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On August 12 2010 10:22 kzn wrote:
So, a question:
I got cannon rushed in 3v3 (not particularly surprising, olol) and, having this thread in mind, I pulled 4 probes to kill cannons as they were warping in. The rushing probe dropped like 5 cannons and a pylon, with a pylon below a cliff powering over the edge into my base, and 2 of the cannons + the pylon finished at full hp, 1 cannon finished at half.
It wasn't particularly bad for me, because I got the probe dead early-ish and just rebuilt, but 4 probes didn't seem to be enough if the rushing player doesn't cancel.
Well, two things. First, if he's dropping that much hardware, he had to have saved up 850 minerals (5 cannons and a pylon) and already spent 100 for the first pylon. That means that the rush came late and you should have had more stuff to fend it off with.
Second, you need 4 probes for EACH CANNON (or pylon) he puts up, not 4 total for all cannons. Early game, he won't be able to put up more than a few cannons at once because of his economy. Later game, he can do a lot more. Still, you should have had enough probes to send more to the other ones. And if he keeps building, just queue the probes to the next item so they go attack it as soon as they finish.
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Hilarious and well written.
Suggested additions would be other counters to the cannon rush, I've had some success with P (when I spot the rush late, once a cannon is already up) by pumping a 2-3 stalkers quickly and then sniping the probe, once he is gone I can return to normal game plan and let the cannon sit idle until I get a big enough force to snipe it without taking damage. At the very least, the stalkers can prevent the probe from effectively advancing the cannon line. I would assume Terran can do something similar.
Your "send 4 probes to kill whatever is building" suggestion is well taken, but what do you do when rusher probe starts building 2-3 cannons/pylons at once? He can still cancel just as effectively, and 4 probes can't do damage fast enough to kill them all before finishing.
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Very nice and detailed guide. I had a great time reading it, even if I will never do a cannon rush as a Zerg who off-races as Terran. There are a few key points you missed out though;
What is the timing on sending your first probe? Do you ever send a 2nd probe? How do you react if your probe is killed? Do you continuously build probes at your main? Do you chrono-boost probes at your main at all?
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Sigh, this is gonna become the biggest thread on these boards. I called it...
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Hi everyone, first post here on TL.
I'm not a big fan of cheese myself, but I got curious about the overreaction possibilities. How about, say, as P I build my second pylon a bit earlier in their base, watch as they scramble all workers to stop it, cancel before it finishes and continue with whatever I was doing before? You could get a slight economic advantage, throw off the opponent's build, etc. Could this work or the investment (delayed pylon at the main, 100 minerals "lost in the warp" for a short time) is too big?
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First off, thank you to everyone who has provided feedback in this thread, both positive and negative. If you hate cannon rushes, hopefully this will show you how to smash those dirty cheesers when they try it. If you love cannon rushing, hopefully this will help you do it better.
The tips and strategies that you have shared have already helped me to learn more about this problem space, and I appreciate you sharing your insights.
Your "send 4 probes to kill whatever is building" suggestion is well taken, but what do you do when rusher probe starts building 2-3 cannons/pylons at once? He can still cancel just as effectively, and 4 probes can't do damage fast enough to kill them all before finishing.
You send 4 probes for each cannon he is building. So, if he is building 2, you send 4 to the first one, 4 to the second one. If you don't have enough probes to spare, queue them up. So, send 4 to the first one, 4 to the second one, then queue the probes from the first one to go hit the third one after they are done.
Also, remember to queue the probes to return to mining after they are done. That way you don't have to babysit them.
If he does the rush right, he probably won't be able to build more than 3 cannons at once, because it is so early and the cost is so high. When I do this rush on 1v1 maps, it has usually failed or succeeded by the 4 minute mark. I just timed a rush against the AI, and it was gg by 4:12.
What is the timing on sending your first probe? Do you ever send a 2nd probe? How do you react if your probe is killed? Do you continuously build probes at your main? Do you chrono-boost probes at your main at all?
I usually send the probe at 9 after I build the pylon. It looks like a typical scouting probe because it is. Sometimes I will send a second probe, but usually I won't. There could be some room for experimentation with two probes, but I haven't done it.
If the probe dies, usually it will die early or it will die late. Either one is fine. If the probe dies late, and the attack cannons are up, its job is already done. If it dies early, then you cancel whatever is building and transition to something else. Usually you only lose the cancellation costs. What hurts is if you get the pylon up, then the probe dies. Now you are out the cost of the pylon as well as the cancellation of the cannons.
I don't send another probe if the first one dies. There will probably be more of whatever killed the first probe waiting for the second one when it arrives. Like any investment, you can't get married to your position. Once it starts tanking, dump it and move on.
Often, people will immediately counter attack, so I will build two cannons by the nexus, then start chronoboosting probes and teching like normal. I try to chronoboost probes at my main whenever possible so that I am not too far behind if and when this fails.
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i recently cannon rushed because i didnt want to face another mirror matchup. hate tossvstoss.
worked though. mid diamond.
so i don't mind a guide about cannon rush. it's just another tactic for your repertoire.
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I never cheese ever but this guide is pretty nice, it mentioned a lot of things. Most of them are common sense though 
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This guide made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
Entertaining read 
Kudos
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personally, I think the 2 gate in base proxy is much more effective than a cannon rush vs terran, and it really doesn't care all that much whether or not it's been scouted on maps like steppes of war.
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this is just hillarious. a comical read...really brought a smile on my face. i dno if i could EVER be considered legit if i did this all the time.
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I guess if you don't scout it, it's just your own fault. :x
That's why you should place your first pylon near your ramp to see the probe, when it enters your base. If it doesn't show up near your nexus you should search for it.
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high plat low diamond protoss beating off cannon rushes erry day.
Word.
On a side note, I thought everyone knew to send 4 probes to kill shit...
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Very good read! Equal parts of humor and flair. It reads almost like a self help book
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I've lost one too many times to the cannon rush. Nowadays I always scout my main and natural in pvp.
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Nice and funny Post.
However i would like to emphasize that cannon rushing is no cheese. Its a debatable strat but no cheese.
What i dont like is that you sound like an Asshole having fun of mocking about your opponents.
I dont think needless flaming mocking or harrasment is a good thing. Maybe you should refrain from such things. Will help you also when you leave school.
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I'd like to take a moment and thank this thread for allowing me to get my first 10 win streak.
Last night, EIGHT players tried to cannon rush me...all failing. In all fairness, one got close because I lost track of his drone and stupidly assumed he was just scouting and left. Although, I really don't see how this would be successful on any competent player. But maybe I'll learn soon enough
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Really? A cannon rush guide that's a novel long? wow...
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I read the whole OP but not the whole thread. Please pardon if I've repeated any questions.
1) Out of the current standard ladder maps, which ones work the best for Zerg?
2) As you're pumping probes in your main, how many probes do you recommend be on minerals? When do you recommend building the assimilator?
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EPT
