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On September 04 2010 13:48 kasuya wrote:one of the strong sides of this build, is having 2 nexus for chrono boosting, in that last game u didn't use ur second nexus at all... Think about it  also, ur Terran Fast Expanded too, wich kinda ruins this tactic, as he has stronger economy than u do with the MULE x2.. wasn't a bad play tho, too bad about the colossi being stuck jaja Edit: Use ur FFs to avoid terran kite ur zealots, if u FF behind terran army, they will be destroyed by ur zealots.
Eh, not really.
While it means you won't be in a DOMINANT position, having a FE up as Toss is much more important then a Terran laying one down. If you can tech to HT, you'll be set.
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LOL i just watched the replay, i cant fucking belive i won after i suply blocked myself while my first collos was about to be made. i waited for that collos to attack then it got fucking stuck i had to kill a gateway to get it out, i cant fucking belive i won after that mistake. that mistake cost me a full 2mins at which point i had triple his army prior to the mistake but then it was even. wow that was close.
**EDIT***
Its fucking great that a terran army of all tier 1 units with 2 medivacks can beat a tier 1+2+3 army of equal amount (given i made alot of mistakes with my micro during the battle)
But still my army should of been able to a-move into his base and just roll it.
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well, in the first attack at 18min mark, ur first collosi didn't exactly A-move... he was simply moving, and was a free kill, also ur second collosi got sniped from a MMM in the front of ur base.
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On September 04 2010 14:04 kasuya wrote:
well, in the first attack at 18min mark, ur first collosi didn't exactly A-move... he was simply moving, and was a free kill, also ur second collosi got sniped from a MMM in the front of ur base.
Yeah i know both times i had double tapped my warp gates to warp in more units and by the time i got back to my army i tried to pull the collos away but it was to late, second time i did the same thing but i had no idea that collos was even on the move, i was fumbleing because i didnt want him floating to a island so i was pumping VRs
and i still have a issue with my templars pushing through my ranged units to get good storms in. i only get good storms like 50% of the time not sure what im doing wrong there
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Yeah I do basically this same thing when I see the Terran is cross position from me on a large map, although you still have to scout and make sure he isn't pushing really early with marine/marauders/hellions (some combo of those). WhiteRa actually used to do this a bit and probably still does. Also Day[9] just did a daily on it a few days ago if anyone wants to look into it a bit further.
It does work very well if you know what to scout for, as the original poster explained.
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Okay, I finally got hit by a push that I can't seem to stop with this build. It hits at 9:30 on steppes with 2 ghosts with emp, 23 marines stim, 5 marauders with concussive shell and stim, and 18 scvs. At that point I had 14 stalkers, 4 sentries, and 7 zealots. The scvs tank so much damage that my zealots are gone by the time they die, and then its just stalkers that just got hit by EMP vs 23 stimmed marines and 5 stimmed marauders with 2 ghosts. I forgot to use guardian shield before I got hit by emp, but the battle was so one-sided that I don't know how much of a difference it could have been. Any ideas on what to do?
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On September 04 2010 16:10 iamke55 wrote:
Okay, I finally got hit by a push that I can't seem to stop with this build. It hits at 9:30 on steppes with 2 ghosts with emp, 23 marines stim, 5 marauders with concussive shell and stim, and 18 scvs. At that point I had 14 stalkers, 4 sentries, and 7 zealots. The scvs tank so much damage that my zealots are gone by the time they die, and then its just stalkers that just got hit by EMP vs 23 stimmed marines and 5 stimmed marauders with 2 ghosts. I forgot to use guardian shield before I got hit by emp, but the battle was so one-sided that I don't know how much of a difference it could have been. Any ideas on what to do?
If he pulled scvs, I think you probably should have pulled probes. Maybe try to get into a position where you can hold of the rest of his army with forcefields while you take care of the scvs.
