|
Hello,
This is my first topic so don’t be too rough on me please =)
Yes, I did some search before making this topic and I didn't find any topic about it (If I missed it, please redirect me to it and delete this topic obviously)
Now, let's get back on the main topic.
As the title says, when you build an hatchery and cancels it, there are 3x3 tiles of creep for a short time.
Here are the key things to note :
- You must have at least 300 minerals to do it.
- When you cancels it, you get 225 minerals back (hence it costs 75 minerals).
- You have enough time to make any 3x3 building (Spawning pool, Baneling nest, Roach warren)
- You have enough time to make a spine crawler and a creep tumor together.
- This becomes useless at Tier 2 once you have lair, since overlord vomiting creep is free.
Here are two things I looked into :
1/ "cheesing" with a relativery fast hidden spawning pool
So I made some tests with a build-order tester and here are the timings I got for when the spawning pool starts :
+ Show Spoiler +6 pool : 0:42
7 pool : 0:50
8 pool : 0:59
9 pool : 1:05
10 pool : 1:12
6 hidden pool : 1:12
7 hidden pool : 1:14
8 hidden pool : 1:21
9 hidden pool : 1:27
13 pool with a 9 over : 1:49
Of course these number depends on a few minor things and may vary a little, if you're not happy with them, you are welcome to do the tests yourself 
The main point I get out of these timings is that an hidden 7 pool (that seems the most interesting one) is approximatively as fast as a 10 pool.
I don't know how efficient an hidden pool can be, as I didn't get to try it while the beta was still open, so I'd like to know you guys' opinion about this
Oh, and, one last thing I want to note is that buildings off creep dies slowly, so you'll have approximatively 5 minutes to either win the game or put a creep tumor to keep your spawning pool alive.
2/ Agressive spine crawler push
With this technique, you can basically build a spine crawler in front of your enemy base.
But one spine crawler alone will die slowly without creep and I don't think it would be very efficient. However, maybe you can work on a build order where you make 2 queens relatively fast and send one in front of your opponent base (yes this might only work on short rush distance maps), well then you could make a spine crawler and a creep tumor at the same time.
The creep will keep your spine crawler alive, will slow down your opponent from expanding, will make your units in front of his base faster, and you'll also have a queen as anti-air and to transfuse the spine crawler.
Last thing I want to note, is that since it requires 300 minerals in advance, you might want to to this trick just before your set of 4x larvaes pop out (since you would have kept some money for building the units for those larvaes).
Same as 1/, I didn't get to try this on the beta, so I can't provide any replay and this is all theory crafting, but I think this might open up to some cool new strategies and I'd like to know what you guys think about it.
Thanks for reading, cya.
|
I've heard about getting the 3x3 creep, but I'm not sure its easy to justify. I think the best reason would be to place it at your opponents nat, lay down a tumor and spine crawler contain. With queens moving so slowly off creep, though, it's not the easiest thing in the world. It is doable, however.
Wouldn't bother vs Terran with siege tanks, but maybe vs Toss.
EDIT: Or maybe all-in ZvZ 6pool crawler rush. If you try to crawler at the edges of the creep they usually see it, but if you get that 3v3 block just outside of the creep, cancel the hatch then you can lay down 1 crawler. When its done building, it can offer protection to build more crawlers. Kind of the epitome of cheese though, I wouldn't bother.
|
Nice idea, but low chances of this working.
Also good player will notice that you don't have expansion and SP but so low on workers.
|
nice catch. what about blocking terran or protoss before they build gate?
|
I like this, this could be some sort of "Manner creep tumor" for zerg, which would make it really difficult for the protoss to get their expansion, or even impossible until they either invest in a cannon or get a robotics facility for observers.
The problem I can forsee is, as Nokarot said, that queens move quite quite slow off creep, so you'd need close positions or just sacrifice a queen for this.
But I think sacrificing a queen might even be worth it.. I really would like to try this out in game because it sounds like it could be an excellent tactic!
|
I really like the creative thinking that is brought up here. Thinking like this can cause the game to evolve. And while you get an A for effort, I just think the timing might be a little slow.
