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On August 11 2010 00:31 Bair wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 00:01 junemermaid wrote:On August 03 2010 10:47 zomgtossrush wrote:Me and my friend were talking about this issue just last week. Since Terrans have BC's which are the late game "omgrapetastic" option. In which you can make a few of.. Toss has a solo mothership with super "tech" advantages... What does zerg have? you could argue broodlords or ultras, but they dont have that "unique" characteristic that seperates them from the other 2 races. What if the zerg has something to expand their supply? Of course we could debate forever by how much, but lets just say...35? It feels very swarm like. It would solve alot of issues players have with the roach supply count and such. The only problem would be to figure out what that something would be. Something air? something unit? some building, like post-hive? Of course we didn't put TOO much thought into this, but thats what the forums(and you guys) can do for us  I was thinking of this last night as well... If having lair tech boosts max supply by 25, and hive another 25, zerg could potentially stand up to late game pressure. It still doesn't really solve the defensive style of play that zerg is FORCED into, but it does relieve some pressure on the late game such that Terran (and protoss to some extent) can't sit in their base until they're maxed out. It also helps mitigate the fact that zerg usually needs +1 expansion to stay on par with protoss & terran. Let me re-phrase that: one saturated expansion. Which means about 30 drones that are not combat units. An additional 50 supply (the actual number isn't the point of the discussion, just the mechanic) for Hive tech would help curb the excessive drone count for Zerg players. I think the biggest problem about ZvT/P is the creep mechanic, to be honest. While it might seem amazing for Zerg players, it really just hinders them and forces them to play passively. Hydralisks and roaches (to some extent) are slow as sin off creep. This discourages aggressive styles of play against other races. It also discourages the opponent to attack the Zerg who is actively spreading creep because hydralisks and roaches are out of control on the creep. This type of stale-mate position is innately built into the ZvP matchups. The zerg merrily sits on their creep, massing hydras and roaches, and waits for the Protoss to attack. If the zerg moves off the creep in an attempt to make a move against Protoss, colossus or high templar murder hydralisks, not to mention sentry FF's. I think the creep mechanic works well, especially lore-wise. The slowly advancing unstoppable zerg. Of course slowly advancing unstoppable force sounds like siege tanks, but still, you get the idea. Zerg is not as bad off as people think. It is hard for them to get to tier 3, but then the get the best unit in the game: The ultralisk. Honestly, a fully upgraded ultraling force is nigh unstoppable by toss and terran. Terran straight up has no answer except banshees, which get murdered by a muta or 3, and the only decent unit toss has is the archon, which is even *more* expensive than an ultralisk. Factor in that you should be outmacroing them as zerg and GG.
Thors/Hellions can beat Ultra/ling pretty easily.
P has immortals and zealots, both of which destroy ultras.
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On August 10 2010 19:43 Oleksandr wrote:Damn it, I wish I didn't love Zerg so much, so that I could switch and play another race. Oh, well.
Same here. I used to play zerg in BW because it was the swarm. An incredible attack force. Wave after wave of pounding.
But, now I don't have that feeling and even worse, I have no choices when it comes to units to react to the oponent build.
I honestly don't know why I still play zerg, I need more APM, more focus, more bases. better micro AND better macro to win.
The terran just needs 2 bases, air superiority and leap froging tanks.
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Terran turtling is hard to deal with as any race. Defeating it requires innovation, but I find that playing the macro game and taking all of the bases around him is really the best way. There are many ways to defeat a turtling Terran, but sending 200/200 food army at his turtle repeatedly is not the way. I've noticed a lot of posts where people say "I sent 200/200 at his tanks and all my stuff died. I did it again and it happened again!"
That's never the way to deal with turtling Terrans. Seeing those posts.. Hurts me inside a little.