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On September 04 2010 16:14 RailGuN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2010 16:10 iamke55 wrote:
Okay, I finally got hit by a push that I can't seem to stop with this build. It hits at 9:30 on steppes with 2 ghosts with emp, 23 marines stim, 5 marauders with concussive shell and stim, and 18 scvs. At that point I had 14 stalkers, 4 sentries, and 7 zealots. The scvs tank so much damage that my zealots are gone by the time they die, and then its just stalkers that just got hit by EMP vs 23 stimmed marines and 5 stimmed marauders with 2 ghosts. I forgot to use guardian shield before I got hit by emp, but the battle was so one-sided that I don't know how much of a difference it could have been. Any ideas on what to do? If he pulled scvs, I think you probably should have pulled probes. Maybe try to get into a position where you can hold of the rest of his army with forcefields while you take care of the scvs.
Actually I didn't think of preemptively pulling all my probes, but you are right. This attack was so all in that I had double the terran's worker count, so bringing all of my probes, along with remembering to use guardian shield, would've been enough to win. Still not 100% though as the terran sent his barracks units ahead of his scvs to kill my scouting probes so I didn't know he brought his workers.
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On September 04 2010 16:10 iamke55 wrote:
Okay, I finally got hit by a push that I can't seem to stop with this build. It hits at 9:30 on steppes with 2 ghosts with emp, 23 marines stim, 5 marauders with concussive shell and stim, and 18 scvs. At that point I had 14 stalkers, 4 sentries, and 7 zealots. The scvs tank so much damage that my zealots are gone by the time they die, and then its just stalkers that just got hit by EMP vs 23 stimmed marines and 5 stimmed marauders with 2 ghosts. I forgot to use guardian shield before I got hit by emp, but the battle was so one-sided that I don't know how much of a difference it could have been. Any ideas on what to do?
I think I've been hit by that before(also 2medivacs in that army, though, but 24marines/5marauders/2ghost as well. the guy pulled only like 7 scvs, though, not 18), and at that time I lost - and it influenced a lot of adaptations for future, such as having 4th/5th gate done be 09:20 against one base bio push, getting a little bit more even mix of stalkers/zealots, warping in nearly zealot-only after charge is about 90%. I feel like now I should be able to defend it and scout it early enough for all the adaptations, but haven't met it again, so far.
The possible tactics that should help in the battle is, FFing the front if he's bringing most of his SCVs and just delaying the battle as much as possible.
If he's lacking medivacs, just engage him in center with stalkers, force a stim or kite some marines, and run away with 1-2 FFs.
At your natural, keep all the stalkers in a concave to optimize shooting, zealots in a spread line too, sentries between zealots and stalkers. Should allow for FFs behind the army(if they did not bring scvs this prevents kiting and lets chargelots do their job), GS on zealots.
Also, a colossus follow up instead of charge _could_ be viable, wih 1obs->bay->2nd obs->collosus and earlier extra gases. I didn't explore it much, with most of the terrans going for banshees or raven openings, and marauder-heavy if they're sticking to bio.
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soulforged could you post a few replays of your variation of the build pls? thx
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Late saturday night game so kinda fucked up but thats besides the point.
ANNNNYWAYYYY
Im starting to get a little better with my FE build, im only at 600+point diamond but w/e
**(edit)**** OOOO just checked im at 700+ now BIG TIME WHAT WHAT!!!
So any advice would b sweet
**EDIT***awit wait wtf thats not it
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-146229.jpg)
^^^ THERE WE GO!
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![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-146470.jpg)
Getting a little better at this FE build, feels alot more clean.
Although i do think that for-going the robo bay on large maps and teching HT is a better option.
Can anyone give me some advice on my replay?
Im just wondering if my timmings are on point to where i can properly defend my expo vs a well timed terran ball.
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Dang seems like I found the popular time to post replays for advice lol
Last night I lost to a 3 rax late-ish timing push. I was sort of baffled at the time how he had so much stuff when I had been so on top of my macro in this game. One thing I specifically remember not doing is ever actually looking at what my observer was telling me. I did spot his push coming at the middle of the map and I felt like I had plenty of stuff, but I just got instantly steamrolled.
