EPTIn fact, I'd say that even if they weren't prepared, they'd be fine. People can usually deal with 10 pools with not a lot of losses, and considering that this is a 10 pool speed build, with just massively slower economy... it wouldn't matter of the opponent lost half their worker line, they'd still probably win.
[D] Cancel Hatchery = 3x3 Creep for 75 minerals - Page 3
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
In fact, I'd say that even if they weren't prepared, they'd be fine. People can usually deal with 10 pools with not a lot of losses, and considering that this is a 10 pool speed build, with just massively slower economy... it wouldn't matter of the opponent lost half their worker line, they'd still probably win. | ||
|
neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
| ||
|
Xanrae
Belgium53 Posts
| ||
|
SC2Phoenix
Canada2814 Posts
| ||
|
sikyon
Canada1045 Posts
I might use this on ZvZ since I play random. Get an early pool (11?) and pump workers and save minerals. Don't spend on that extra overlord. Bring most of the workers into his base just before the pool finishes, pop the hatch and build spine crawlers. Reinforce with lings from your main constantly, and pull drones off your mineral line when you get near max supply so that you don't have to build that ovie (and build more crawlers in his base) I really think you could pull this off. | ||
|
Ai52487963
United Kingdom136 Posts
On July 27 2010 02:06 sieesch wrote: its really strong for hiding banelingnest in zvt 14 gas 14 pool get metabolic get 2 lings to kill svc hide banelingnest, terran will scan your main for sure and if there is no baneling nest and no lair coming he feels save and think you got expo there will be no bunker behind wall and no bigger buldings behind his depot Seems like kind of a late svc scout huh? I'm usually scouted before my pool finishes so they can see if I expo'd or not. No expo usually means a baneling bust or 1-base roach push. | ||
|
im a roc
United States745 Posts
I know! All beware the proxy pool rush. | ||
|
BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On July 27 2010 02:06 sieesch wrote: its really strong for hiding banelingnest in zvt 14 gas 14 pool get metabolic get 2 lings to kill svc hide banelingnest, terran will scan your main for sure and if there is no baneling nest and no lair coming he feels save and think you got expo there will be no bunker behind wall and no bigger buldings behind his depot again, if terran scans your base, and sees 1-base w/gas but no lair, what is he going to assume? Roaches or banelings, and he will get more defense either way. | ||
|
Johnny_Vegas
United States239 Posts
Protoss often will do the Gateway + Forge with cannons one space behind so that it is roach and zergling proof, but also walling themself in their base. So you take two drones, one cancels a hatch right outside their wallin, the other makes a spine crawler. The spine crawler will eventually die from lack of creep, but not before weakening or killing the forge. One spine crawler hurts buildings about as fast as two roaches do. Meanwhile you do a standard roach rush (or baneling rush) to help bust the wall once the spine has gotten the forge down into the red. Essentially it is a standard roach rush with the added cost of 2 drones not mining (you get 1 back) and a spine crawler that ends up costing you 175 mins (100 for spine + 75 for canceled hatch). I had been thinking about a proxy hatch/spine crawler build to counter fast expanding protoss that wallin in this manner, but this canceled hatch idea is much cheaper/faster. The only thing I am unsure of is how fast spine crawlers die when not on creep (might be 2 damage per second?). A great follow up to this strat might be getting lair quickly and spewing creep on the spine(s) before it dies. | ||
|
DoubleZee
Canada556 Posts
| ||
|
uberdeluxe
Canada306 Posts
| ||
|
Diks
Belgium1880 Posts
On July 27 2010 04:49 uberdeluxe wrote: sorry, but this is useless. Once the creep dissipates, as it will in SC2, your building will lose hp gradually and die. yeah i don't know how they could write 3 pages without notifying this... Doesn't your "hidden tech" just die because of creep dissipating ? btw very good find to delay a natural | ||
|
P00RKID
United States424 Posts
This technique doesn't even have to be used except in rare circumstances, where it could save you if you know about it. In the Razer KotB IdrA vs Tester on LT game... + Show Spoiler + http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/3903298/ If IdrA had seen that type of cannon cheese before, he could have use a proxy spine crawler at the front of his ramp. Since he was already going pool first, all he had to do was delay the queen, get 300 minerals, and place a proxy spine crawler at his own ramp, then continue with getting the queen. This would have put IdrA a little behind in the normal sense, but not compared to the opening Tester did, and not compared to waiting for your first queen's SECOND 25 energy + waiting for the creep to spread. I'm not even sure IdrA knows about the hatchery cancel, and probably would think of something else to do anyway, but I think this would have helped him as he could have exited his base much sooner. Edit - Just rewatched that game, and when idra sent 2 drones to expand, he was almost at 300 min, and his pool had just finished. He could have started the hatchery cancel right then and got the crawler up and going , and start his queen right after delaying it maybe only 2-3 seconds, but getting out of his base a whole 2-3 MINUTES sooner. | ||