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On August 11 2010 00:31 Bair wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 00:01 junemermaid wrote:On August 03 2010 10:47 zomgtossrush wrote:Me and my friend were talking about this issue just last week. Since Terrans have BC's which are the late game "omgrapetastic" option. In which you can make a few of.. Toss has a solo mothership with super "tech" advantages... What does zerg have? you could argue broodlords or ultras, but they dont have that "unique" characteristic that seperates them from the other 2 races. What if the zerg has something to expand their supply? Of course we could debate forever by how much, but lets just say...35? It feels very swarm like. It would solve alot of issues players have with the roach supply count and such. The only problem would be to figure out what that something would be. Something air? something unit? some building, like post-hive? Of course we didn't put TOO much thought into this, but thats what the forums(and you guys) can do for us I was thinking of this last night as well... If having lair tech boosts max supply by 25, and hive another 25, zerg could potentially stand up to late game pressure. It still doesn't really solve the defensive style of play that zerg is FORCED into, but it does relieve some pressure on the late game such that Terran (and protoss to some extent) can't sit in their base until they're maxed out. It also helps mitigate the fact that zerg usually needs +1 expansion to stay on par with protoss & terran. Let me re-phrase that: one saturated expansion. Which means about 30 drones that are not combat units. An additional 50 supply (the actual number isn't the point of the discussion, just the mechanic) for Hive tech would help curb the excessive drone count for Zerg players. I think the biggest problem about ZvT/P is the creep mechanic, to be honest. While it might seem amazing for Zerg players, it really just hinders them and forces them to play passively. Hydralisks and roaches (to some extent) are slow as sin off creep. This discourages aggressive styles of play against other races. It also discourages the opponent to attack the Zerg who is actively spreading creep because hydralisks and roaches are out of control on the creep. This type of stale-mate position is innately built into the ZvP matchups. The zerg merrily sits on their creep, massing hydras and roaches, and waits for the Protoss to attack. If the zerg moves off the creep in an attempt to make a move against Protoss, colossus or high templar murder hydralisks, not to mention sentry FF's. I think the creep mechanic works well, especially lore-wise. The slowly advancing unstoppable zerg. Of course slowly advancing unstoppable force sounds like siege tanks, but still, you get the idea. Zerg is not as bad off as people think. It is hard for them to get to tier 3, but then the get the best unit in the game: The ultralisk. Honestly, a fully upgraded ultraling force is nigh unstoppable by toss and terran. Terran straight up has no answer except banshees, which get murdered by a muta or 3, and the only decent unit toss has is the archon, which is even *more* expensive than an ultralisk. Factor in that you should be outmacroing them as zerg and GG.
I mean, zerg units are Okay off creep, but why would you push out off the creep, intentionally gimping your units? You have to be absolutely certain that you're winning the engagement as retreat is a very hard option because of the fast units Terran has (hellion, stimmed bio) or Protoss (stalkers + blink, chargelots) compared to the hydra, which has the same speed as a sentry off-creep.
No, its much more safe to play on the creep where zerg can get quick arcs and retreat effectively rather than play a risky aggressive style in which a bad battle turns into an instant loss. Making creep highways is one way to play aggressively, but the overlords are oh-so vulnerable. Spreading creep tumors basically is how Zerg slowly regains map control after early game. Speedlings & blings only work up to a certain point for map control, but eventually it gets conceded to competent Terran / Protoss players. This is pretty evident in the tons of high level zerg replays (idra, Sen) where the scope of their army is limited to where the creep is. Hell, why should zerg move out of their comfort zone and intentionally reduce mobility? Given, high level zerg players are good at spreading creep, but once those creep tumors start to fall cuz of obs, the mobility of the zerg player is cut down considerably.
Just my two cents on seeing the army-movement trends in ZvX
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On August 11 2010 00:40 fdsdfg wrote:
Thors/Hellions can beat Ultra/ling pretty easily.
P has immortals and zealots, both of which destroy ultras.
This. Not that Ultralisks aren't amazing, as they certainly are, but they aren't the end-all to ZvT and ZvP play. They just force T out of tank mech and P out of Stalker Colossus.
Something I've noticed is that once Z gets proper Hive tech up, they can start dictating play by Nydusing immobile Terrans, switching between air and ground (BL/Muta versus Ultraling) to mess up Protoss, sending Speedlings everywhere, and so on. No, Zerg can't simply 1a into a guarded choke, but little backdoor strategies become much more potent once your opponent is forced to expand outward or risk starving to death.
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Lately I've been rolling with a aggressive opener that stops most early standard T pushes.
Here is a replay that shows what I do exactly. Starts with some early roach, transitions to muta/ling/infestor
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-137518.jpg)
Diamond Level replay, not pro level.
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This thread is a violation of rule #2 of the "Starcraft 2 Strategy" forum
- Nothing is imba. If you found something imba, it's most likely not. Find a counter. This is no place for balance discussion.
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On August 11 2010 01:03 Macabre wrote:Lately I've been rolling with a aggressive opener that stops most early standard T pushes. Here is a replay that shows what I do exactly. Starts with some early roach, transitions to muta/ling/infestor Diamond Level replay, not pro level.
