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[G] Ghost mech Terran vs Protoss - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Prev 1 2 3 4 5 15 16 17 Next All
GreggSauce
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States566 Posts
May 06 2010 01:06 GMT
#21
Avilo, I retract any negative things I may have said, this is pretty awesome and well put together, I see a few weaknesses, but if the protoss does the all in 5 gate or something similar I don't really see one.
Must not sleep, must warn others
mrk
Profile Joined March 2006
Korea (South)60 Posts
May 06 2010 01:16 GMT
#22
To the poster wondering how the marauder was effective, I think it was just a question of simplicity and the nerfs.

Massing marauders is easy, building an appropriate (and by this I mean perfectly optimal) protoss army to deal with it takes a little time. Also marauders have been *slightly* nerfed.


Anyways nice guide.very effective. Punishers poor play, but also a little tricky to get right all the time.
Mr.Eternity
Profile Joined May 2010
United States143 Posts
May 06 2010 01:25 GMT
#23
Wouldn't protoss cannons or stalkers prevent the helion harrass?
Then the protoss could build enough void rays to either completely overpower your vikings or force you to build more rines to counter.
Also, it seems that if the protoss could pick off your ghosts with air then the build becomes vulnerable to immortals again.
It just seems that in general, if the protoss player went 3 gate void rays, this build would have a bunch of difficulties.
"Because nobody can make it alone"
jamvng
Profile Joined October 2008
Canada244 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-06 01:45:48
May 06 2010 01:40 GMT
#24
Does this work against mass stalkers with blink? I think Blink Stalkers are the most scary unit when going ghost mech.

O btw, you should put your opening and mid-late game transition onto liquidpedia heh
newbcake
Profile Joined March 2010
United States57 Posts
May 06 2010 02:57 GMT
#25
Good build, and similar to what I do. But I believe you can improve this by adding thors to your composition for a couple reasons.

1. Thor + medivac adds some much needed mobility to your army and allows you to pick off stray units, harass, and stop expansions.

2. Thors make much better defenders early on since they can be mass-scv repaired. This is important early on when you don't have enough of a critical mass of tanks to deter immortals and blink stalkers.

3. Thors are huge and take up a lot of space and prevent your tanks from being bum rushed by zealots and other units.

4. Thors stop phoenixes and voidrays, and with EMP can kill most gateway units in a hit. They can also 250 mm cannon colossus and immortals.

The only weakness thors have is against HT, but that is pretty typical of TvP matches turning into a ghost vs HT match.
DragonDefonce
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States790 Posts
May 06 2010 03:17 GMT
#26
Thors are definitely better than tanks, simply because they cover air, more mobile, and they do ridiculous damage to armored. Tanks, while awesome for defenses, would not be a good choice for your main army composition due to the fact that constant sieging and unsieging will give toss even more map control and leaves you very vulnerable to voidray/carrier play. While feedback does cut thor hp in half, it does not outright kill it, and if you are quick with the ghost, you can prevent it all together.

The critical weakness with this build IMO is the fact that its awesome if you can get there, but because it is such a late game focused strategy, you could potentially die to early/mid game aggression/all-ins. For example, with the raven opening, what would you do against a 3 gate 1 star voidray/chargelot rush? This seems incredibly vulnerable to that build, as well as your standard immortal push. Also, 2 star void rays are very strong against all the vikings and marines you can throw at it once the voidray charges up. On top of that, even if toss decides to just expand, I think getting your natural up and running would be very tough early on. Maybe a some sort of FE build might be a better set up for this.
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
May 06 2010 04:04 GMT
#27
On May 06 2010 12:17 DragonDefonce wrote:
Thors are definitely better than tanks, simply because they cover air, more mobile, and they do ridiculous damage to armored. Tanks, while awesome for defenses, would not be a good choice for your main army composition due to the fact that constant sieging and unsieging will give toss even more map control and leaves you very vulnerable to voidray/carrier play. While feedback does cut thor hp in half, it does not outright kill it, and if you are quick with the ghost, you can prevent it all together.

