able to mine and build units, while I am stuck with the units I have because I cannot mine with zealots chasing me and constant reinforcements. I don't see how you can lose to a warp prism at that point in the game, at the time you refer to, when your hellions arrive you should have a lot of marines at home and just about getting two banshee's. It does not matter what he has in that warpprism to start with you have enough marines to kill it. Obviously if you fail to go for the source and try to fight the units before killing the prism then you might very well get overrun but just pounce the prism, take it down then kill any anti air units and have your banshee's clean up the rest. | ||
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Senorcuidado
United States700 Posts
On September 20 2010 15:24 Moja wrote: Just wanted to see what you think you should do against a rapid 2 gate mass stalker push (8 stalkers hit your base around 6:30). The map was blistering sands, probably the worst possible map for this build. They hit right as my hellion drop was leaving. If I'd had crisper timing, they would hit when my dropship is about 1/2 way to their base. Here's a replay: What I did wrong: - late factory (25 second delay is bad...) - no scout on the Xel Naga watch tower - didn't scout proxy pylon I expect you to recommend a double bunker with repairing scvs, but then I have to double bunker the backdoor rocks as well. That's 400 minerals frozen... Worth it? Holding the Xel Naga tower for advance notice of the incoming attack would have been good this game, but you can't rely on holding it. I didn't wall the ramp because of the map. Test it with a practice partner and see what you think. I love this build but it feels very unsafe on Blistering Sands. Other maps, no problem. I just 3 rax on blistering sands. I'm not saying it's impossible to do this build or a 1/1/1 but 4 gates are tough with those rocks and 3 rax is smooth and safe, and it can threaten their rocks too. Otherwise, there's no way around it - you'll have to double bunker both entrances (and probably have some well placed depots) to hold off a 4 gate on that map. I use this strategy in almost all my tvp games, but I'll usually 3 rax on blistering sands and steppes of war, although steppes is just a preference thing - I like to have a tight sim city early on against early rushes and void rays, and put pressure on the toss if he tries to tech. | ||
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Gungalley
7 Posts
 Now, Is it just me or is this build kind of weak early game? | ||
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