I'm trying the same.. more 1 base, expand around 35 strats. They seem to be working well (high plat lvl). I usually open with bling bust (which may or may not end the game) then transition to roaches whilst expanding. Works pretty solid to defend off pushes after bling bust. Also may force him to go the MM route in order to fend off bling, in which case muta are then effective. Aggressiveness is key. I've been very successfull with aggressive openings.
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On August 11 2010 00:58 Acritter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 00:40 fdsdfg wrote:
Thors/Hellions can beat Ultra/ling pretty easily.
P has immortals and zealots, both of which destroy ultras. This. Not that Ultralisks aren't amazing, as they certainly are, but they aren't the end-all to ZvT and ZvP play. They just force T out of tank mech and P out of Stalker Colossus. Something I've noticed is that once Z gets proper Hive tech up, they can start dictating play by Nydusing immobile Terrans, switching between air and ground (BL/Muta versus Ultraling) to mess up Protoss, sending Speedlings everywhere, and so on. No, Zerg can't simply 1a into a guarded choke, but little backdoor strategies become much more potent once your opponent is forced to expand outward or risk starving to death.
No the Terran has already dictated play from the beginning of the match by turtling up and waiting for the swarm.
I swear to god I have played against some Terrans who have made their army and gone off to make their dinner...
Actually you think I'm joking this happened in a 3v3 game. Both myself and my 2v2 partner died to opponent attacks our Terran buddy weathered the storm but lost 3v1. After the game we were like "WTF where were you we messaged and messaged and pinged the screen like mad" his response was "I went to get my dinner out of the Oven".
No Joke.
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On August 11 2010 00:58 Acritter wrote:
Something I've noticed is that once Z gets proper Hive tech up, they can start dictating play by Nydusing immobile Terrans, switching between air and ground (BL/Muta versus Ultraling) to mess up Protoss, sending Speedlings everywhere, and so on. No, Zerg can't simply 1a into a guarded choke, but little backdoor strategies become much more potent once your opponent is forced to expand outward or risk starving to death.
Actually, Zerg is much more mobile than the other races in every stage of the game. Early it's Zerglings. And once Lair kicks in and you have enough queens, creep spreads like cancer.
Also Nydus worms are Lair tech.
And don't forget that you can get an instant fleet of fast drop ships for the flat price of 300/300. And overlord speed and ventral sacs can be done in parallel when you have an expansion, which you should always have anyway.
Doom drops is not the only thing you can do with Overlords and ventral sacs. You can drop in more places at once than any terran could possibly defend, even with sensor towers (and seeing that those spreading out overlords are actually going for a lot of small drops is all but impossible until it's too late).
Protoss at least can warp in, but that has it's drawbacks too.
And no need to say what 8 zerglings or 4 banelings/roaches/hydras can do to a mineral line if unchecked.
But why stop there? Fill a queen and 4 drones and give him a nasty surprise on a cliff behind a mineral line. 4 spines and a queen with transfuse and air defense. And if he has more air, make 1 or 2 spores instead. Only costs minerals, and is very bothersome to deal with, and terran or protoss usually doesn't expect to be cliff dropped like that from zerg.
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On August 11 2010 00:57 junemermaid wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 00:31 Bair wrote:On August 11 2010 00:01 junemermaid wrote:On August 03 2010 10:47 zomgtossrush wrote:Me and my friend were talking about this issue just last week. Since Terrans have BC's which are the late game "omgrapetastic" option. In which you can make a few of.. Toss has a solo mothership with super "tech" advantages... What does zerg have? you could argue broodlords or ultras, but they dont have that "unique" characteristic that seperates them from the other 2 races. What if the zerg has something to expand their supply? Of course we could debate forever by how much, but lets just say...35? It feels very swarm like. It would solve alot of issues players have with the roach supply count and such. The only problem would be to figure out what that something would be. Something air? something unit? some building, like post-hive? Of course we didn't put TOO much thought into this, but thats what the forums(and you guys) can do for us I was thinking of this last night as well... If having lair tech boosts max supply by 25, and hive another 25, zerg could potentially stand up to late game pressure. It still doesn't really solve the defensive style of play that zerg is FORCED into, but it does relieve some pressure on the late game such that Terran (and protoss to some extent) can't sit in their base until they're maxed out. It also helps mitigate the fact that zerg usually needs +1 expansion to stay on par with protoss & terran. Let me re-phrase that: one saturated expansion. Which means about 30 drones that are not combat units. An additional 50 supply (the