Also, doesn't a spine crawler start to bleed and die when the creep starts to receed? Or does this only happen with buildings? (Or am I completely wrong, and this doesn't happen at all?)
|
I remember a post like this from a few months back it suggested something very similar to the spine crawler rush, but never thought of it as a way to hide the pool, thats kinda clever, the best is if you do it fast enough, you can spend that 225 minerals on drones while your pool builds you opponent will just think you are going for a late pool build when he scouts.
edit: here is the post i was talking about. similar idea but he thought it was a bug "Spine Crawler Push Bug?"
oh it also includes a replay
Edit 2: there is also another thread about this play style use in ZvZ b/c you can build on the other players creep, but it also talks about how with the hatchery trick it can be put to in all match ups
Build on other creep in ZvZ
|
I think it could be a good idea for a hidden baneling nest or roach den, but for the pool, I think its a little slow to wait for the extra 100 minerals for a tech structure that is necessary and they know you have to get anyway. Baneling/Roach is more optional and better choice to hide.
|
On July 26 2010 22:52 ThreeSixDrew wrote:
Also, doesn't a spine crawler start to bleed and die when the creep starts to receed? Or does this only happen with buildings? (Or am I completely wrong, and this doesn't happen at all?)
Uprooted spine crawlers don't bleed, rooted ones bleed.
That's why I suggested to have an additional queen to put a creep tumor there.
|
On July 26 2010 22:52 ThreeSixDrew wrote:Also, doesn't a spine crawler start to bleed and die when the creep starts to receed? Or does this only happen with buildings? (Or am I completely wrong, and this doesn't happen at all?)
I think that's why he suggested building a crawler with a tumor.
|
On July 26 2010 22:47 v4nd4l wrote:
nice catch. what about blocking terran or protoss before they build gate?
No point of that. You won't have 300 minerals when they get 1 gateway.
|
They don't bleed in the morphing/building stages, just saying.
|
On July 26 2010 22:57 Nokarot wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2010 22:52 ThreeSixDrew wrote:Also, doesn't a spine crawler start to bleed and die when the creep starts to receed? Or does this only happen with buildings? (Or am I completely wrong, and this doesn't happen at all?) I think that's why he suggested building a crawler with a tumor.
I think the crawler can walk off creep and not lose any life however it will be extreamly slow and not able to burrow and attack.
|
Not a zerg player here, is lair required to get overlord speed & overlord carrying units upgrade?
If not you could get those and airlift your queen where needed. Heavy investment but having a creep tumour on your opponents expo seems pretty harsh
|
I can see this as a viable way to get a couple of spine crawlers up at a base's ramp entrance. Could this be a possible way to create a quick wall in for zerg?
Such as, throw down a hatch, cancel, put down a creep tumor, build an evolution chamber in a position similar to where you would place a gateway or pylon as Protoss, build a spine crawler (or 3) behind the evolution chamber then choke up the wall in with zerglings.
I've been toying with the idea of using a hatchery to block off a ramp partially but I think this would be more economical.
|
On July 26 2010 23:07 shammythefox wrote:
Not a zerg player here, is lair required to get overlord speed & overlord carrying units upgrade?
If not you could get those and airlift your queen where needed. Heavy investment but having a creep tumour on your opponents expo seems pretty harsh
Yeah you need a Lair, 300/300, and several minutes of research time for the overlords to move quickly and carry units.
|
Messed around with it some and don't see how it can be really useful without a queen to do a creep tumor and they are just too slow to make it work. By the time the queen walks all the way up to a forward position you could just get lair.
|
I don't see the hidden pools being useful really... It weakens the strength of the rush so much, 7 pool becomes 10-pool and is completely all in, a 10-pool isn't cheesey enough to outright win most of the time.
Also the scout can still see how few workers you have and know something's up.
I think the best use of the creep would be to 6(or 7/8)pool with spine crawlers vs non-zerg
|
On July 26 2010 23:16 General-Gouda wrote:
I can see this as a viable way to get a couple of spine crawlers up at a base's ramp entrance. Could this be a possible way to create a quick wall in for zerg?
Such as, throw down a hatch, cancel, put down a creep tumor, build an evolution chamber in a position similar to where you would place a gateway or pylon as Protoss, build a spine crawler (or 3) behind the evolution chamber then choke up the wall in with zerglings.
