EPT[G] iEchoic's 1/1/2 Hellion Drop TvP - Page 12
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blagoonga123
United States2068 Posts
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grandpaj
United States3 Posts
On September 16 2010 05:37 blagoonga123 wrote: Yeah he had an obs out. I was actually in the process of transitioning into 3rax + tech lab marauder play but then he just rolled in with a force i was thoroughly unprepared for. I guess my issue that game was scouting. But when I was falling asleep I was thinking of ways I could have saved myself and drawing a blank. I guess instead of engaging outright with banshees i coulda tried to keep him in his base for a while to get my marauders out. Yeah, sounds like that was a tough game in any case. One idea that might have helped is to use the Banshees and/or a medivac drop to harass his minerals while his Stalkers are hitting your wall, and try to bait him into pulling back. You can wear on him like this while you get your army together, hopefully. One thing I've noticed is that you have to be on top of your game with this build; if you go slow and make a lot of mistakes you'll lose the early-game advantage that this build relies on. If you go even 1 or 2 minutes too slow he will have teched or massed too much to sufficiently hurt with this harass. | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
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blagoonga123
United States2068 Posts
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blagoonga123
United States2068 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-149272.jpg) Here we go. | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
On September 16 2010 11:39 blagoonga123 wrote: Here we go. I'd say the #1 reason is you didn't get an orbital command until ~21 supply (and you stopped producing SCVs at the start for a long period of time, which really hurts). You should be putting the OC up right when your rax finishes (I'm assuming you just forgot). Also, you started the second refinery before the Factory, when you're not supposed to start it until after the Starport. I've forgotten to get my orbital command before and it hurts your econ big time. No OC + not building SCVs = you fell way behind in macro. He had 33 harvesters at one point when you had 18 :o. Make sure you're always building workers. Looks like you just need to clean up the build a bit. It's really precisely-timed so little things like building the refinery at the wrong time will throw a wrench in it pretty good. The replays are a good reference if you forget how it goes. This build is supposed to give you an economic advantage through harass, so make sure to capitalize on it. Hope that helps, if you clean that up and lose more report back. | ||
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blagoonga123
United States2068 Posts
On September 16 2010 11:57 iEchoic wrote: I'd say the #1 reason is you didn't get an orbital command until ~21 supply (and you stopped producing SCVs at the start for a long period of time, which really hurts). You should be putting the OC up right when your rax finishes (I'm assuming you just forgot). Also, you started the second refinery before the Factory, when you're not supposed to start it until after the Starport. I've forgotten to get my orbital command before and it hurts your econ big time. No OC + not building SCVs = you fell way behind in macro. He had 33 harvesters at one point when you had 18 :o. Make sure you're always building workers. Looks like you just need to clean up the build a bit. It's really precisely-timed so little things like building the refinery at the wrong time will throw a wrench in it pretty good. The replays are a good reference if you forget how it goes. This build is supposed to give you an economic advantage through harass, so make sure to capitalize on it. Hope that helps, if you clean that up and lose more report back. I see. I actually remember making a lot of little mistakes in this match, I guess they added up in a BIG way. D: It's funny, I'm like 1230 diamond and after games like this I still feel so noobish lol | ||
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Meteorain007
United States2 Posts
I attached a replay of my game, I'm by no means are great player and the BO isn't refined at all. This is a ~800 Diamond game. The map positions kind of helped too. ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-149524.jpg) | ||
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Pandamonium
United States5 Posts
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Xanczor
United States254 Posts
Great strategy and I think hellions will be used more in TvP. It will just take time. | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
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Ender985
Spain910 Posts
Tips: If he FE, you can drop your helions in his main, kill 5-6 probes and when his forces arrive to defend, load, move to the exp and proceed to kill some more probes. Repeat until he splits his army or all the probes are dead  Bonus: Catch the probe-ball out of stalker coverture. You can end the game right there. | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
