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I greatly enjoyed the guide.
Like several other people I found comments on zerglings murdering zealots a bit optimistic. In ideal circumstances, when you can get a full surround, lings are perhaps better for their mineral cost, but frequently your lings have to fight line vs line because of terrain or army positioning. I guess this just goes to show how important flanking and getting good attack angles is.
One thing I felt was left out is the upgrade battle between zealots and zerglings. As Day 9 likes to point out, if zealots are ahead in attack upgrades relative to zergling carapace upgrades then they only take 2 hits rather than 3 to kill the lings, so staying at least even on carapace upgrades is very important in ZvP.
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On July 21 2010 04:34 Chex wrote:
This is a great guide Thank you for putting it together. My only real comment/criticism is in reference to your ZvP section.
First and foremost, Protoss is at a distinct advantage early game. Zealots murder Zerglings and Stalkers beat out Roaches assuming good micro. I think the balance switches to Z's favor once you've gotten your lair and first expansion up, but you still need to be hyper aware for the dreaded 4 gate push. If you whore drones too much that will just kill you outright.
I also question your choice of Muta versus Protoss. This is a matter of style so take my comments with a grain of salt, but against a gateway heavy build or a 4 gate, the Protoss will just push you and kill you even if you are harassing his main. This isn't a guide on builds so maybe my comments are out of place, but I would caution newer players from thinking Mutas are the best unit in all 3 match ups.
Also, Ultralisks absolutely RAPE the gateway + collosi mix and with some hydra back up they shut down the gateway robo build pretty well too. The last few patches really brought the Ultra back into the game, and I'd encourage people to try them out as much as possible in ZvP in particular.
Otherwise though, awesome awesome guide. Thanks for the hard work! Only 7 days left!
I am a very strong believer that mutas are a very good choice as opening tech at tier 2 in any match up and in almost any situation. Many protoss have problems when the Z does a switch from mutalisks to hydralisks. They overcompensate for mutalisks with building massive amounts of stalkers or cannons which aren't all that great vs hydralisks or even mass lings for that matter, once you make that switch. In addition you'll already have your spire up and will be able to pump corruptors once colossi show up. Again, make 6-12 mutas and switch techs. Mutas aren't supposed to win you the game, they are there to screw with your opponent. I feel like most people don't understand that.
I'll also stand by my zerglings. No one is telling you to turn on berserker mode and throw wave after wave after wave of zerglings into a wall of zealots. Play smart, try to fight on creep, put up 2-3 spine crawlers if you have to, just defend your nat and whore drones. Once you get muta/ling or hydras out you'll steamroll his contain. If it's a 4-gate that rarely has a follow up, just wait him out. He'll eventually get desperate and attack into your nat.
Fine, I caved. I changed it -.- , geez you people are so damn annoying some times xP
I only had 2 games that I made ultra 1st was me against some bronze P scrub on scrap that I beat with ultraling and 2nd was a ZvT game on meta where I took a very early gold expansion and just teched to Tier 3 like mad. So as you can see I can't really comment on ultras. I usually don't have the money to get more than 1 at a time.
In addition to all that:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=137016
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=136886
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=126611
On July 21 2010 04:57 Illykai wrote:
I greatly enjoyed the guide.
One thing I felt was left out is the upgrade battle between zealots and zerglings. As Day 9 likes to point out, if zealots are ahead in attack upgrades relative to zergling carapace upgrades then they only take 2 hits rather than 3 to kill the lings, so staying at least even on carapace upgrades is very important in ZvP.
Yeah, I honestly don't know how that slipped my mind while writing the guide. Added!
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Absolutely the best guide I've found so far.
Thanks!
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Nice write-up, but you mentioned lurkers.. Why ?
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Very awesome guide, thanks!
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wow pretty nice writeup man, good job!!
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Very nice to see someone putting so much effort in helping others with a good guide, but:
" It is advised to keep corruptors near broodlords to help fend off vikings."
Immediately stopped reading here 
The rest i read from it was pretty correct, though. Hope u keep up the work.
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On July 23 2010 04:51 evilshady wrote:Very nice to see someone putting so much effort in helping others with a good guide, but: " It is advised to keep corruptors near broodlords to help fend off vikings." Immediately stopped reading here The rest i read from it was pretty correct, though. Hope u keep up the work.
What should be wrong with this?
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I will be switching to Zerg after release, and have been practicing my macro in the build order tester. After reading the macro section I am still a little unclear about the best way to control unit production from hatcheries. I assume the best way to create offensive units is to bind every hatch to one key and macro from there, simple enough.
What i am having trouble with is building drones to saturate a new expansion. When i have to build more drones (after the initial transfer), I have heard to simply set the rally point of all your hatcheries to the new expansion and build drones as you would army units, but this seems inefficient (extra travel time, danger of being picked off as they move to the expansion), so would binding every hatchery to it's own hotkey be the best way to solve this problem (and make drones where they are needed)? Or perhaps a hotkey that is always my newest expansion? any advice for an efficient way to do this would be great.