I've been toying with the idea of using a hatchery to block off a ramp partially but I think this would be more economical.
this. omg this. i've been thinking about that too, and i think this has awesome potential for hiding baneling nests and roach warrens in addition to creating the first ever zerg wall off
|
This is exactly why they nerfed the Queen's movement off creep - players would bring a couple drones and queen to the opponent's base, make this creep pile, plant a tumor, and build spine crawlers. Reinforce with an army, grow the tumor and push with the spine crawlers.
Now that the queen is an idiot, there's no viable way to get persistent creep down unless you proxy hatchery or tech to lair - and neither of those are fast enough really.
|
On July 26 2010 23:25 Rhyme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2010 23:16 General-Gouda wrote:
I can see this as a viable way to get a couple of spine crawlers up at a base's ramp entrance. Could this be a possible way to create a quick wall in for zerg?
Such as, throw down a hatch, cancel, put down a creep tumor, build an evolution chamber in a position similar to where you would place a gateway or pylon as Protoss, build a spine crawler (or 3) behind the evolution chamber then choke up the wall in with zerglings.
I've been toying with the idea of using a hatchery to block off a ramp partially but I think this would be more economical. this. omg this. i've been thinking about that too, and i think this has awesome potential for hiding baneling nests and roach warrens in addition to creating the first ever zerg wall off
Hrmm...it would require a quick pool and a quick queen in order to accomplish properly but unless the map is blistering sands with a back door this could be a good way to keep rushes out of your main. However, since most zerg like to FE it wouldn't really protect the natural and would probably only serve to slow it down. However, for 1 base plays like 1 base muta it might work well and really help with defenses. Besides, getting a quick Evolution Chamber up is never a bad thing in my opinion.
PS: I forgot to say great OP earlier.
|
Interesting idea... I'll try something out with this, thanks for brining the idea on the table! .
|
When queens were faster off-creep, koreans used to abuse this by running a queen to the enemy base, place a creep tumor on thus created creep and spine-crawler push the oponent.
Thus the queen speed nerf.
Other than that, I doubt this is very useful to begin with tbh.
Perhaps in ZvZ it might be used to morph a spine crawler into a hidden part of their base, and then burrow it in their mineral line.
|
On July 26 2010 23:36 fdsdfg wrote:
This is exactly why they nerfed the Queen's movement off creep - players would bring a couple drones and queen to the opponent's base, make this creep pile, plant a tumor, and build spine crawlers. Reinforce with an army, grow the tumor and push with the spine crawlers.
Now that the queen is an idiot, there's no viable way to get persistent creep down unless you proxy hatchery or tech to lair - and neither of those are fast enough really.
/thread.
This 'trick' is no longer viable because of queens off-creep speed.
|
there has been videos of this before the queen speed nerf off creep, i remember somebody trying it against me in phase one before the nerf, that failed pretty hard althrought this tactic was a lot of fun i don't think we'll see it anymore 
|
I just thought of another possible use for this.
Build a proxy hatch on the low ground below their base (at a ridge not a ramp), when it's done run drones up and do the cancel hatch in their base, the proxy hatch will maintain and spread the creep from below.
On desert oasis (and possibly other maps) this could be used to place spines in mineral line, while at the same time spamming zerglings from 2 hatches.
|
On July 26 2010 23:58 shawabawa wrote:
Build a proxy hatch on the low ground below their base (at a ridge not a ramp), when it's done run drones up and do the cancel hatch in their base, the proxy hatch will maintain and spread the creep from below.
I like this idea, I still think the best thing for this though could be making baneling busts more viable again.
The most common response when someone asks about how to baneling bust a terran is "don't do it because they'll scout it and then build a more durable wall-in"
What if you make it in some obscure part of the map? Is delaying it worth the cost of 75 minerals and lost time? Also, can you fly an overlord over there as well and get a lair up in time so as to not lose the baneling nest.
|
I play terran so this may or may not be viable but I would like to offer a cheese opportunity for ZvP. The timing for this probably wont work out since it requires a spawning pool first but who knows.