The critical weakness with this build IMO is the fact that its awesome if you can get there, but because it is such a late game focused strategy, you could potentially die to early/mid game aggression/all-ins. For example, with the raven opening, what would you do against a 3 gate 1 star voidray/chargelot rush? This seems incredibly vulnerable to that build, as well as your standard immortal push. Also, 2 star void rays are very strong against all the vikings and marines you can throw at it once the voidray charges up. On top of that, even if toss decides to just expand, I think getting your natural up and running would be very tough early on. Maybe a some sort of FE build might be a better set up for this.


actually, the absolute strength of the opening is that you can survive any all-in quite easily.
Sup
Floophead_III
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1832 Posts
May 06 2010 04:16 GMT
#28
On May 06 2010 13:04 avilo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2010 12:17 DragonDefonce wrote:
Thors are definitely better than tanks, simply because they cover air, more mobile, and they do ridiculous damage to armored. Tanks, while awesome for defenses, would not be a good choice for your main army composition due to the fact that constant sieging and unsieging will give toss even more map control and leaves you very vulnerable to voidray/carrier play. While feedback does cut thor hp in half, it does not outright kill it, and if you are quick with the ghost, you can prevent it all together.

The critical weakness with this build IMO is the fact that its awesome if you can get there, but because it is such a late game focused strategy, you could potentially die to early/mid game aggression/all-ins. For example, with the raven opening, what would you do against a 3 gate 1 star voidray/chargelot rush? This seems incredibly vulnerable to that build, as well as your standard immortal push. Also, 2 star void rays are very strong against all the vikings and marines you can throw at it once the voidray charges up. On top of that, even if toss decides to just expand, I think getting your natural up and running would be very tough early on. Maybe a some sort of FE build might be a better set up for this.


actually, the absolute strength of the opening is that you can survive any all-in quite easily.


This opening beats all ground-based allins. I don't know how to adapt to voidrays since I don't play TvP much these days but I'd like to see what people find regarding voidray play.
Half man, half bear, half pig.
Vattilega
Profile Joined April 2010
United States52 Posts
May 06 2010 04:18 GMT
#29
Watched the replays and i have to say, thats exactly how i want to play. It's pure pwnage. I dont know what these people are talking about, the build is too dynamic for any toss strat to work. You can adapt too quickly and its not easy for them to know where your going with your build.
Quality replays, quality post!
master league
wonksaggin
Profile Joined March 2010
United States73 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-06 04:44:54
May 06 2010 04:29 GMT
#30
First, I'd like to say thanks to Avilo for writing this guide, as well as providing the replays to show for it. Now, 2 Rax Marine/Ghost opening into a bunker-expo and transitioning into Raven/Tank/Banshee composition is also very powerful with EMP that early in the game. By the time it turns mid-game you practically are able to roll any Protoss unit composition as long as it isn't bigger than yours. If it is just as big you may want to just Banshee and Hellion harrass them while you macro up, and of course x3 Ghost Nuking expansions if it gets to that point.

As far as Protoss goes, (can't leave you guys out, haha); I'm guessing, what is going to be a standard counter to this Terran build, would be a Nony Phoenix opening as they move really fast. Initially, early on, they are able to scout this Avilo build as soon as the first Phoenix pops. With them, you can try sniping off Ravens before they meet your army and can put down their PDD. Furthermore, they also have the ability of disabling Tanks when Terrans push. However, in terms of army to army engagement with Marine/Ghosts, and Vikings thrown into the mix, EMPs would make Phoenixes drop like flys and negate their ability to lift units.
soliddew
Profile Joined April 2010
United States28 Posts
May 06 2010 04:33 GMT
#31
this strategy is exactly what i was looking for. thank you so much.
wussleeQ
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States3130 Posts
May 06 2010 04:41 GMT
#32
You have given me some great ideas here. Well written and makes me rethink about playing as a random player. I will have to try some of this. Thanks for reinvigorating my love for terran ^_^.
BW -> League -> CSGO
WorkersOfTheWorld
Profile Joined April 2010
United States619 Posts
May 06 2010 04:51 GMT
#33
I'm not looking forward to this catching on. =P
Samwise: You don't want to play Dustin [Browder]. He can't even beat the UI, let alone the AI. -
TheNomad
Profile Joined April 2010
United States134 Posts
May 06 2010 05:04 GMT
#34
Avilo I have actually been practicing a build almost exactly like this, with great success. You have enlightened me with the nuke harass but I have found a possible play with this build as well. As soon as you have a banshee+raven, 3 tanks and siege mode is researching, push with about 4-5 SCV's and try to throw up 3+ bunkers, if he for some reason early expanded, this can really punish it and end the game right there, if he is on a map such as lost temple and decided not to expand, then bunker up his natural and rally banshee+tank+marine to it while constantly producing bunkers and make sure to throw down your expo. Contain him while your on 2 base an proceed to out macro and roll him. Every time I get the contain off with 5-6+++ bunkers I win, this is on non-backdoor maps of course, such as LT.

