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On September 05 2010 01:49 nodq wrote:
Actually, against Protoss this Build does not work very good at all ive to admit. 4 Gate is a pain with this build, i cant pump enough units when the push comes to defend. Push comes exactly then when i finish my 2nd hatch and then ive less mins and no drones there, and no def to beat 4 Gate units.
against 2 gate rush its perfect, but ya. trutling protoss its also not that good, u cant get in with canons at the front without losing many units. And my eco sucks until then compared to protoss and then he does a push and again i dont have enough units because not enough larva or mins.
Against Terran its oki, you force the Terran to build Marauders etc. thats good actually.
Well, when you play toss, your scout will be in the opponents base before you throw down your roach warren. Id say that this build works really well vs a 2 gate opening, but if you scout something other than 2 gate, its probably best to skip roach warren, pump a few more drones and expo. I've found this build "hard counters" (hate using that phrase, but it applies here) a 2 gate opening, but the econ sacrifice is too much vs a 4 gate or 3 gate robo or quick stargate or w/e.
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must say, i've crushed plenty of protoss going 4gate with this build.
the timing has to be really, really precise. ppl who cant kill 3gate robo or 4gate or whatever with this build are probably doing something wrong, try refine ur timings.
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On September 06 2010 11:09 Subversion wrote:
must say, i've crushed plenty of protoss going 4gate with this build.
the timing has to be really, really precise. ppl who cant kill 3gate robo or 4gate or whatever with this build are probably doing something wrong, try refine ur timings.
My friend on stepes of war with a really well executed 1 portal 1 robo and countered it pretty well. By the exact time i start making the roaches he started making the immortal. He blocked the entrance with zealots and raped my roaches with the imortal.
I'm going to try to run up the ramps with the rallied lings and do some economic damage but i think this pretty much counters it as my expo is kinda late and even if i don't attack i won't be able to pump enoght lings to defeat his army.
I'm going to work a little more on the build and tell how it works out.
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ZERG NOOB Question:
Why the 9 Overlord?? why not the 10 Overlord??
I've won against protoss with 3-4 gate push... if i see them having it. I've already won. I just kite my roaches... and continue making roach while my queen digs their grave for them. zealot vs roach... no contest.
But i do have problems with getting up a terran ramp. how do you do it?? i usually let army go up.. with lings first. then hit the supply depot(weakest bldg) i get thru no problem.. but once in.. thats the nasty part. by then.. usually my lings are dead and left with 5 roaches. with backup coming(usually 8 lings) but with even just 1-2 marauder and probably 4-6 marines. it just eats up my roaches. by the time the back up arrives. i have 2 roach left... ADVICE pls 
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On September 06 2010 10:02 ThatsNoMoon wrote:
So what do you guys do when you spot marauders?
Back off and go into ling muta?
I stop to get a baneling lair, but yeah.
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On September 06 2010 12:39 sandman_sy wrote:ZERG NOOB Question: Why the 9 Overlord?? why not the 10 Overlord?? I've won against protoss with 3-4 gate push... if i see them having it. I've already won. I just kite my roaches... and continue making roach while my queen digs their grave for them. zealot vs roach... no contest. But i do have problems with getting up a terran ramp. how do you do it?? i usually let army go up.. with lings first. then hit the supply depot(weakest bldg) i get thru no problem.. but once in.. thats the nasty part. by then.. usually my lings are dead and left with 5 roaches. with backup coming(usually 8 lings) but with even just 1-2 marauder and probably 4-6 marines. it just eats up my roaches. by the time the back up arrives. i have 2 roach left... ADVICE pls
9 OL has hard evidence to be THE BEST economically (10 OL is slower in every way than 9 OL, and extractor trick(s) are only good if you do a 11/12 gas or something).
You put your Roaches out in front. They are the tanks. They take the damage and once you bust down the wall you run in your lings. Lings will kill marauders and 3 roaches kill marines in 1 volley.
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Nobody for a replay ? even if it's a loose or a win, I don't care, just to see how the beginning works.