What I think I should've done differently was make less units right after my FE finished and get twilight council out for a really fast charge. Also I should've gotten my 4th gate up a lot sooner and probably had my 5th finished by the time his push came. Anyone care to take a look at my replay and tell me if I'm right/wrong and offer me any other advice? I'm 700ish diamond so I certainly have a lot of improving to do =)
Also, ignore the whining at the end, out of the 12 games I played last night, this was my 9th loss so I was just frustrated.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-146572.jpg)
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I've been having this medivac marine push that comes with ~4 medivacs and 35 marines. Basically if you FE you can't scout to be able to safely straight blind RUSH for collolus which i think comes out barely get it in time. Basically you go expo +2 more gates + robo because you saw the terran not build marauders and bunker up. Marine medicav seems to be just too much for gateway units, storm would be nice, except that it takes even longer than collolus to get to, and the marine/medivac push is rather timely. Any way to scout or deal with this?
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On September 06 2010 09:22 Chronopolis wrote:
I've been having this medivac marine push that comes with ~4 medivacs and 35 marines. Basically if you FE you can't scout to be able to safely straight blind RUSH for collolus which i think comes out barely get it in time. Basically you go expo +2 more gates + robo because you saw the terran not build marauders and bunker up. Marine medicav seems to be just too much for gateway units, storm would be nice, except that it takes even longer than collolus to get to, and the marine/medivac push is rather timely. Any way to scout or deal with this?
I've found just blindly getting charge ASAP after expanding handles early bio pushes of any kind really well. I haven't faced this one though so the timing may be faster than the other pushes I'm used to seeing.
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On September 06 2010 09:01 altairian wrote:Dang seems like I found the popular time to post replays for advice lol Last night I lost to a 3 rax late-ish timing push. I was sort of baffled at the time how he had so much stuff when I had been so on top of my macro in this game. One thing I specifically remember not doing is ever actually looking at what my observer was telling me. I did spot his push coming at the middle of the map and I felt like I had plenty of stuff, but I just got instantly steamrolled. What I think I should've done differently was make less units right after my FE finished and get twilight council out for a really fast charge. Also I should've gotten my 4th gate up a lot sooner and probably had my 5th finished by the time his push came. Anyone care to take a look at my replay and tell me if I'm right/wrong and offer me any other advice? I'm 700ish diamond so I certainly have a lot of improving to do =) Also, ignore the whining at the end, out of the 12 games I played last night, this was my 9th loss so I was just frustrated.
Well first IMO i dont get the zealot and i chronoboost a stalker asap. I also do not get the third pylon befor i start my 24 nexus
Second you didnt even have the nexus started untill well after 30 suply, i start mine at 24 including my stalker, this gets the expo up ALOT faster and at a time where if he responds to your expo with a push he will only have 3 marines or 1 marine 1 marauder to your stalker and a sentry. At which time you can chrono out a zealot (which u should do anyway)
***NOTE*** u started expo at 34 suply, with 1 zealot 2 stalker and 1 zealot almost done. you also waited untill you had over 400 minerals to grab probe and by the time u got there u had enough to drop a pylon as well, also you started warpgate tech prior to your nexus
This caused your 2nd gate to also come out late, usually right after my nexus i drop my second gateway, you did the same thing but im dropping a 2nd gateway at 26 suply while u were at 34
Also during the battle it was marine+maruader i think u said medivak so maybe this was the wrong replay?
Anyway you got ownd pretty hard by that push because #1 u didnt have enough sentry for guard sheild and #2 u allowed yourself to get kited instead of falling back at the same time of this back-attack move. If you do this your not gonna catch him since u didnt have charge. You should of been able to stall him by moving back and not engaging as well as using FF to stall untill charge was done and then engage, untill then u have no chance vs that push
SIDE NOTE*** u should be getting charge befor your robo bay, considering charge is what makes your gateway units usefull in PvT, not one of your zealots even reached his front line, putting you at a 1,200 mineral deficiate in this fight which is pretty big when you FE and need every unit to do its job to its fullest ability due to the fact you will be behind in army and need to out micro the first attack.
Use sentries.
With a little more work and a little more tweaking your BO times youll be fine.
Charge+continued warping would of defended this push.