Is it possible for you to 6pool and have enough money to drop a hatch in their base before the gateway begins in a standard protoss opening? If so you could delay your zerglings by dropping the spine crawler right next to their pylon. Without a gateway finished yet you will have time for the crawler to finish and it can begin poking at the pylon while your zerglings show up shortly thereafter to harass probes.
Not to mention any 6pool could always benefit from a spine crawler too.
This should work if you can get the crawler down before or just after the gateway begins
|
How about using it to hide a roach warren to throw your opponent off?
|
On July 27 2010 00:23 Grend wrote:
How about using it to hide a roach warren to throw your opponent off?
that could work, but smart players will notice various clues:
-you are getting gas, but don't have lair or baneling nest
-not many lings
-no expansion
At the very least, your opponent will know you are preparing some kind of 1-base attack and will get more defense
|
Does the creep stay there? If it doesn't the building will die. I tried this already testing a hidden spire with an overlord spawning creep then leaving. the spire died.
|
Hidden proxy spire with creep tumor should be possible.
|
On July 27 2010 00:57 Dinn wrote:
Does the creep stay there? If it doesn't the building will die. I tried this already testing a hidden spire with an overlord spawning creep then leaving. the spire died.
For the spire, use the overlord creeping vomit since you obviously have lair it's possible, just anticipate and send an overlord to the right spot.
This thing is already being used a lot and you don't have to waste 75 minerals for this.
Edit : if you're afraid of vikings sniping the overlord keeping the spire alive, you can put a creep tumor of course, but you don't need the hatchery cancelling trick.
|
Not only can you hide things, I could see this being useful to block expos. Interesting creep harass ideas.
|
i used this trick once or twice against zergs who fastexp, once their hatchery is up it will spread creep that will keep the spine crawler alive
|
any chance of doing this to block the final building of a walloff long enough to rush lings in?
like where the tech lab would be placed in a depot/rax/addon walloff?
|
On July 27 2010 00:23 Grend wrote:
How about using it to hide a roach warren to throw your opponent off?
Meh, this seems poor, as the Warren will start to bleed and die. Also, you'd have to be fast, because the creep will recede quickly. Much better to hide a Spire somewhere under a Lairtech ovie. Surprise mutas! :o
|
Listen to what you described. A 7 pool at the speed of a 10 pool. That's basically like playing bad/afk enough so that your all-in has already lost its window of opportunity. A 7 pool doesn't rely on surprise as much as it does on a really fast attack that your opponent shouldn't be ready enough for, even if scouted (which of course isn't to say that scouting isn't the key to shutting this down).
Nice try, but I see next to zero potential with this aspect of the game.
|
its really strong for hiding banelingnest in zvt
14 gas
14 pool
get metabolic
get 2 lings to kill svc
hide banelingnest, terran will scan your main for sure and if there is no baneling nest and no lair coming he feels save and think you got expo
there will be no bunker behind wall and no bigger buldings behind his depot
|
This type of cheese sounds like suicide to me. You're delaying enough that Terran will be walled off already. Hell, you're delaying your 6 pool long enough that a normal scout time would see it. If I got to a Zergs base and saw 6 Drones and no buildings I'd immediately go mass Marine. Hell, by then I'd probably have enough SCVs to kill off your Zerglings.
|
I think this is completely useless though overall. Not only is the pool significantly delayed, but when they scout you, they will notice the lack of drones and excess larva, which is enough for them to scout the whole map. Granted, they might logically assume that it's a hatchery being placed down, but any subsequent time once they know about the exploit, they will be prepared for it.
In fact, I'd say that even if they weren't prepared, they'd be fine. People can usually deal with 10 pools with not a lot of losses, and considering that this is a 10 pool speed build, with just massively slower economy... it wouldn't matter of the opponent lost half their worker line, they'd still probably win.
|
It's definitely creative and will likely see some cheese play involving this, but it has no use instandard play.
|
Not to hide your pool obviously. The baneling nest. Just let them scout your base for a while and not see one. Then suddenly morph your zerglings and bust in.
|
Good find although probily not that useful.
|
Wow.