Thanks.
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On September 06 2010 16:12 angerpowered wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 12:39 sandman_sy wrote:ZERG NOOB Question: Why the 9 Overlord?? why not the 10 Overlord?? I've won against protoss with 3-4 gate push... if i see them having it. I've already won. I just kite my roaches... and continue making roach while my queen digs their grave for them. zealot vs roach... no contest. But i do have problems with getting up a terran ramp. how do you do it?? i usually let army go up.. with lings first. then hit the supply depot(weakest bldg) i get thru no problem.. but once in.. thats the nasty part. by then.. usually my lings are dead and left with 5 roaches. with backup coming(usually 8 lings) but with even just 1-2 marauder and probably 4-6 marines. it just eats up my roaches. by the time the back up arrives. i have 2 roach left... ADVICE pls 9 OL has hard evidence to be THE BEST economically (10 OL is slower in every way than 9 OL, and extractor trick(s) are only good if you do a 11/12 gas or something). You put your Roaches out in front. They are the tanks. They take the damage and once you bust down the wall you run in your lings. Lings will kill marauders and 3 roaches kill marines in 1 volley.
9 Overlord huh.. VERY interesting.. this will change my entire game. I've done 10 OV and from silver to platinum i got. if i tweak this.. it could be my key to get to diamond.. stuck at 15-18 plat
Roaches tanks first then lings. .excellent idea. Now why didn't i think of that...  heheheh thanx a bunch dude. FOR THE SWARM.
If you don't mind.. one more question.. i had a ZvP just 5 min ago. and this guys had his ramp covered by 2 stalkers. and 2 zealtos.. and 1 sentry... i think.. half of the ramp there was a gateway. when i pushed he did a forcefield and my roaches coudn't back my lings. to i had to do a tactical retreat.. contained him. Until he got blink.. he just harrassed the hell out of my roaches/lings. snipes some lings then runs.. kites.. i wish i had a nearby OV to spew creep but i didn't. so i ended up losing the game. coz he reached a critical number while i tried containing him. i was losing left and right of lings and sometimes stalker.
How would you have handled it. from the part where you found out his ramp is oh so hard to climb.
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On September 06 2010 12:39 sandman_sy wrote:But i do have problems with getting up a terran ramp. how do you do it?? i usually let army go up.. with lings first. then hit the supply depot(weakest bldg) i get thru no problem.. but once in.. thats the nasty part. by then.. usually my lings are dead and left with 5 roaches. with backup coming(usually 8 lings) but with even just 1-2 marauder and probably 4-6 marines. it just eats up my roaches. by the time the back up arrives. i have 2 roach left... ADVICE pls
I usually just try to bust through the Terran wall with the 5 roaches and kill as many repairing SCV's as I can. If I break through, lings stream in. If not, I transition to midgame.
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I just had 3 games with it and I've lost all 3 games
1st game T went muarader into thor
2nd game was 2 gate pressure
3rd game hellions into viking into banshee
attached rep
http://www.mediafire.com/?73xx48d49x28pqq
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On September 07 2010 08:06 LemonSundae wrote:I just had 3 games with it and I've lost all 3 games 1st game T went muarader into thor 2nd game was 2 gate pressure 3rd game hellions into viking into banshee attached rep http://www.mediafire.com/?73xx48d49x28pqq
Hello,
I looked at your 2nd replay and noticed your timing was off with the build. Your roaches came almost 30 seconds late. If you get the timing down they should come out at 5 minutes and you would have easily fended off those zealots and destroyed him afterward. Check out the replays from Newti on page 16 to see examples of the timing. I think once you execute it better you will win a lot more.
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Thanks mango_destroyer I'll have a look
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wow OP I don't noe how long it must've taken you to come up with this BO refined and stuff. To those who don't actually play Zerg, it is impossibly HARD to come up with a BO that's not an all-in rush or cheese of some kind.