Also dont forget to use DOUBLE-NEXUS-CHRONOBOOSTED GATEWAYS to warp in units to defend, one of this builds biggest aspects is the fact with 2 nexus's u can have 100 energy total saved by the time the T arrives allows you to chronoboost your warpgates (all of them) while still chronoboosting your charge ability.
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On September 06 2010 10:30 Unosnow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 09:01 altairian wrote:Dang seems like I found the popular time to post replays for advice lol Last night I lost to a 3 rax late-ish timing push. I was sort of baffled at the time how he had so much stuff when I had been so on top of my macro in this game. One thing I specifically remember not doing is ever actually looking at what my observer was telling me. I did spot his push coming at the middle of the map and I felt like I had plenty of stuff, but I just got instantly steamrolled. What I think I should've done differently was make less units right after my FE finished and get twilight council out for a really fast charge. Also I should've gotten my 4th gate up a lot sooner and probably had my 5th finished by the time his push came. Anyone care to take a look at my replay and tell me if I'm right/wrong and offer me any other advice? I'm 700ish diamond so I certainly have a lot of improving to do =) Also, ignore the whining at the end, out of the 12 games I played last night, this was my 9th loss so I was just frustrated. Well first IMO i dont get the zealot and i chronoboost a stalker asap. I also do not get the third pylon befor i start my 24 nexus Second you didnt even have the nexus started untill well after 30 suply, i start mine at 24 including my stalker, this gets the expo up ALOT faster and at a time where if he responds to your expo with a push he will only have 3 marines or 1 marine 1 marauder to your stalker and a sentry. At which time you can chrono out a zealot (which u should do anyway) ***NOTE*** u started expo at 34 suply, with 1 zealot 2 stalker and 1 zealot almost done. you also waited untill you had over 400 minerals to grab probe and by the time u got there u had enough to drop a pylon as well, also you started warpgate tech prior to your nexus This caused your 2nd gate to also come out late, usually right after my nexus i drop my second gateway, you did the same thing but im dropping a 2nd gateway at 26 suply while u were at 34 Also during the battle it was marine+maruader i think u said medivak so maybe this was the wrong replay? Anyway you got ownd pretty hard by that push because #1 u didnt have enough sentry for guard sheild and #2 u allowed yourself to get kited instead of falling back at the same time of this back-attack move. If you do this your not gonna catch him since u didnt have charge. You should of been able to stall him by moving back and not engaging as well as using FF to stall untill charge was done and then engage, untill then u have no chance vs that push SIDE NOTE*** u should be getting charge befor your robo bay, considering charge is what makes your gateway units usefull in PvT, not one of your zealots even reached his front line, putting you at a 1,200 mineral deficiate in this fight which is pretty big when you FE and need every unit to do its job to its fullest ability due to the fact you will be behind in army and need to out micro the first attack. Use sentries. With a little more work and a little more tweaking your BO times youll be fine. Charge+continued warping would of defended this push. Also dont forget to use DOUBLE-NEXUS-CHRONOBOOSTED GATEWAYS to warp in units to defend, one of this builds biggest aspects is the fact with 2 nexus's u can have 100 energy total saved by the time the T arrives allows you to chronoboost your warpgates (all of them) while still chronoboosting your charge ability.
Hoo boy. Lot of bad advice in this comment IMO. Build the zealot before core finishes and constantly produce units. You should hit 400 minerals for nexus at ~30 food. It could happen at 28 or so if your production timings are a bit off, or as high as 32 if you're really on top of chronoing out units. I'll cut units for a few seconds to start the nexus at 30 tho.
Also, don't use sentries early. Early medivac pushes can force sentries, but you really want to save the gas to get HT ASAP. Only make sentries as a mid-game response to early medivac kiting.