I might use this on ZvZ since I play random. Get an early pool (11?) and pump workers and save minerals. Don't spend on that extra overlord. Bring most of the workers into his base just before the pool finishes, pop the hatch and build spine crawlers. Reinforce with lings from your main constantly, and pull drones off your mineral line when you get near max supply so that you don't have to build that ovie (and build more crawlers in his base)
I really think you could pull this off.
|
On July 27 2010 02:06 sieesch wrote:
its really strong for hiding banelingnest in zvt
14 gas
14 pool
get metabolic
get 2 lings to kill svc
hide banelingnest, terran will scan your main for sure and if there is no baneling nest and no lair coming he feels save and think you got expo
there will be no bunker behind wall and no bigger buldings behind his depot
Seems like kind of a late svc scout huh? I'm usually scouted before my pool finishes so they can see if I expo'd or not. No expo usually means a baneling bust or 1-base roach push.
|
I'm trying to find some way to apply this because it seems really cool.
I know! All beware the proxy pool rush.
|
On July 27 2010 02:06 sieesch wrote:
its really strong for hiding banelingnest in zvt
14 gas
14 pool
get metabolic
get 2 lings to kill svc
hide banelingnest, terran will scan your main for sure and if there is no baneling nest and no lair coming he feels save and think you got expo
there will be no bunker behind wall and no bigger buldings behind his depot
again, if terran scans your base, and sees 1-base w/gas but no lair, what is he going to assume? Roaches or banelings, and he will get more defense either way.
|
How about this as a counter to a Protoss fast expand on Blistering Sands or Lost Temple...
Protoss often will do the Gateway + Forge with cannons one space behind so that it is roach and zergling proof, but also walling themself in their base. So you take two drones, one cancels a hatch right outside their wallin, the other makes a spine crawler. The spine crawler will eventually die from lack of creep, but not before weakening or killing the forge. One spine crawler hurts buildings about as fast as two roaches do. Meanwhile you do a standard roach rush (or baneling rush) to help bust the wall once the spine has gotten the forge down into the red.
Essentially it is a standard roach rush with the added cost of 2 drones not mining (you get 1 back) and a spine crawler that ends up costing you 175 mins (100 for spine + 75 for canceled hatch).
I had been thinking about a proxy hatch/spine crawler build to counter fast expanding protoss that wallin in this manner, but this canceled hatch idea is much cheaper/faster.
The only thing I am unsure of is how fast spine crawlers die when not on creep (might be 2 damage per second?). A great follow up to this strat might be getting lair quickly and spewing creep on the spine(s) before it dies.
|
The only way I see this being helpful is when you have to cancel a FE due to a rush. Dropping a creep tumor right after you cancel a FE would help defend the area more easily during/after the rush is fended off.
|
sorry, but this is useless. Once the creep dissipates, as it will in SC2, your building will lose hp gradually and die.
|
On July 27 2010 04:49 uberdeluxe wrote:
sorry, but this is useless. Once the creep dissipates, as it will in SC2, your building will lose hp gradually and die.
yeah i don't know how they could write 3 pages without notifying this...
Doesn't your "hidden tech" just die because of creep dissipating ?
btw very good find to delay a natural
|
I started a topic about this a few months back. Trying to bust a non-expansion wall is hard and risky to do with this. But if they are doing an early expand, using the proxy creep and spine crawler technique has a little more weight.
This technique doesn't even have to be used except in rare circumstances, where it could save you if you know about it.
In the Razer KotB IdrA vs Tester on LT game...
+ Show Spoiler +http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/3903298/If IdrA had seen that type of cannon cheese before, he could have use a proxy spine crawler at the front of his ramp. Since he was already going pool first, all he had to do was delay the queen, get 300 minerals, and place a proxy spine crawler at his own ramp, then continue with getting the queen. This would have put IdrA a little behind in the normal sense, but not compared to the opening Tester did, and not compared to waiting for your first queen's SECOND 25 energy + waiting for the creep to spread. I'm not even sure IdrA knows about the hatchery cancel, and probably would think of something else to do anyway, but I think this would have helped him as he could have exited his base much sooner. Edit - Just rewatched that game, and when idra sent 2 drones to expand, he was almost at 300 min, and his pool had just finished. He could have started the hatchery cancel right then and got the crawler up and going , and start his queen right after delaying it maybe only 2-3 seconds, but getting out of his base a whole 2-3 MINUTES sooner.
|
On July 27 2010 04:49 uberdeluxe wrote:
sorry, but this is useless. Once the creep dissipates, as it will in SC2, your building will lose hp gradually and die.
