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On September 25 2010 06:40 Cyrik wrote:
@minigun:
are you sure you cant hold the proxy rax with a 13 gate?
i just tried your build with a 13 gate and one chrono boost on the cyber core and i get every unit out faster then you did in your vs drewbie game and i start my expo about 30-40 seconds earlier then you with the same units and 2 more probes.
cant upload the replay because every replay site hates vs computer games....
You are producing units faster than me, and able to put a expo up 30-40 seconds sooner?
That doesn't really add up :/.
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On September 25 2010 06:48 Yaotzin wrote:You don't FE when you're being proxied :0:0
You see 1 rax with a tech lab, nothing else, then the marine kills your probe, how will you know if youre being proxied?
On September 25 2010 07:39 Minigun wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 06:40 Cyrik wrote:
@minigun:
are you sure you cant hold the proxy rax with a 13 gate?
i just tried your build with a 13 gate and one chrono boost on the cyber core and i get every unit out faster then you did in your vs drewbie game and i start my expo about 30-40 seconds earlier then you with the same units and 2 more probes.
cant upload the replay because every replay site hates vs computer games.... You are producing units faster than me, and able to put a expo up 30-40 seconds sooner? That doesn't really add up :/.
He's right, your expo is late compared to the 1 gate FE's I've played against.
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On September 25 2010 08:23 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 06:48 Yaotzin wrote:On September 25 2010 06:40 ChickenLips wrote:So I've seen Fuzer do this fancy new build that completely destroys anything 1 gate x. Here are the replays: http://www.esl.eu/eu/sc2/go4sc2/cup40/download/23231818/http://www.esl.eu/eu/sc2/go4sc2/cup40/download/23231817/Basically 1 rax with techlab and 2 proxied rax near the opponents base just funneling Marauders with concussive and Marines at his opponent. Since 1 Marauder > 1 Stalker and 1 Marauder > lotsa zealots with good control the Protoss just dies, like it seems. I wonder how this does against a 1 gate FE. You don't FE when you're being proxied :0:0 You see 1 rax with a tech lab, nothing else, then the marine kills your probe, how will you know if youre being proxied? Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 07:39 Minigun wrote:On September 25 2010 06:40 Cyrik wrote:
@minigun:
are you sure you cant hold the proxy rax with a 13 gate?
i just tried your build with a 13 gate and one chrono boost on the cyber core and i get every unit out faster then you did in your vs drewbie game and i start my expo about 30-40 seconds earlier then you with the same units and 2 more probes.
cant upload the replay because every replay site hates vs computer games.... You are producing units faster than me, and able to put a expo up 30-40 seconds sooner? That doesn't really add up :/. He's right, your expo is late compared to the 1 gate FE's I've played against.
He may do it sooner, but there is no way he is outproducing me and feing faster >_> .
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i just must suck, the early stim rush by T kills my expo everytime :/
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I just wanna say thanks for all the replays you put up Minigun they are all really helpful to watch.
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@minigun:
i´ll post a replay tomorrow. cant find a site that lets me upload one against the ai...
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![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-151913.jpg)
i screwed up a bit, but you can see that my units come out the same time as yours but my expo is 40 sec earlier and i have a few more probes by that time
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On September 26 2010 01:07 Cyrik wrote:i screwed up a bit, but you can see that my units come out the same time as yours but my expo is 40 sec earlier and i have a few more probes by that time
Oh okay, I could believe that, I didn't have constant probe production, I just knew you couldn't have more units and be expoing faster.
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Are there any good 1600+ pt terrans that want to test this? If so send me a pm or add me char code 865 name minigun
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yeah i dont have the first 5 units faster then you, but my expo/gates/robo go up 40 sec earlier so the following units are out faster and the first 5 have the same timing as yours.
if there´s no proxy or something strange which kills my 13 gate and not your 12 gate you should really switch
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the only problem is that you can't safely open with a 13 gate on a 2 player map, proxy reaper rushes are an incredible pain when you do that, but if you go 10 gate and CB a zealot during your core it's pretty much an auto-win after you fend it off assuming you didn't make any mistakes...
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On September 26 2010 06:24 Cyrik wrote:yeah i dont have the first 5 units faster then you, but my expo/gates/robo go up 40 sec earlier so the following units are out faster and the first 5 have the same timing as yours. if there´s no proxy or something strange which kills my 13 gate and not your 12 gate you should really switch
It's really not worth it imo, fast marines or marauders will kill you if done right.