actual number isn't the point of the discussion, just the mechanic) for Hive tech would help curb the excessive drone count for Zerg players. I think the biggest problem about ZvT/P is the creep mechanic, to be honest. While it might seem amazing for Zerg players, it really just hinders them and forces them to play passively. Hydralisks and roaches (to some extent) are slow as sin off creep. This discourages aggressive styles of play against other races. It also discourages the opponent to attack the Zerg who is actively spreading creep because hydralisks and roaches are out of control on the creep. This type of stale-mate position is innately built into the ZvP matchups. The zerg merrily sits on their creep, massing hydras and roaches, and waits for the Protoss to attack. If the zerg moves off the creep in an attempt to make a move against Protoss, colossus or high templar murder hydralisks, not to mention sentry FF's. I think the creep mechanic works well, especially lore-wise. The slowly advancing unstoppable zerg. Of course slowly advancing unstoppable force sounds like siege tanks, but still, you get the idea. Zerg is not as bad off as people think. It is hard for them to get to tier 3, but then the get the best unit in the game: The ultralisk. Honestly, a fully upgraded ultraling force is nigh unstoppable by toss and terran. Terran straight up has no answer except banshees, which get murdered by a muta or 3, and the only decent unit toss has is the archon, which is even *more* expensive than an ultralisk. Factor in that you should be outmacroing them as zerg and GG. I mean, zerg units are Okay off creep, but why would you push out off the creep, intentionally gimping your units? You have to be absolutely certain that you're winning the engagement as retreat is a very hard option because of the fast units Terran has (hellion, stimmed bio) or Protoss (stalkers + blink, chargelots) compared to the hydra, which has the same speed as a sentry off-creep. No, its much more safe to play on the creep where zerg can get quick arcs and retreat effectively rather than play a risky aggressive style in which a bad battle turns into an instant loss. Making creep highways is one way to play aggressively, but the overlords are oh-so vulnerable. Spreading creep tumors basically is how Zerg slowly regains map control after early game. Speedlings & blings only work up to a certain point for map control, but eventually it gets conceded to competent Terran / Protoss players. This is pretty evident in the tons of high level zerg replays (idra, Sen) where the scope of their army is limited to where the creep is. Hell, why should zerg move out of their comfort zone and intentionally reduce mobility? Given, high level zerg players are good at spreading creep, but once those creep tumors start to fall cuz of obs, the mobility of the zerg player is cut down considerably. Just my two cents on seeing the army-movement trends in ZvX
You should be able to cover most of the map with creep before a mid game push, or at least I try to. I usually get a second queen at my main and use it exclusively for tumors until I can support to injects worth of larva onstantly.
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On August 11 2010 00:53 Wolf wrote:
Terran turtling is hard to deal with as any race. Defeating it requires innovation, but I find that playing the macro game and taking all of the bases around him is really the best way. There are many ways to defeat a turtling Terran, but sending 200/200 food army at his turtle repeatedly is not the way. I've noticed a lot of posts where people say "I sent 200/200 at his tanks and all my stuff died. I did it again and it happened again!"
That's never the way to deal with turtling Terrans. Seeing those posts.. Hurts me inside a little.
Totally agree with you, but what else can Zerg do, let the Terran tech even higher up? Wait till you have 60 larvae waiting around doing nothing till you free up some psy? The only viable harass options you have as zerg are burrow and muta's, both are countered pretty easily by scan and Thor. So, the only thing left for Zerg to do is take all possible expo's on the map and spread creep to the opponent's frontdoor and do ninja sniping tactics by attacking and retreating, attacking and retreating, abusing the creep. But that takes so much effort and risk, while the Terran can basically just sit back and tech up to max upgrades, and move out with his unstoppable force, all the while Zerg pulls his hairs out of frustration, because there are so limited options to do something about it.
The most succesful way I've used is to use Overlorddrops by the weak points of his base, where he has least vision, but this does make my own base vulnerable to attacks when the drop fails, it's basically gg.
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On August 11 2010 04:09 Cajun2k1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 00:53 Wolf wrote:
Terran turtling is hard to deal with as any race. Defeating it requires innovation, but I find that playing the macro game and taking all of the bases around him is really the best way. There are many ways to defeat a turtling Terran, but sending 200/200 food army at his turtle repeatedly is not the way. I've noticed a lot of posts where people say "I sent 200/200 at his tanks and all my stuff died. I did it again and it happened again!"
