Loved this, nothing like a good piece of cheese. For the haters telling everybody that cheesing only works when facing shit opponents or being a shit player yourself trying to get lucky, I present you a traumatic part of Starcraft history:
Watch at your own risk.
Also I couldn't find the 'strafe gets cannonrushed by a C+ newbie on ICC' game (probably since it wasn't released outside of some pimpest plays vid) but let me assure you, good players get cannonrushed, proxied, cheesed in all ways and yes, they lose to it as well.
On August 13 2010 22:29 Stegosaur wrote: Loved this, nothing like a good piece of cheese. For the haters telling everybody that cheesing only works when facing shit opponents or being a shit player yourself trying to get lucky, I present you a traumatic part of Starcraft history:
Watch at your own risk.
Also I couldn't find the 'strafe gets cannonrushed by a C+ newbie on ICC' game (probably since it wasn't released outside of some pimpest plays vid) but let me assure you, good players get cannonrushed, proxied, cheesed in all ways and yes, they lose to it as well.
that being said, your step 2 and step 3 are pretty contradictory
Step 2 requires you to start your forge after knowing where your enemy is (after you scout them)
Step 3 requires you to have your forge already under construction as you arrive at their base
This makes no sense
You're right, I should clarify that. On 1v1 maps, you know where they are at the start. So, you can start the forge early and it will be under construction when you arrive at their base. On larger maps, sometimes you cant locate them immediately, so you have to wait to see how quickly you find them.
Either way, you want to start the forge as early as possible so that you minimize the amount of time it takes to commence the rush.
God, I don't know whether to hate you, or respect you.
Regardless, I really enjoyed reading this. There's always something to learn from Cheeses, I agree. I just never stay long enough to try and get out of it, nor do I watch the replay and relive the embarrassment. Thanks for writing this. Props.
I've noticed that some players won't fully scout after defeating the cannons, and sometimes you can leave an extra pylon in the corner. Then warpgates, lol.
Excellent post. Do you have any good replays? I'd love to see your placements and timings, and some excellent and failed responses by all three races. And some good qqs!
Why not use a real strat if you're going to be this much thought into it? Cannon rushing is for people that can't macro when the game goes longer than 10 min.
On August 14 2010 06:50 Hann1bal wrote: Why not use a real strat if you're going to be this much thought into it? Cannon rushing is for people that can't macro when the game goes longer than 10 min.
Scroll up again, tell Boxer or Bisu they can't macro :D There's nothing wrong with some cheese now and then and he didn't even try and disguise it as something honourable.
1) mothership rush 2) mass recall into base include a probe 3) build forge in opponents base 4) build cannons in opponents base 5) lose because you are not huk
I saw Sen come up with an interesting way to deal with cannoning your ramp. He simply built a baneling nest, built 6 banelings and that was enough to take out both pylons at the bottom of his ramp. Then he took his nat.
A variation of the Forge in base version that should be mentioned:
Build the first Pylon right against the corner of their CC/Nexus. Build the Forge against the Pylon on the opposite side from the CC/Nexus overhanging the Pylon creating a pocket against their CC/Nexus. Build the Cannon inside that pocket. Build another Pylon immediately Walling off the Cannon.
The end result should look something like this:
As you can see, do to the geometry of the buildings, it does leave space for 2 workers to reach the cannon and attack. If you place the left Pylon any further out, it will leave a space directly under it, and if you place the Forge further over, it opens up the space on the other side of it as well.
One way to make it tighter by 1 space and possibly to add a followup to the rush is to use a Gateway instead of the second Pylon at the cost of 50 more minerals, like so:
Still one space, but I think that's plenty manageable. Plus, you can put your own probe there to buy time for the cannon to finish.
The only way to stop this is to block one of the buildings from going down (Second Pylon/Gateway, most likely) and THEN killing the Cannon with workers before it warps in. It's worth noting that just with the 3-wall pocket, you can't get more than 3 workers attacking the cannon, which means you have to react very fast in order to kill it before it can finish and kill off the 3 workers (they pretty much have to all be attacking before it reaches the halfway mark).
On August 14 2010 15:58 Sylvr wrote: A variation of the Forge in base version that should be mentioned:
Build the first Pylon right against the corner of their CC/Nexus. Build the Forge against the Pylon on the opposite side from the CC/Nexus overhanging the Pylon creating a pocket against their CC/Nexus. Build the Cannon inside that pocket. Build another Pylon immediately Walling off the Cannon.
The end result should look something like this:
As you can see, do to the geometry of the buildings, it does leave space for 2 workers to reach the cannon and attack. If you place the left Pylon any further out, it will leave a space directly under it, and if you place the Forge further over, it opens up the space on the other side of it as well.
One way to make it tighter by 1 space and possibly to add a followup to the rush is to use a Gateway instead of the second Pylon at the cost of 50 more minerals, like so:
Still one space, but I think that's plenty manageable. Plus, you can put your own probe there to buy time for the cannon to finish.
