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ZvT Mutalisk "Magic Box" via PsyStarcraft - Page 5

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Melt
Profile Joined May 2010
Switzerland281 Posts
August 21 2010 18:03 GMT
#81
i find it somehow funny that mutalisk stacking in bw really enhanced their usage and now, in SC2, it's mutalisk spreading that lets the matchup evolve
Tabbris
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Bangladesh2839 Posts
August 21 2010 18:07 GMT
#82
On August 22 2010 03:03 Melt wrote:
i find it somehow funny that mutalisk stacking in bw really enhanced their usage and now, in SC2, it's mutalisk spreading that lets the matchup evolve

U still want to try and stack them in other situations like vs marines and shit. But the problem is muta u cant rly muta micro like in BW
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
August 21 2010 18:09 GMT
#83
i find this to not be ideal, i prefer to split mutas in 2 and form a crescent while sending the muta that is taking hits over to the empty side of the imaginary circle. It actually is much more effective because thors waste time turnign back and forth
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
blackodd
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden451 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-21 18:15:03
August 21 2010 18:14 GMT
#84
On August 22 2010 02:31 bara wrote:
Make it "scheisse" instead of "scheissen"
but anyway nice idea


sry looked at german swearwords list.. I know 0 german :p

On August 22 2010 03:03 Melt wrote:
i find it somehow funny that mutalisk stacking in bw really enhanced their usage and now, in SC2, it's mutalisk spreading that lets the matchup evolve


Yes.. too bad the sc2 version can be done in your sleep while mutalisk stacking was an art
For I am the Queen of Blades. And none shall ever dispute my rule, again...
PuppyFur
Profile Joined April 2010
United States6 Posts
August 22 2010 00:26 GMT
#85
pretty neat mechanic, thanks
Who was first who forged the deadly blade? Of rugged steel his savage soul was made.
moopie
Profile Joined July 2009
12605 Posts
August 22 2010 00:32 GMT
#86
First off this has already posted.

Also:
24 mutas vs 4 thors
(2400/2400/48) vs (1200/800/24)
Which is hardly an even army composition, half food, and less than half the resources. Finally, the thors can kite away slowly, as was done in BW w/ goliaths, which will lead to the mutas either having to be re-positioned constantly, or clumping up behind them.
I'm going to sleep, let me get some of that carpet.
Kare
Profile Joined March 2009
Norway786 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-22 00:38:56
August 22 2010 00:35 GMT
#87
I have known that mutas rape thors for months
In life you can obtain all sorts of material wealth, but the real treasure is the epic feelings you get while doing something you love.
buKe
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada168 Posts
August 22 2010 00:43 GMT
#88
pure mech will always lose now. thor/siege tank willl get RAPED by muta/x it just happened to me omg. need biomech now siege/marine/marauder/hellion
Tritonus
Profile Joined August 2010
Denmark125 Posts
August 22 2010 00:44 GMT
#89
On August 21 2010 05:48 CheezDip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2010 05:45 R0YAL wrote:
On August 21 2010 05:44 Looky wrote:
am i the only one who knew this a long time ago haha. i didnt think anything of it tho. just fly over them and push attack to an empty space. you dont have to push "stop"

nope iv been saying it since the beta... pretty much common sense


Yea I thought it was well known too and I was using it in the beta, but nobody on the boards really wanted to listen when I and others said mutas were really not hard-countered by thors at all if you just move without bunching.


The difference is that IdrA did this in the IEM yesterday, so now people will listen :D
buKe
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada168 Posts
August 22 2010 00:45 GMT
#90
On August 22 2010 09:32 moopie wrote:
First off this has already posted.

Also:
24 mutas vs 4 thors
(2400/2400/48) vs (1200/800/24)
Which is hardly an even army composition, half food, and less than half the resources. Finally, the thors can kite away slowly, as was done in BW w/ goliaths, which will lead to the mutas either having to be re-positioned constantly, or clumping up behind them.

LOL and leave all ur tanks to die? it doesnt work like that. and only 4 mutas will die out of that 24. im not saying its imba but thors arent imba at all anymore. zvt is going to evolve like crazy in a few days. pure mech will not work
archon256
Profile Joined August 2010
United States363 Posts
August 22 2010 00:46 GMT
#91
On August 22 2010 09:43 buKe wrote:
pure mech will always lose now. thor/siege tank willl get RAPED by muta/x it just happened to me omg. need biomech now siege/marine/marauder/hellion

Just theory-crafting here, but since Turrets are still very strong for their price, couldn't you defend your base with Turrets while pushing out with a soft pure mech push building Turrets as you go?

But then you'd also have to scout to avoid the inevitable Roach switch, which means less energy for MULEs, which means less minerals for Turrets.

Hmm.
"The troupe is ready, the stage is set. I come to dance, the dance of death"
Backpack
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1776 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-22 00:49:35
August 22 2010 00:49 GMT
#92
On August 22 2010 09:32 moopie wrote:
First off this has already posted.

Also:
24 mutas vs 4 thors
(2400/2400/48) vs (1200/800/24)
Which is hardly an even army composition, half food, and less than half the resources. Finally, the thors can kite away slowly, as was done in BW w/ goliaths, which will lead to the mutas either having to be re-positioned constantly, or clumping up behind them.