That's never the way to deal with turtling Terrans. Seeing those posts.. Hurts me inside a little. Totally agree with you, but what else can Zerg do, let the Terran tech even higher up? Wait till you have 60 larvae waiting around doing nothing till you free up some psy? The only viable harass options you have as zerg are burrow and muta's, both are countered pretty easily by scan and Thor. So, the only thing left for Zerg to do is take all possible expo's on the map and spread creep to the opponent's frontdoor and do ninja sniping tactics by attacking and retreating, attacking and retreating, abusing the creep. But that takes so much effort and risk, while the Terran can basically just sit back and tech up to max upgrades, and move out with his unstoppable force, all the while Zerg pulls his hairs out of frustration, because there are so limited options to do something about it. The most succesful way I've used is to use Overlorddrops by the weak points of his base, where he has least vision, but this does make my own base vulnerable to attacks when the drop fails, it's basically gg.
This is the root of it - if all else fails for terran, he always can fall back on his impenetrable defense. This means the only win condition for Zerg in ZvT against a competent Terran is a 40 minute long game in which every base gets mined.
It's very frustrating!
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One thing I'd like to see tried is transfused ultras using queens in overlords to help in big battles.
Of course it wouldn't help with early game issues but it could be interesting.
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I'm a diamond zerg player, and I really dont feel they are underpowered. People are not playing them to their full potential. Zerg is the harass race. The FAST race. They aren't the MASS race any more. They are sneaky, very fast, but very weak. Most of your attacks should be hit and runs until you are sure you are far enough ahead to do a full on assault.
I say it all the time, and will continue to do so: The Nydus Network is the BEST ability in the game. I dont think people realize how much their opponent is limited once he knows you have a nydus. You have the power to be everywhere at once, and your units are faster than theirs by a LOT. Exploit this!
As for the OP's point that you can not break a properly defended Terran choke - you dont HAVE to! Just go around.
Also - why does everyone discredit Infested Terrans or not even mention them as an ability? I used 5 infestors to spawn 40 ITs to break a terran choke just the other day. His tanks were effectively used against him as their splash demolished his own wall. Many of the ITs died immediately, but the damage was effective and I didn't lose a single unit. I followed that with a quick nydus by their minerals with nothing but sling/bling and it was GG.
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On August 11 2010 06:23 Jadix wrote:
I'm a diamond zerg player, and I really dont feel they are underpowered. People are not playing them to their full potential. Zerg is the harass race. The FAST race. They aren't the MASS race any more. They are sneaky, very fast, but very weak. Most of your attacks should be hit and runs until you are sure you are far enough ahead to do a full on assault.
I say it all the time, and will continue to do so: The Nydus Network is the BEST ability in the game. I dont think people realize how much their opponent is limited once he knows you have a nydus. You have the power to be everywhere at once, and your units are faster than theirs by a LOT. Exploit this!
I don't think you realize how quickly a good Terran player can power down a Nydus once he sees it. Since T doesn't have a demanding macro mechanic like spawn larvae or spreading creep , they can keep an eye on the minimap pretty easily. Once you see the big red square, send over a marauder or a siege tank or a couple marines or a few SCVs. He can divert less cost in units than the 100/100 you spend on the worm alone.
You also probably lose the overlord / overseer who got you sight into the base.
Also, saying zerg is the harass race is a joke. What harass options are available to Zerg and Terran in ZvT?
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On August 11 2010 06:31 fdsdfg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 06:23 Jadix wrote:
I'm a diamond zerg player, and I really dont feel they are underpowered. People are not playing them to their full potential. Zerg is the harass race. The FAST race. They aren't the MASS race any more. They are sneaky, very fast, but very weak. Most of your attacks should be hit and runs until you are sure you are far enough ahead to do a full on assault.
I say it all the time, and will continue to do so: The Nydus Network is the BEST ability in the game. I dont think people realize how much their opponent is limited once he knows you have a nydus. You have the power to be everywhere at once, and your units are faster than theirs by a LOT. Exploit this!
I don't think you realize how quickly a good Terran player can power down a Nydus once he sees it. Since T doesn't have a demanding macro mechanic like spawn larvae or spreading creep , they can keep an eye on the minimap pretty easily. Once you see the big red square, send over a marauder or a siege tank or a couple marines or a few SCVs. He can divert less cost in units than the 100/100 you spend on the worm alone. You also probably lose the overlord / overseer who got you sight into the base. Also, saying zerg is the harass race is a joke. What harass options are available to Zerg and Terran in ZvT?