On September 18 2010 10:00 Ender985 wrote: Bonus: Catch the probe-ball out of stalker coverture. You can end the game right there. My favorite is when they try to run, realize they shouldn't be running, and click a mineral patch, so all the probes stack on one perfect dot. And then you kill all of them. | ||
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Gungalley
7 Posts
 Sometimes they do a timing push right after I drop my hellions for harrass for the first time, and i am unable to hold them off with the limited marines that i have, even with the bunker. I know that it is difficult to comment without a replay, my apologies. Btw, should I build a raven like in the other 112 build? If so, whens a good time for the raven? Btw, I am high gold level. | ||
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MasterFischer
Denmark836 Posts
On September 19 2010 17:47 Gungalley wrote: I'm going to require some help for this build. I've won 2 games and lost about 5. Replays arent available right now, my apologies, but basically, i just lose to mass stalkers. Im unable to transition fast enough to MM, and stalkers kill my banshees all the time. Even when i do kill many probes (my highest is 15), i still end up losing Sometimes they do a timing push right after I drop my hellions for harrass for the first time, and i am unable to hold them off with the limited marines that i have, even with the bunker. I know that it is difficult to comment without a replay, my apologies. Btw, should I build a raven like in the other 112 build? If so, whens a good time for the raven? Btw, I am high gold level. If you scout 4 gates, build another bunker for incoming push, build a raven and fast marauders against mass stalkers... micro your bainshees around.. you should have enough | ||
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Gungalley
7 Posts
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
On September 19 2010 17:47 Gungalley wrote: I'm going to require some help for this build. I've won 2 games and lost about 5. Replays arent available right now, my apologies, but basically, i just lose to mass stalkers. Im unable to transition fast enough to MM, and stalkers kill my banshees all the time. Even when i do kill many probes (my highest is 15), i still end up losing Sometimes they do a timing push right after I drop my hellions for harrass for the first time, and i am unable to hold them off with the limited marines that i have, even with the bunker. I know that it is difficult to comment without a replay, my apologies. Btw, should I build a raven like in the other 112 build? If so, whens a good time for the raven? Btw, I am high gold level. Well, I can only help so much without replays, but I can give you some pointers: From the sound of your post, they're going 3-4 gate stalker + sentry. This means a few things. First of all, they don't have blink (you can't get a lot of sentries and stalkers and still have gas for blink early). This means they can't get past your wall. Also, consider that they didn't go robo. You can win the game with cloaked banshees easily once you hold the push off. Now, let's say you do your hellion drop. You scout 4 gates with your hellions/medivac. What you should immediately do at home is: a) Start constructing a second bunker b) Put 5-6 SCVs on a control group and turn on auto-repair. c) Make sure you have advance vision of where they're attacking. You can take an SCV and just put him outside the bottom of your ramp. You just need to know so you can get workers to your bunker in time to repair. I haven't encountered any 4-gate push that can break up my ramp with 6 scvs repairing it. Very shortly, you should have two banshees popping out, and a walled-off ramp with bunkers and SCVs on repair with two banshees is nearly unbreakable. We'll have to see replays if you need more help. | ||
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nukestrike
Czech Republic19 Posts
EDIT: the thing is that his army can simply ignore my bunker and go to my base, which means, that only solution might be walling off with depo which is easily abusable by VRs/stalkers etc.. | ||
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Mazelmavin
3 Posts
The new update is fantastic! Especially the flowchart. I would highly suggest more along those lines if you still feel the need to help us at the lower levels. Breakdown the logic of why this counters that and show it visually. Also that last post about the 4 Gate should be into the OP, maybe with some visual aid. I know 4 Gate (and VRs) are the bane of my SC existance. I used to use this build and Protoss was my best MU. However, as I won I noticed it stopped working, probably because I didn't really know where to go with it once the opposition got a little better. I think I'm going to start practicing the Build again. | ||
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RedThor
116 Posts
This build is insanely effective. I'm in 800-900 diamond and because of this build, TvP is by far my strongest matchup. It actually feels quite OP --- if P doesn't specifically counter early on, it is pretty much gg. | ||
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