You seriously don't understand the point. We know that buildings die off creep...
So OP had a good idea, but presented it a bit off:
You don't hide a spawning pool on a 3x3 creep patch. That's useless. It'll die unless you get a tumor there.
That being said, what you DO is hide a baneling nest / roach warren somewhere. This is viable, it's an all-in cheesy kinda play, plus you need to get to lair for overlord creep spitting.
Here's how I see a possible play go:
Go standard 13 gas/13 pool, first 100 gas speed. Next 50 gas, do the cancel/build a baneling nest somewhere where an overlord is. They're going to scout you, see no lair. It's still okay because first 100 went into speed. They know that.
Next 125 -> banelings, then get your lair ASAP. Obviously hide your banelings well. At this point, if they scan/scout, it's GG for terran (assuming you're busting a terran). He see's the lair going up, doesn't know how long it's been going for. He's going to assume some sort of 1 base muta play, and that's when you bust him.
Other good ideas already presented:
Stopping a terran from completing a wall, but this seems kinda risky.
|
I prefer actually building the hatchery and use it as double gate combat production at his door. But canceling is also fun and useful. You cancel it two times, and you get 2 crawlers, which will stay alive for some time, and then you could uproot and save them. Unfortunately it doesn't seem possible to build them next to each other. So if the ramp is 2 (x2) or 3 (x2) tiles wide, to block it using rooted(R) and uprooted(U) crawlers, you should make configurations like:
RU
RUR , i.e. you can't have RR next to each other with this method (off creep). I prefer fully built hatchery, because its HPs are cheaper for tanking shots, and it blocks longer; plus it spreads quite a lot of creep, and you could get a queen right there in place (not moving it across the map) and extend the creep. By the time he deals with all this, you could have expanded already (normally) and still be ahead.
|
On July 27 2010 05:01 0xDEADFISH wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 04:49 uberdeluxe wrote:
sorry, but this is useless. Once the creep dissipates, as it will in SC2, your building will lose hp gradually and die. You seriously don't understand the point. We know that buildings die off creep... So OP had a good idea, but presented it a bit off: You don't hide a spawning pool on a 3x3 creep patch. That's useless. It'll die unless you get a tumor there. That being said, what you DO is hide a baneling nest / roach warren somewhere. This is viable, it's an all-in cheesy kinda play, plus you need to get to lair for overlord creep spitting. Here's how I see a possible play go: Go standard 13 gas/13 pool, first 100 gas speed. Next 50 gas, do the cancel/build a baneling nest somewhere where an overlord is. They're going to scout you, see no lair. It's still okay because first 100 went into speed. They know that. Next 125 -> banelings, then get your lair ASAP. Obviously hide your banelings well. At this point, if they scan/scout, it's GG for terran (assuming you're busting a terran). He see's the lair going up, doesn't know how long it's been going for. He's going to assume some sort of 1 base muta play, and that's when you bust him. Other good ideas already presented: Stopping a terran from completing a wall, but this seems kinda risky.
IMO, that's the only thing it's viable for. Since the creep will go away rather quickly, you will be loosing hp of the building a while before it's done, and they die atleast as fast as flaming terran buildings. If you save 200+ gas to make a bunch of banelings, hoping you'll win immediately, you can do this. However, if you want to high buildings this early in the game, just get a few lings to block your ramp. If you'r doing a cheesy all-in you'll have lings in all likelihood anyway. You need to remember that all you're gaining is a decreased chance that your opponent will see the building, and what you loose is... the building.
|
Hmm.. what if you were to do the following:
-Scouting drone builds hatchery to interrupt Terran's wall
-Cancels, quickly builds Spine crawler on remaining creep (still interrupting Terran's wall)
-Comes in with Zerglings and either coordinates with Spine crawler dying (to marines most likely) to enter the base, or uproots the crawler and moves in the lings.