You forgot the part where they are spending most of their resources on tanks which you can pick off if the thors. If they have a lot more thors than you just make more lings/hydras or w/e.

"You people need to just generally care a lot less about everything." -Zatic
Subztance
Profile Joined August 2010
United States139 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-22 01:02:35
August 22 2010 01:01 GMT
#93
On August 22 2010 09:35 Kare wrote:
I have known that mutas rape thors for months


It's important to note that mutas do NOT rape thors. Nobody should be thinking "oh my god my opponent has thors, time to counter with mutalisks!" the key is that mutalisks do not GET raped by thors, so if your opponent gets thors to counter YOUR mutalisks you can deal with them by keeping the thor numbers low while gradually increasing the number of mutalisks that you have and/or switching to roaches/banelings depending on the rest of their composition. you still do need more resources spent on mutalisks than your opponent has spent on thors.
yuri taeyeon
Ghad
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway2551 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-22 02:32:57
August 22 2010 02:01 GMT
#94
Most important thing here is that this will probably decrease the tank count, which leads to the fact that ground units can actually get in range of the T blob at all.

On August 22 2010 09:46 archon256 wrote:
Just theory-crafting here, but since Turrets are still very strong for their price, couldn't you defend your base with Turrets while pushing out with a soft pure mech push building Turrets as you go?


That is a bit silly. You would need to make a chain with like 20 turrets across the map to have any effect at all, or?


On August 22 2010 03:09 Sfydjklm wrote:
i find this to not be ideal, i prefer to split mutas in 2 and form a crescent while sending the muta that is taking hits over to the empty side of the imaginary circle. It actually is much more effective because thors waste time turnign back and forth


The APM cost seems a lot higher but certainly sounds plausible.
forgottendreams: One underage girl, two drunk guys, one gogo dancer and starcraft 2. Apparently just another day in Europe.
Warrior Madness
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada3791 Posts
August 22 2010 02:18 GMT
#95
What I found most interesting about yesterday's games was not the muta micro but the muta builds. Both Idra and Dimaga were persistent in skipping roaches. When I first started playing I preferred to defend with most slings and an extra queen against hellions and reapers. But then I started to play against terrans who would do really quick and well executed blue flame hellion drops or terrans who had really crisp reaper control and eventually I just started to lay down the roach warren to make just a few roaches for early defense. It just seems a lot more cost effective and less riskier than pure lings. One bad engagement and all your lings are dead and he has a critical number of hellions.
The Past: Yellow, Julyzerg, Chojja, Savior, GGplay -- The Present: Luxury, Jae- The Future: -Dong, maGma, Zero, Effort, Hoejja, hyvaa, by.hero, calm, Action ---> SC2 (Ret?? Kolll Idra!! SEN, Cool, ZergBong, Leenock)
Smurfz
Profile Joined May 2008
United States327 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-22 02:42:56
August 22 2010 02:42 GMT
#96
I don't get how this is news to so many people, and why everyone is spasming over it now.

[edit] oh, apparently cuz idra did it so it's an official tactic now lul
awesomoecalypse
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2235 Posts
August 22 2010 03:33 GMT
#97
I don't get how this is news to so many people, and why everyone is spasming over it now.


Because it is news. Keeping in strict formation via the "magic box" is different from attacking with mutas and then trying to spread them out.

For a while now, everyone's been bitching about how devastating two builds are to zerg:

Marauder/Hellion/Thor

and

Pure mech

In BOTH of those builds, Thor is the anti-air. And what everyone complained about, was that it was too damn good at it. Until Zerg got broodlords, the feeling was, Thors could wreck anything they came up with.

Well...turns out thats not true. Mutas can take Thors, if used properly.

That changes things dramatically. Suddenly, both of the builds above need to throw in marines and/or turrets and/or many more thors than they originally planned on to deal with mutas. Which is doable, sure. But that means less money for the siege tanks or for marauders and hellions. Which means that Zerg have a much better chance of actually doing some damage on the ground in a straight up fight.

Really, it changes the matchup a lot, and if you don't understand why, or if you think people have been doing this since beta, you're simply mistaken.
He drone drone drone. Me win. - ogsMC
Okiesmokie
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada379 Posts
August 22 2010 04:16 GMT
#98
On August 22 2010 02:45 HowardRoark wrote:
I do not understand, is it a real BW magic box, do you have to select the units by moving the mouse from one corner of the box to the other, or can I just double click one muta to select all and it will work the same?

How you select the units has nothing to do with the magic box.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Magic_Box
monterto
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada103 Posts
August 23 2010 05:09 GMT
#99
Watch blizzard buff thors
I'm pretty much Hyuk but white...
TyrantPotato
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia1541 Posts
August 23 2010 05:17 GMT
#100
its funny, all the T players used to say that zerg should stop QQing and that something will be found to stop pure mech, it has. they were right, mech is not unbeatable. however now the problem is not so much pure mech any more, but that lovely reaper opening.

its a bummer, us zerg players finally get this matchup so its balenced then comes along some jetpack dual pistol wielding homies who wanna ruin our fun.
Forever ZeNEX.
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