[R] viable 2 base mutalisks build orders ?

On July 17 2010 23:22 cr4ckshot wrote:
This is just my opinion but I don't find mutalisks viable at all in any matchup.

Against Terran, turrets and thors shut down any harassment. You may kill a depot or 3-4 scvs but you invented in 600-700 minerals/gas! It's not even worth the investment. Plus mutalisks don't even contribute to the main Zerg army because they get torn by stimmed marines.

Against Protoss, once he sends an observer to scout your early spire, he will either go blinked stalkers with guardian shield or mass phoenixes (no micro required lol). If he goes the phoenix route, say bye to your mutalisks AND overlords.

Against Zerg, one fungal growth is all it takes to shut down mass mutalisks.

There are just so many better options to go as Zerg. Yes, that means Zerg lacks unit diversity but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

On July 17 2010 23:22 cr4ckshot wrote:
This is just my opinion but I don't find mutalisks viable at all in any matchup.

Against Terran, turrets and thors shut down any harassment. You may kill a depot or 3-4 scvs but you invented in 600-700 minerals/gas! It's not even worth the investment. Plus mutalisks don't even contribute to the main Zerg army because they get torn by stimmed marines.

Against Protoss, once he sends an observer to scout your early spire, he will either go blinked stalkers with guardian shield or mass phoenixes (no micro required lol). If he goes the phoenix route, say bye to your mutalisks AND overlords.

Against Zerg, one fungal growth is all it takes to shut down mass mutalisks.

There are just so many better options to go as Zerg. Yes, that means Zerg lacks unit diversity but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

On July 17 2010 23:22 cr4ckshot wrote:
This is just my opinion but I don't find mutalisks viable at all in any matchup.

Against Terran, turrets and thors shut down any harassment. You may kill a depot or 3-4 scvs but you invented in 600-700 minerals/gas! It's not even worth the investment. Plus mutalisks don't even contribute to the main Zerg army because they get torn by stimmed marines.

Against Protoss, once he sends an observer to scout your early spire, he will either go blinked stalkers with guardian shield or mass phoenixes (no micro required lol). If he goes the phoenix route, say bye to your mutalisks AND overlords.

Against Zerg, one fungal growth is all it takes to shut down mass mutalisks.

There are just so many better options to go as Zerg. Yes, that means Zerg lacks unit diversity but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

On July 17 2010 23:37 Kiburn wrote:


What I would like to see, and it would be better if you figured it out on your own, is a early game strategy that'll let you deal with such an army, and that transitions very well into a mid to late game Mutalisk strategy (i.e. Roaches with speed and burrowed movement, into Mutas). Like I said, this would be much more effective if you figured out the timings yourself.

On July 17 2010 23:41 Sixes wrote:


Actually you bring up every point why I make mutalisks.

Mutas are not the end of the game most of the time, but they force the enemy into 1-2 unit options.

Make 4-5 mutas early against terran (always with speedlings baneling support) and you will annihilate tanks and marauders once the banelings hit the marines. You then force him to spend 400+minerals on turrets and either get thors or marines or maybe mass vikings. All this for the cost of a few mutas (that will probably also kill some depots and scvs as you mentionned, as well as force another bunch of towers at expands and shut down the option of flying to islands).

Against Protoss you have the same 4-6 mutas to harass, making a few more will shutdown the 4 gate push (note that mutas destroy stalkers at around even numbers and then proceed to eat up all those free zealots, just make sure to focus fire guardian shields). You then force him to either mass stalkers or go phoenixes, both of which are shut down by hydras (which you transition into). And now, if he goes for colossi you have the spire up already. Also you can harass all game with just 6 mutas, if you force 4 cannons in each mineral line the mutas have already payed for themselves, not to mention all the other damage they do. Oh and edit, if phoenixes pop you can also just add 2-3 corruptors and then they are completely done. Effectively at that point he has a useless stargate or two and very few solutions except mass cannons and stalkers.

Against Zerg is the most awkward because of how hard they get countered by hydra and zerg can easily have 2 queens per hatch without handicapping themselves (unlike toss or terran turrets). Then again we all know the power of the speedlings/baneling in zerg and mutas are a much easier transition than hydras (because you get mineral starved on hydra ling). I still go muta frequently and win with them (not only them, usually just as harass while the hydra/roach transition happens). They do kill overlords very nicely and the opposing Zerg will hate playing in the dark. If you force corruptors your hydras will be devastating and if he goes hydra you should be about evenly matched except you have map control. Note that I don't advocate mass muta running at infestors, but keeping map control ealy is nice (and that early if he goes for infestors he wil have a problem because they only have 1 fungal in them (if that)).

On July 18 2010 00:35 rauk wrote:
say T originally planned to go bio. by making mutas you force him to do one of the following four things in combination:
A) make a ton of marines (banelings = lol)
B) make a ton of turrets
C) make thors
D) make vikings

making vikings is the weakest choice. the most common i've seen is A&C, or A&B. without turrets, you can just poke around their base picking off stray scvs, or marines that are by themselves. you can't just think of making mutas as a purely resource investment versus theirs. mutas forces T to stay in his base. if he tries to move out, you can kill all his scvs. if he builds turrets, you've forced him to spend his money on something other than his army, which delays his push, giving you more time to expand/power/tech. if he makes thors, he can drive your mutas off easily, but he can't actually leave his base with his thor until he at least has a second thor to stay behind and defend.

i think it's really important to see muta investment as essentially extra time. you're not trying to kill them. if you kill 10 scvs, that's great, but that's just an extra bonus. just making them stay in their base for another minute or two, or making them spend more on defense and less on their army, is easily worth the investment of 6 measly mutas. no other zerg unit has the mobility to restrict terran to their base while you take map control.

On July 18 2010 03:09 cr4ckshot wrote:


But the thing is, the proper response to both bio+tank and mech is burrow-move roaches/hydras/infestor.

1 base muta obviously delays your normal fast expand (poor economy) and 2 base muta is such a delayed harassment. From my experience, roach/hydra/infestor will let you get your 3rd base even safer than going muta/baneling. Any competent Terran can just stim their marines and run behind their tanks that splash banelings to pieces.

On July 17 2010 23:34 Noocta wrote:
Muta force terran to get more thors instead of tanks, so it can't be bad..