I do really like your build though, usually I do the same thing, I love the raven early for stopping obs, and Ghosts are a must because 5+ temps with energy are the bane to the terran army. The only problem I have ran into so far are watchful protosses who spread templars and have quite a few observers and proceed to feedback ghost/banshees/ravens at the beginning of battle.
Nilaus
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark159 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-06 05:49:52
May 06 2010 05:44 GMT
#35
Excellent post. I really appreciate the effort you have put into it.
My immediate thought is "awesome idea", then I consider that you are basing your strat on the 3 most gas intensive units in the Terran arsenal: Raven, Tank and Ghost. How do you manange that gas cost on just 2 geysers and how do you spend all the excess minerals?

All in all I am looking forward to trying it, also with Thors instead of Tanks to see how that works.
FishNChips
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United Kingdom107 Posts
May 06 2010 05:49 GMT
#36
1v1? i'll smash your ghost mech
Can I get a spot of tea?
vOddy
Profile Joined July 2009
Sweden402 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-06 05:51:22
May 06 2010 05:50 GMT
#37
But what if he opens voidrays? I'm still not convinced that his would fare well against a voidray opening :/

And scouting voidrays in time is very hard. Even if you scan the enemy base instead of MULE, he might have put it in a corner somewhere. And just because you see 2 gateways and no robo doesn't mean he put up a sneaky stargate somewhere - it may as well have been a sneaky robo.

Idk man, my fear of voidrays makes me stick to 1 rax marauder FE into 4 rax marine mass. Tanks own EMP'd protoss, though. Stalkers, Immortals, and even Colossi all seem to die so fast without their precious shields.
"You generate awesomeness. It just flows from you."
FishNChips
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United Kingdom107 Posts
May 06 2010 05:51 GMT
#38
warp prism + high templar = gg u
Can I get a spot of tea?
Hellhammer
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada144 Posts
May 06 2010 06:47 GMT
#39
On May 06 2010 14:51 FishNChips wrote:
warp prism + high templar = gg u

Ghost>HT. Warp prism may pose a little bit of a threat. I am sure Avilo came across that though and has an answer. If I come across it in the replays I'll post here.
If Jesus comes, kill him again.
jamvng
Profile Joined October 2008
Canada244 Posts
May 06 2010 06:52 GMT
#40
On May 06 2010 14:50 vOddy wrote:
But what if he opens voidrays? I'm still not convinced that his would fare well against a voidray opening :/

And scouting voidrays in time is very hard. Even if you scan the enemy base instead of MULE, he might have put it in a corner somewhere. And just because you see 2 gateways and no robo doesn't mean he put up a sneaky stargate somewhere - it may as well have been a sneaky robo.

Idk man, my fear of voidrays makes me stick to 1 rax marauder FE into 4 rax marine mass. Tanks own EMP'd protoss, though. Stalkers, Immortals, and even Colossi all seem to die so fast without their precious shields.


If you watch some of the replays...plenty of toss he faces open void rays..but because there are so many marines in his opening and it's so easy to transition into vikings, void rays openings are fine...
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