EPT[D] Finding a reason to get upgrades. - Page 3
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Chill
Calgary26003 Posts
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Xahhk
Canada540 Posts
On July 26 2010 09:15 harky wrote: Some interesting stuff. In regard to Carriers though there is a slight flaw. While they do technically get +16 for each weapon upgrade, they also receive -16 for each opposing armor upgrade. D'oh. This is pretty damaging if you look at something like Carrier vs BC. BCs at +3 have 6 armor. So at +3 weapons a full wave of Interceptors only does 32 damage. That's ~10 DPS. Roughly what 4 Marines would do. It's only slightly better than 1 Stalker... Pretty abysmal against Corruptors (5 armor) as well. Both beat Carriers at roughly half the cost. Vikings do the same, but have the range advantage as well and after you reach a certain mass of Vikings you can take out many times their worth in Carriers. Last I tired I was able to pick off 18 Carriers with 12 Vikings before losing the first Viking (you often take 2-3 hits as you kite away). Basically I traded 150/75 for 8100/4500. Because of stuff like this don't expect to see Carriers thought of as better. Especially when not only do Terran and Zerg beat them in the air, but so do Void Rays. They do beat Phoenix and Banshees though. Does that count?  Wait, is -16 per armor necessarily the case? If the interceptor shots hit simultaneously doesn't the armor value apply only once? Also in regards to individual interceptors, doesn't their dual attack fire at the same time? | ||
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viscral
United States45 Posts
Determining what upgrades your opponent has is a subtle but effective way to determine your upgrade path, tactics, and overall strategy. For example, I see hydras, I try to kite at various times to see if he has the range upgrade, and learn how much of his play will revolve around that unit. I love the carrier bit, as that was the first unit we saw in the original starcraft, when it annihilated the zerg infested terran planet. When I think protoss, that scene is always central.  Hope to see more carriers in play.Anyway, great original post. Thanks. | ||
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harky
98 Posts
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nujgnoy
United States204 Posts
I'll have to look into this but I remember I had my thor attack a unit only once. For example, if I made it move too quickly after shooting a drone, it shot the worker only once and the drone lived. I'm 90% certain this is what happened. If this is true, then multiple attacks would damage a unit in multiple chunks, meaning armor would be applied multiple times. But this is just what I think and I could be wrong, will have to test it out. | ||
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Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
On July 26 2010 18:24 obsid wrote: I was going to say the same thing.I would call +1 range attack critical if your going a quick roach attack in ZvZ though. 2 hits rather then 3 is big (against zerglings and banelings which is probably what your going to fight). Even if the other guy went roaches too, its still a 12% bump, so its better to have the upgrade and 9 roaches then have 10 roaches and no upgrade. And if you do push out and see roaches, you can always back off and get more roaches (18 roaches with upgrade better then 20 without, etc), force him to keep getting roaches or get overrun, while you save the larva you didnt need because of the upgrade to drone. Except you REALLY need to watch out about getting early upgrades in roach vs roach. Not only does it take a long time for the research to finish (time used to gain more money with drones, or moreso a few more roaches), but the cost of upgradeing level 1 attack is much more than the cost of 1 roach. 1 upgrade is about the same cost of 2.5 roaches. Not only that, but 9 roaches with upgrade isn't even superior to 10 roaches without, because while their damage output is slightly higher (very slight), their pooled heath is LOWER, since they have 145 less health as a whole. I used to go fast ranged attack, and it would work well cause most people weren't going roaches first, and those that were, it still worked against (because they were too defensive due to teching to mutas, expanding, or something else. But then I got utterly dominated when a guy went standard mass roach. I got fried cause i rushed evo upgrade (and possibly burrow as well), and was just completely out-numbered. Being 2 units down can really swing a mirror match, but this was even worse. | ||
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ohN
United States1075 Posts
Never realized a lot of the points you've made. | ||
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