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On July 23 2010 04:51 evilshady wrote:Very nice to see someone putting so much effort in helping others with a good guide, but: " It is advised to keep corruptors near broodlords to help fend off vikings." Immediately stopped reading here The rest i read from it was pretty correct, though. Hope u keep up the work.
Cause queens or hydras are much better vs vikings, right?
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On July 23 2010 05:35 ohN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2010 04:51 evilshady wrote:Very nice to see someone putting so much effort in helping others with a good guide, but: " It is advised to keep corruptors near broodlords to help fend off vikings." Immediately stopped reading here The rest i read from it was pretty correct, though. Hope u keep up the work. Cause queens or hydras are much better vs vikings, right?
yeah.. almost anything you make in zvt aren't gonna be cost-effective so corruptors to kill vikings is fine, if he overcommits to vikings you can most likely switch to ultraling and he won't have enough tanks/thors to stand a chance against what with all the vikings 
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On July 23 2010 05:32 Xeiph wrote:
What i am having trouble with is building drones to saturate a new expansion. When i have to build more drones (after the initial transfer), I have heard to simply set the rally point of all your hatcheries to the new expansion and build drones as you would army units, but this seems inefficient (extra travel time, danger of being picked off as they move to the expansion), so would binding every hatchery to it's own hotkey be the best way to solve this problem (and make drones where they are needed)? Or perhaps a hotkey that is always my newest expansion? any advice for an efficient way to do this would be great.
Generally, if I don't fast expand at 13-15 supply, I will over-saturate my main with about 30-35 drones. When my expo comes up I will box select about 10 of the drones on minerals at my main and send them to the expo. I will also transfer my queen to the expo, and will usually have a second queen up already or will be building another queen at the main. As soon as the vomit larvae is ready I will turn those 4 larvae, along with the first few larvae that spawn at the expo to drones. So very quickly I have 15-20 drones on my expo. I set the expo to a new hotkey, but I also add it to the hotkey for my main hatch as well. I do this so I can select the expo specifically to build extra drones, but since it's also on the main hotkey if I need to train a lot of units quick I can use the larvae for that as well.
Hope this helps.
Quick rundown:
30+ drones at your main and 2 queens (if you didn't do a super early expo)
Transfer about 10 drones and a queen to the expo when it comes up.
Train first 7 larvae (3 hatch spawn, 4 spawn larvae) as drones.
This should get your expo at 15-17 drones very quickly.. then just continue to add from there.
One of my favorite things about Zerg is how quickly they are able to saturate an expo. With 2 hatches if you are keeping spawn larvae up on both you should have a lot of larvae built up, and can easily train 5-10 drones at once.
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Thanks alot for the write up. A lot of effort and it's very apreciated!
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On July 23 2010 04:53 limbokid wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2010 04:51 evilshady wrote:Very nice to see someone putting so much effort in helping others with a good guide, but: " It is advised to keep corruptors near broodlords to help fend off vikings." Immediately stopped reading here The rest i read from it was pretty correct, though. Hope u keep up the work. What should be wrong with this?
Ok its not totally wrong to have a few corrupters if you go really heavy air, but that sounds like corrupters are the natural counter vs vikings which is wrong because mutas are WAY more cost effective vs vikings.
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I didn't see any mention of the creep tumor's ability to create a creep tumor itself. I played as zerg for days before I realized that.
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Nice guide, Really explains alot although not super detailed goes over many tricks and basics Ty!
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Damn when did you have the time to make this I hope this helps out a lot of zergs out there become better I would love to see such a intricate guide for protoss and terran from other people as well. Good job!
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Awsome post, will help alot of new players I bet!
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On July 22 2010 05:13 Pholon wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Seriously man, some good stuff in here. With some reformatting we could have some great articles. This topic'll be old in a week, the wiki will live forever!  (well okay not forever maybe cause of the zombie apolcalypse but ok)
Yessir! 
On July 23 2010 08:03 evilshady wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2010 04:53 limbokid wrote:On July 23 2010 04:51 evilshady wrote:Very nice to see someone putting so much effort in helping others with a good guide, but: " It is advised to keep corruptors near broodlords to help fend off vikings." Immediately stopped reading here The rest i read from it was pretty correct, though. Hope u keep up the work. What should be wrong with this? Ok its not totally wrong to have a few corrupters if you go really heavy air, but that sounds like corrupters are the natural counter vs vikings which is wrong because mutas are WAY more cost effective vs vikings.
The problem is mutalisk range. It's 3. The vikings will have plenty of time to shoot and run back to thors that will absolutely annihilate your mutalisks. Corruptors have range 5-6. They aren't there to kill the vikings per-se, they're there to take the hits that would otherwise kill the boordlords. With range 5-6 instead of 3 they might actually get a hit on vikings maybe killing 1? They just provide threat with their range and damage, so the vikings won't ignore them and go straight for the broodlords.
And sorry for not answering this earlier, my modem caught on fire 2 days ago :|. There was literally smoke coming out of it like someone would blow out a match, so I needed a new one xD lol.
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EPT
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