We are accepted as the reactionary race and since so much stuff just rapes us if not scouted or mic-micro'd or w/e. This has to all be taken into account when playing as Z. See how many strat guides you can find on Liquipedia or general forums for Z.
Hell, I dont even think I follow a BO anymore, just standard 14-15g/14-15p every game. Then depending on the situation, I continue to tech towards what I need.
Wish I was T sometimes, so I can decide on what i'm gonna do before the game...."hmm should I open 3 rax or 2fact or 1-1-1? hmmmmmm........" W/e They decide will hold up well against what Z can throw at them. It's disheartening.
GJ and TY OP, will def try this and hopefully a refined BO like yours will push me over 1k diamond =]
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This 5RR is great! I've been having ZvP problems lately and this really helps me deal with protoss. 3 wins for 3 games against protoss today with little problems. Thanks! IMO I think the strategy is best for protoss. Terran can either bunker up or take out a quick tank.
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As a Tossplayer, i can say to you, that you should not always do this. Okay, ofcause, it's nice that you wanna have your own build but setting your plan out of your information ist jsut dumb...
I saw the game vs kia, or something like this. The reasons why he lost: Wall in with pylon.he made sentries instead of stalker.
You scouted your opponent. You saw 12gate, 13gas+wall in. Did you actually made the go cause of pylonwallin, instead of gate+core? Why should you play this strat in a case that he techs and walls? Getting another expo+queen if he is going void rays would be a better option.
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Lol, took this build into YABOT for 20 mins and after the first game I play I get promoted to Diamond.
Destroyed a 4gate toss.
I have a few questions, however:
When should I scout?
Attack economy or pylons?
This build does wonders!
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if T scouts warren - he makes marauders = fail
if T scouts push - he makes bunker = fail
if T scouts push - he pulls workers off to help defend = fail
After this push, your eco is horrible = fail
After this push, your tech is delayed = fail
This is not more than a cheesey all-in....
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On September 07 2010 12:24 kickinhead wrote:
if T scouts warren - he makes marauders = fail
if T scouts push - he makes bunker = fail
if T scouts push - he pulls workers off to help defend = fail
After this push, your eco is horrible = fail
After this push, your tech is delayed = fail
This is not more than a cheesey all-in....
Quite simply, no. Those who think this doesn't work (or who have failed trying it) are missing some basic adaptations that must be done against Terran and Protoss, though are not necessary against Zerg.
After your roaches move out, ESPECIALLY against terran, 3 things need to happen immediately.
1. Your expo gets placed.
2. You get your second extractor and put drones back on gas
3. You get lair tech.
Then, you can gauge your opponent; if he has more than one marauder, don't lose roaches; don't go for a break, but try to contain him as much as possible. Likewise, more than one stalker is troublesome. The immediate transition once your lair goes up is to add hydras and an extra queen, cause your opponent will counterpush ASAP; pretend you only have roaches, and crush him with hydras when he gets to your nat. Then you can nydus or use OL creep to win.
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On September 07 2010 12:24 kickinhead wrote:
if T scouts warren - he makes marauders = fail
if T scouts push - he makes bunker = fail
if T scouts push - he pulls workers off to help defend = fail
After this push, your eco is horrible = fail
After this push, your tech is delayed = fail
This is not more than a cheesey all-in....
if T scouts warren - he makes marauders = pull back, one batch of zerglings protects you from immediate push, drone and zerglings while teching. Compared to the normal zerg openings you have good scouting info, an expand that is well defended and gets up fast and an opponent on 1 base who is likely overreacting and nowhere near expanding.
if T scouts push - he makes bunker = break wall, walk past, if he just has marines you can kill a bunch of workers.
if T scouts push - he pulls workers off to help defend = kill workers ... yay ! Econ advantage is advantageous.
All of those require the T to scout in the first place.
After this push, your eco is horrible = how is it horrible ? after one batch of zerglings add a batch of drones ... then you have lots of drones and you can defend reapers and hellions better than most other builds.
After this push, your tech is delayed = you kill opposing tech builds, so everyone's tech is delayed.
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EPT