I wonder if the timing for all that would work out.. and how many lings you could get there by that time.
|
It seems like this tactic would have pretty low usability in an actual games. The one application that I think would be really useful would be to cancel a hatch at the opponents natural and build a creep tumor there to delay and expansion. Terrans could scan the CT though, so is would seem to only be a good idea against protoss, since they would need to get an observer to clear the creep out.
Still, its a nice tactic to keep in mind.
|
Using a hatchery to stop their wall would be ludicrous. The timing doesn't work out at all. Going pool first, you can't do it in time, and going hatch first, your pool won't be done in time to get any sort of advantage. All teran has to do is get a bunker and make reapers. Reapers can kill the building off fast, AND punish you for getting a late pool.
|
On July 27 2010 05:47 P00RKID wrote:
Using a hatchery to stop their wall would be ludicrous. The timing doesn't work out at all. Going pool first, you can't do it in time, and going hatch first, your pool won't be done in time to get any sort of advantage. All teran has to do is get a bunker and make reapers. Reapers can kill the building off fast, AND punish you for getting a late pool.
Yeah, that's true, I forgot the hatch costs 300 even though you only really 'spend' 75.
|
On July 27 2010 02:06 sieesch wrote:
its really strong for hiding banelingnest in zvt
14 gas
14 pool
get metabolic
get 2 lings to kill svc
hide banelingnest, terran will scan your main for sure and if there is no baneling nest and no lair coming he feels save and think you got expo
there will be no bunker behind wall and no bigger buldings behind his depot
You don't have enough minerals to save up to 300 to do a bust, nor can you really afford the 75 lost, can you?
|
I'm not going to lie...I have had thoughts about this 3 x 3 creep idea myself:
14 Pool
15 Hatch, Cancel > Spine Crawler
ZLings > ??? > PROFIT
|
[theorycrafting]
Lets say it's early game ZvP. You hid your scouting drone in his base, and have a decent number of lings outside his ramp. You could use this tactic, and force him to take his Zealots off the ramp, allowing lings to get through. The other alternative for the Protoss player is to use his probes to kill the spine crawler before it finishes, in which case you could cancel the spine crawler. He may end up losing slightly more minerals than you did with probes off the mineral line, I'm not completely sure though.
I am so going to test this come release.
|
I reallllly like the idea of hiding the bling nest with this.
|
i dont really see this being effective at the higher tiers of play but it could be fun in a 4v4 lol
|
it seem so difficult and so improbable... but still, even if you do build 3x3 structure, it die kwickly w/ out tumor
|
How about instead of using it for attacking, use it for defending? Since the creep nerf, the creep cooldowns as fast as it expands. So to get the maximal effect of the creep tumour, what if one puts down and cancels the hatchery at a 1 creep tumour spread radius away from the nearest creep, and then plant a tumour at the creep. In theory, you may be able to spread creep twice as fast?
Edit: Now that I think about it, you can than use this method to get a quick wall off like terran/ protoss.... (Once you put the tumour down at a choke, use the remaining money from the hatchery on static defense)
|
This means you can build tech buildings anywhere. There will be a point in the game where that is worth 75 minerals.
|
On July 28 2010 03:56 Cloak wrote:
This means you can build tech buildings anywhere. There will be a point in the game where that is worth 75 minerals.
only first few minutes of the game, which sorta limits it to 2 tech buildings since everyone knows you'll get a spawning pool anyway.
once you hit lair you can just hide with overlord vomit without the mineral loss
|
On July 28 2010 04:04 baconbits wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2010 03:56 Cloak wrote:
This means you can build tech buildings anywhere. There will be a point in the game where that is worth 75 minerals. only first few minutes of the game, which sorta limits it to 2 tech buildings since everyone knows you'll get a spawning pool anyway. once you hit lair you can just hide with overlord vomit without the mineral loss
So, it'll be limited to Banelings or Roach, I guess.
|
|
|
At some time, where Queens off-creep walking speed was a bit faster and Spine Crawler burrow time was still 6 seconds, you could Spinerush an opponent by cancelling a Hatcherie and placing a creep tumor on it.
Hidden 6 or 7 Pool isn't really a good idea because it often doesn't get scouted anyway... it's just luck if the opponent is prepared or not.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