|
0xDEADFISH
United States10 Posts
On July 27 2010 04:49 uberdeluxe wrote: sorry, but this is useless. Once the creep dissipates, as it will in SC2, your building will lose hp gradually and die. You seriously don't understand the point. We know that buildings die off creep... So OP had a good idea, but presented it a bit off: You don't hide a spawning pool on a 3x3 creep patch. That's useless. It'll die unless you get a tumor there. That being said, what you DO is hide a baneling nest / roach warren somewhere. This is viable, it's an all-in cheesy kinda play, plus you need to get to lair for overlord creep spitting. Here's how I see a possible play go: Go standard 13 gas/13 pool, first 100 gas speed. Next 50 gas, do the cancel/build a baneling nest somewhere where an overlord is. They're going to scout you, see no lair. It's still okay because first 100 went into speed. They know that. Next 125 -> banelings, then get your lair ASAP. Obviously hide your banelings well. At this point, if they scan/scout, it's GG for terran (assuming you're busting a terran). He see's the lair going up, doesn't know how long it's been going for. He's going to assume some sort of 1 base muta play, and that's when you bust him. Other good ideas already presented: Stopping a terran from completing a wall, but this seems kinda risky. | ||
|
figq
12519 Posts
RU RUR , i.e. you can't have RR next to each other with this method (off creep). I prefer fully built hatchery, because its HPs are cheaper for tanking shots, and it blocks longer; plus it spreads quite a lot of creep, and you could get a queen right there in place (not moving it across the map) and extend the creep. By the time he deals with all this, you could have expanded already (normally) and still be ahead. | ||
|
uberdeluxe
Canada306 Posts
On July 27 2010 05:01 0xDEADFISH wrote: You seriously don't understand the point. We know that buildings die off creep... So OP had a good idea, but presented it a bit off: You don't hide a spawning pool on a 3x3 creep patch. That's useless. It'll die unless you get a tumor there. That being said, what you DO is hide a baneling nest / roach warren somewhere. This is viable, it's an all-in cheesy kinda play, plus you need to get to lair for overlord creep spitting. Here's how I see a possible play go: Go standard 13 gas/13 pool, first 100 gas speed. Next 50 gas, do the cancel/build a baneling nest somewhere where an overlord is. They're going to scout you, see no lair. It's still okay because first 100 went into speed. They know that. Next 125 -> banelings, then get your lair ASAP. Obviously hide your banelings well. At this point, if they scan/scout, it's GG for terran (assuming you're busting a terran). He see's the lair going up, doesn't know how long it's been going for. He's going to assume some sort of 1 base muta play, and that's when you bust him. Other good ideas already presented: Stopping a terran from completing a wall, but this seems kinda risky. IMO, that's the only thing it's viable for. Since the creep will go away rather quickly, you will be loosing hp of the building a while before it's done, and they die atleast as fast as flaming terran buildings. If you save 200+ gas to make a bunch of banelings, hoping you'll win immediately, you can do this. However, if you want to high buildings this early in the game, just get a few lings to block your ramp. If you'r doing a cheesy all-in you'll have lings in all likelihood anyway. You need to remember that all you're gaining is a decreased chance that your opponent will see the building, and what you loose is... the building. | ||
|
fdsdfg
United States1251 Posts
-Scouting drone builds hatchery to interrupt Terran's wall -Cancels, quickly builds Spine crawler on remaining creep (still interrupting Terran's wall) -Comes in with Zerglings and either coordinates with Spine crawler dying (to marines most likely) to enter the base, or uproots the crawler and moves in the lings. I wonder if the timing for all that would work out.. and how many lings you could get there by that time. | ||
|
LancerStarcraft
United States235 Posts
Still, its a nice tactic to keep in mind. | ||
|
P00RKID
United States424 Posts
| ||
|
fdsdfg
United States1251 Posts
On July 27 2010 05:47 P00RKID wrote: Using a hatchery to stop their wall would be ludicrous. The timing doesn't work out at all. Going pool first, you can't do it in time, and going hatch first, your pool won't be done in time to get any sort of advantage. All teran has to do is get a bunker and make reapers. Reapers can kill the building off fast, AND punish you for getting a late pool. Yeah, that's true, I forgot the hatch costs 300 even though you only really 'spend' 75. | ||
| ||