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On September 06 2010 12:25 kcdc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 10:30 Unosnow wrote:On September 06 2010 09:01 altairian wrote:Dang seems like I found the popular time to post replays for advice lol Last night I lost to a 3 rax late-ish timing push. I was sort of baffled at the time how he had so much stuff when I had been so on top of my macro in this game. One thing I specifically remember not doing is ever actually looking at what my observer was telling me. I did spot his push coming at the middle of the map and I felt like I had plenty of stuff, but I just got instantly steamrolled. What I think I should've done differently was make less units right after my FE finished and get twilight council out for a really fast charge. Also I should've gotten my 4th gate up a lot sooner and probably had my 5th finished by the time his push came. Anyone care to take a look at my replay and tell me if I'm right/wrong and offer me any other advice? I'm 700ish diamond so I certainly have a lot of improving to do =) Also, ignore the whining at the end, out of the 12 games I played last night, this was my 9th loss so I was just frustrated. Well first IMO i dont get the zealot and i chronoboost a stalker asap. I also do not get the third pylon befor i start my 24 nexus Second you didnt even have the nexus started untill well after 30 suply, i start mine at 24 including my stalker, this gets the expo up ALOT faster and at a time where if he responds to your expo with a push he will only have 3 marines or 1 marine 1 marauder to your stalker and a sentry. At which time you can chrono out a zealot (which u should do anyway) ***NOTE*** u started expo at 34 suply, with 1 zealot 2 stalker and 1 zealot almost done. you also waited untill you had over 400 minerals to grab probe and by the time u got there u had enough to drop a pylon as well, also you started warpgate tech prior to your nexus This caused your 2nd gate to also come out late, usually right after my nexus i drop my second gateway, you did the same thing but im dropping a 2nd gateway at 26 suply while u were at 34 Also during the battle it was marine+maruader i think u said medivak so maybe this was the wrong replay? Anyway you got ownd pretty hard by that push because #1 u didnt have enough sentry for guard sheild and #2 u allowed yourself to get kited instead of falling back at the same time of this back-attack move. If you do this your not gonna catch him since u didnt have charge. You should of been able to stall him by moving back and not engaging as well as using FF to stall untill charge was done and then engage, untill then u have no chance vs that push SIDE NOTE*** u should be getting charge befor your robo bay, considering charge is what makes your gateway units usefull in PvT, not one of your zealots even reached his front line, putting you at a 1,200 mineral deficiate in this fight which is pretty big when you FE and need every unit to do its job to its fullest ability due to the fact you will be behind in army and need to out micro the first attack. Use sentries. With a little more work and a little more tweaking your BO times youll be fine. Charge+continued warping would of defended this push. Also dont forget to use DOUBLE-NEXUS-CHRONOBOOSTED GATEWAYS to warp in units to defend, one of this builds biggest aspects is the fact with 2 nexus's u can have 100 energy total saved by the time the T arrives allows you to chronoboost your warpgates (all of them) while still chronoboosting your charge ability. Hoo boy. Lot of bad advice in this comment IMO. Build the zealot before core finishes and constantly produce units. You should hit 400 minerals for nexus at ~30 food. It could happen at 28 or so if your production timings are a bit off, or as high as 32 if you're really on top of chronoing out units. I'll cut units for a few seconds to start the nexus at 30 tho. Also, don't use sentries early. Early medivac pushes can force sentries, but you really want to save the gas to get HT ASAP. Only make sentries as a mid-game response to early medivac kiting.
I actually have been laddering protoss again, using this strategy every game. I like to get 1 sentry early, after my stalker or after 2. It frees up some minerals and you'll want that sentry for any push. The earlier its out the more energy itll have and the more FFs you'll have for less cost. Also they do just as well at holding off early marauder aggression builds as stalkers (actually a little better with that FF).
I've been expoing at like 28 food because I have more mins from the sentry. I have been skipping the early lot quite a bit though if scouting says its safe. It does allow a faster nexus.
On a side note, I did lose to a 4 rax marine allin on close spots delta quad. I think the proper response is to cancel the nexus (if possible) or at least let it die. Just stick to 1 base (as you would vs 2 fact) and tech colossi (no gas on terran means 1 colossus will be out before he can even think of having vikings). Forcefields and stalkers can hold the ramp easily while you wait for that coli. The build he used was significantly faster than I expected (I also didn't get a scout in his base cause I got unlucky and scouted him last). The 4 rax allin works, but it's a total chz and I believe there is still recovery vs it, not a total BO loss (4 gate collosus counter allin).
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EPT