The only way to stop this is to block one of the buildings from going down (Second Pylon/Gateway, most likely) and THEN killing the Cannon with workers before it warps in. It's worth noting that just with the 3-wall pocket, you can't get more than 3 workers attacking the cannon, which means you have to react very fast in order to kill it before it can finish and kill off the 3 workers (they pretty much have to all be attacking before it reaches the halfway mark).
Or just kill the initial pylon with your workers... 4 workers can do more damage to a pylon then what it receives from warping in (if that makes any sense). The reason the OP tells you to hide the first pylon and cannon is so that that it doesn't immediately get shut down from him sending all his workers in to kill it. Play a game vs a Very Hard or Insane AI and try to cannon rush them. Even if they don't see your pylon, they will use their map hacks and immediately send all their probes to kill it and then your boned. If you build your pylon next to his Nexus, expect that type of reaction from your opponent.
And to add in my own flavor to the thread, I've developed a very interesting twist to the cannon rush for PvP since I find that cannon rushing vs terran or zerg is a waste of time due to creep and lift-off.
My build is simply treating your forge like a gateway and instead of going 12 gate, you go 12 forge, offensive pylon, 1st cannon next to pylon, gateway while 1st cannon is warping in, then offensive cannon (the one that reveals you have cannons in his base). If 4 player map, send your first probe produced by your nexus to scout, if 2 player map send a standard probe after your pylon on 9. Do a wall-off with your forge and gateway at your ramp so if he fends off your offensive cannons with his zealots you can easily put cannons down at your entrance to take care of any counter push. If I win from the 2 cannons great, but I'm not expecting the cannons to win me the game. My cannons are just there to delay his stalkers. While he's dealing with my cannons, I tech up and proxy a stargate outside his main. Chronoboost out a voidray, and its usually GG since my cannons forced him to get a lot of zealots which delays his cybernetics and stalkers.
Since I'm just swapping the resources of my first gateway for a forge, my initial void ray comes just as fast as if I was fast teching to voidrays from the beginning.. From my experience, the only way my opponent can hold this if he decides to fast tech to stalkers and take on my cannons with stalkers instead of zealots. The only way he would be allowed to do that is if my 2 cannons were placed in a position that would not force the gg if not dealt with immediately (aka not in range of his mineral line or nexus). So if his initial building placement forced me to put my cannons in a position to only threaten his pylon/gateway instead of his nexus/probes, and if he somehow knew I wasn't going all-in with cannons, then he would be able to hold the void ray. Most protoss though freak out and build a lot of zealots and don't realize that the cannons were put there for him to do exactly that. Honestly who would think to fast tech to stalkers to deal with cannons in the first place?
I doubt anyone will read all that since this is posted on like the 8th page but I got so sick of how incredibly dumb PvP was that I just sat down and hammered this build out over like 4 hours (mostly to test if the timings would work). Its worked incredibly so far but it is highly dependent on your first pylon and cannon remaining undetected. Its come to the point where if I can get my pylon and cannon down undetected, I know from that point on its gg since my opponent is forced to do everything I want him to do. The placement of the first pylon/cannon is so important that I literally have a piece of paper with rules for where I put them depending on the placement of my opponent's first pylon/gateway and the map that is being played.
I will post a replay if anyones interested when I get back from vacation.
Actually, it takes 5 workers attacking from the very second it starts warping in to kill it before it finishes. 4 Workers will kill it a few seconds after it finishes. In either case, if they pull that many workers to kill your initial Pylon, then you've already won.
As the OP says, if they panic and go balls on your Pylon, just sit back and laugh and cancel it before it finishes/dies. 4 workers times 25 seconds of not mining will cost him more than the 25 minerals you lose from canceling a Pylon. Besides, if they attack the first one, just put up another one right away on the opposite corner. The pocket works vertically or horizontally.
Edit: The beauty of the build is that they can't react with anything other than Workers, and if they react to anything besides the cannon itself, they're screwed.
BTW, with my version of the Forge-in-base build, you need to send an initial Probe. The Pylon you put in their base is your first Pylon. I know that on Steppes, it gets there at about the perfect time for a 9 Pylon anyway, allowing for constant worker production (though you wanna cut one Probe between the Pylon and the Forge, and at least one more between Forge and Cannon+Pylon/Gateway).
This is a stupid thread. Cannon rushing will get you to a low level diamond at best and no higher, and won't at all teach you how to play the game. I welcome every one to read this guide then cannon rush me, it will be an easy win for me.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://knowyourmeme.com/i/000/059/523/original/HatersGonna--CHUUUUUUUU.png?1279289172)
![[image loading]](http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c384/Sylvr/CannonRush1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c384/Sylvr/CannonRush2.jpg)