So you're saying you shouldn't use the Nydus Worm? Late game you have tons of minerals. You can make more than one Nydus and choose where you will come up. A good Terran player may be able to cancel one Nydus, but how about 3 or 4? And more, Zerg will not risk his army doing this, it is not like dropping in multiple places.
I still have hope for the swarm. We just need to adapt to its new style.
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When i look at nydus with harassment in mind, i see a lot of problems as follows:
-Units do not deploy to field instantly, and not nearly fast enough for my tastes
-Naturally you'll have to divide up your forces
-Opens you up for a direct counter if you over commit
-T bases generally pretty snug, there aren't too many places to actually nydus
-How much damage can you really do before T gets back home to put you down?
With the way nydus worm is right now, i dont think any competent, alert T will let you actually deal damage.
Going off of zerg harass, ZvT harass was super effective when you could maintain a high level of DPS with a small force of units, usually cracklings. You maintained DPS becuase you had Dark Swarm to cover your ass. So late game, good Zs would run around with a couple defiler strike forces to really mess up Terran and Protoss players. But without DS, the idea of small scale commando lings even with nydus worms seems much less effective to me.
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On August 11 2010 07:09 CommanderFluffy wrote:
When i look at nydus with harassment in mind, i see a lot of problems as follows:
-Units do not deploy to field instantly, and not nearly fast enough for my tastes
-Naturally you'll have to divide up your forces
-Opens you up for a direct counter if you over commit
-T bases generally pretty snug, there aren't too many places to actually nydus
-How much damage can you really do before T gets back home to put you down?
With the way nydus worm is right now, i dont think any competent, alert T will let you actually deal damage.
Going off of zerg harass, ZvT harass was super effective when you could maintain a high level of DPS with a small force of units, usually cracklings. You maintained DPS becuase you had Dark Swarm to cover your ass. So late game, good Zs would run around with a couple defiler strike forces to really mess up Terran and Protoss players. But without DS, the idea of small scale commando lings even with nydus worms seems much less effective to me.
This is essential... the toned down lings are something that really hurt the Zerg threat all game long. Right now lings die to zealots in the early game and become very weak later on...
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On August 11 2010 06:45 J7S wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 06:31 fdsdfg wrote:On August 11 2010 06:23 Jadix wrote:
I'm a diamond zerg player, and I really dont feel they are underpowered. People are not playing them to their full potential. Zerg is the harass race. The FAST race. They aren't the MASS race any more. They are sneaky, very fast, but very weak. Most of your attacks should be hit and runs until you are sure you are far enough ahead to do a full on assault.
I say it all the time, and will continue to do so: The Nydus Network is the BEST ability in the game. I dont think people realize how much their opponent is limited once he knows you have a nydus. You have the power to be everywhere at once, and your units are faster than theirs by a LOT. Exploit this!
I don't think you realize how quickly a good Terran player can power down a Nydus once he sees it. Since T doesn't have a demanding macro mechanic like spawn larvae or spreading creep , they can keep an eye on the minimap pretty easily. Once you see the big red square, send over a marauder or a siege tank or a couple marines or a few SCVs. He can divert less cost in units than the 100/100 you spend on the worm alone. You also probably lose the overlord / overseer who got you sight into the base. Also, saying zerg is the harass race is a joke. What harass options are available to Zerg and Terran in ZvT? So you're saying you shouldn't use the Nydus Worm? Late game you have tons of minerals. You can make more than one Nydus and choose where you will come up. A good Terran player may be able to cancel one Nydus, but how about 3 or 4? And more, Zerg will not risk his army doing this, it is not like dropping in multiple places. I still have hope for the swarm. We just need to adapt to its new style.
I don't really care about the minerals, I care a lot about the gas. Spending 200 gas per nydus network and 100 per worm adds up REALLY fast. How about 3 or 4? How about 18-24 hydralisks that aren't being built? How about 4-6 ultralisks?
All on a gamble that your opponent won't send one marauder to each of them within 10 seconds of spotting it.
This is essential... the toned down lings are something that really hurt the Zerg threat all game long. Right now lings die to zealots in the early game and become very weak later on...
I hate how the zerg reveal trailer notes that the zerg have evolved since their last engagement.. and yet three very crucial units were deleted and every other one got a nerf. All for what, being able to build a queen instead of an in-base hatchery?
I'm not complaining about balance because the races are pretty evenly balanced IMO, but P and T got SO much fun stuff - Z got a bit too, but all through the beta it was nerfed into oblivion until the only thing left to do is throw Generic Attack Units 1-5 at the opponent at the same time. Zerg was just made really bland for what feels like no reason.
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EPT