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On September 26 2010 07:51 Minigun wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 06:24 Cyrik wrote:yeah i dont have the first 5 units faster then you, but my expo/gates/robo go up 40 sec earlier so the following units are out faster and the first 5 have the same timing as yours. if there´s no proxy or something strange which kills my 13 gate and not your 12 gate you should really switch It's really not worth it imo, fast marines or marauders will kill you if done right.
Nope they won't, I find a fast Nexus much harder to break since it tanks damage and I cannot deny his expo with the 3 marauder 2 marine 2 SCV push if his stuff is down the ramp already. Also the few units that arrive while the Nexus is building dont have enough DPS to kill it before sufficient reinforcements arrive.
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On September 26 2010 08:06 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 07:51 Minigun wrote:On September 26 2010 06:24 Cyrik wrote:yeah i dont have the first 5 units faster then you, but my expo/gates/robo go up 40 sec earlier so the following units are out faster and the first 5 have the same timing as yours. if there´s no proxy or something strange which kills my 13 gate and not your 12 gate you should really switch It's really not worth it imo, fast marines or marauders will kill you if done right. Nope they won't, I find a fast Nexus much harder to break since it tanks damage and I cannot deny his expo with the 3 marauder 2 marine 2 SCV push if his stuff is down the ramp already. Also the few units that arrive while the Nexus is building dont have enough DPS to kill it before sufficient reinforcements arrive.
I'm talking fast marines, or marauders, as in the very first one is sent with the rest being rallied.
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ah i see the problem now. i didnt watch your replays to closely before the gate finishes. you supply block yourself every game with your 17 core then 17 pylon. thats why you have to chrono boost your zealot the whole way.
in contrast i put my pylon down at 16 so that i can start the zealot right when i have 100 minerals. that way i only have to chrono boost the last third, get my zealot out at the same time as you even though i have a later gate and my first chrono boost helps half of my first stalker. this means i have nearly a full chrono boost more then you, which i throw on the warpegate tech. other then that i have one probe more, which gives me enough money to start my nexus 40 seconds earlier with the same amount of units.
you should really try throwing down your pylon on 16 especially if you stick with the 12 gate
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How do You defend against a 2 rax, 1 with reactor and 1 with tech lab and 1 startport with reactor in a push at 9 minutes? It stopped me cold and he barely lose anything.
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On September 27 2010 05:01 Manlot wrote:
How do You defend against a 2 rax, 1 with reactor and 1 with tech lab and 1 startport with reactor in a push at 9 minutes? It stopped me cold and he barely lose anything.
How are we supposed to know what you did wrong without a replay.
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I have been using this build exclusively for pvt, but I go for a 14 gate like in the OP
14 gate
15 assim
16 pylon
19 zealot (after probe)
22 pylon (if you don't lose your scouting probe you need to place this asap or you will supply block on probes)
stalker (CB) + warpgate
[CB stalker for 1 rax pushes, CB an additional zealot if they are going proxy fac or you are under pressure]
expo
33-34 pylon at natrual
I haven't exactly figured out this part
3-rax:
3 more gates (probe cut)
1 more gate
TC reasonably quickly and second gas
survive until charge
1/1/1
2 more gates (probe cut if position is close)
robotics facility
1 more gate
TC
charge for everthing except heavy banshee play.
1 rax expo
3 more gates (slowly no probe cut at all)
TC
1 more gate
charge
Templar Archive
Storm
The bolded elements are the part of the builds, where the optimal order is uncertain. Are there any flaws,improvments, or optimizations that could be made to this build. Can a 14 gate hold the array of cheeses?
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On September 27 2010 05:09 Minigun wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2010 05:01 Manlot wrote:
How do You defend against a 2 rax, 1 with reactor and 1 with tech lab and 1 startport with reactor in a push at 9 minutes? It stopped me cold and he barely lose anything. How are we supposed to know what you did wrong without a replay.
Sorry about that, here is the Replay
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On September 27 2010 06:57 Manlot wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2010 05:09 Minigun wrote:On September 27 2010 05:01 Manlot wrote:
How do You defend against a 2 rax, 1 with reactor and 1 with tech lab and 1 startport with reactor in a push at 9 minutes? It stopped me cold and he barely lose anything. How are we supposed to know what you did wrong without a replay. Sorry about that, here is the Replay
You just need to make your build better and get more units. I really don't like fast Robo after gate, your 2nd and 3rd were really late. If you actually try to test it out you need an observer around 8:00 to fend off banshees, if you go 3G Robo then 4th it should give you the observer on time.
You can also actually guess what he is doing with your first stalker scouting at his front, banshee rush often means no marauders.
I personnaly prefer getting an earlier 2nd gaz (when core finishes) to get sentries which I feel are very strong to actually counter early bio pushs.
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EPT
