EPTPvT Ghost EMP - Page 10
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fieros
United States5 Posts
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dshsdhk
Korea (South)61 Posts
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eohs
United States677 Posts
On May 04 2010 02:04 Chill wrote: Don't clump your units. Don't amass spellcasters if you know he's making units that specifically counter them. Even if we dont clump are casters, it still is gg, because if u have 5 ghosts one EMP wont be that missed, I have been getting EMP attack vs Terran every game, I am not bitching but I hate TERRAN with a passion I cant win vs them, i went phoenix harassed his mineral line he had maybe 4 scvs when i left, then i had 10 stalkers and 3 zeals with 2 imo and 5 senteries , he came in with 5 ghosts and 5 marauders , and 10 marines and GG me ,with me microing it had NO effect on the EMP and him raping me. | ||
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Thoreezhea1
United States532 Posts
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On May 07 2010 15:32 dshsdhk wrote: dont forget that ghosts can get cloaked, so u have to go robotic/cidadel/templar achives, taking a eternity and 700gas+++ ... ghost´s are the most ridiculous unit on this game right now... just look at sc1, to get EMP u need to make vessels that need factory and staport, and the science facility, vessels cost 100-225, and u must research the EMP and its 100 energy, why? because EMP FUCKING DESTROY PROTOSS, DESTROY EVERYTHING, GROUND AND AIR UNITS, FUCKING EVERYTHING, i dont know what blizzard have in mind to give such a easy EMP tech from a ghost that just need the barrack and the ghost academy, without even need to research for it, and just 75 energy, and also the ghost can be cloaked, and nuke... this is a big joke, nowadays imortals vs terran = suicide, protoss became terrible against terran if they go ghost rush, marauders with stim + EMP > sentry/stalker/imortal... when the terrans go ghost rush, if u go sentry/zea u lose, if u go stalker/sentry/imortal u lose, if u go stalker/sentry u lose, wth is that? basically u cant attack, but u cant know if they are going ghosts or not, protoss can only play with void + 3gatways? or going colo rush? definitely this isnt right, this game need some changes... 100 energy + research would be the way ... whoa whoa ragemuch? You don't have to go robo first as you have to research cloak for ghosts which takes a while. Certainly it is very hard to feedback ghosts as they blend in so well with bio armies and can cloak, and I agree w/ everybody saying there's no real counter. But I've come to realize that even so, if you can get off a couple storms off before emp goes off and/or from emps that miss your HT, it still makes HT worth it as it is so devastating to their army. At least HT have the option of morphing to archons so they aren't totally useless w/o energy. I've also started to split my HT army into 2 control groups to help with positioning and avoiding emp. | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
On July 14 2010 10:47 ezo[bt] wrote: Even if we dont clump are casters, it still is gg, because if u have 5 ghosts one EMP wont be that missed, What? 5 ghosts? Some of these posts are really ridiculous. 5 ghosts is 750 gas. | ||
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TheRipper
United States10 Posts
If your opponent has 5 ghosts against you, you aren't pushing hard enough. Ive never seen more than 2 ghosts in a terran ball against me. and even then i still have a 50/50 winning. Avoid chokes, avoid ramps. Fight in the open and flank. Your observer should catch the army moving out, so throw zealts off to the side, collosi on the closest cliff if you can, otherwise in back, and the stalkers and sentrys on another side. 3 or so control groups at this point is literally almost 1a2a3a. pop your sentries gs before you go in, micro the collosi around to keep them alive. if your forces match theres you can come out on top. Granted, theres a ton we Protoss have to do to beat this, and I think its a tad unfair that we need to work so hard as opposed to Terrans move 5 feet over to avoid storm. I think EMP needs to be over 5 seconds 20 shield a second. but thats just my view. | ||
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superman.
65 Posts
dude, this isnt chess, a HT is not a ghost, in the same way that a zealot is not a marine, a voidray is not a banshee, a hydra is not a hellion, etc. each race is balanced as a whole, not individually. /facepalm | ||
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scvrush-
United States31 Posts
from http://www.theuen.com Here is a really good demonstration of EMP strategy vs the protoss. I really like the fact that feedback has 2 more range than the ghost but the ghost can cloak. This brings a lot of back and forth strategy to the table. | ||
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SharkSpider
Canada606 Posts
For Protoss players struggling against EMP, try 3 gate - robo - gate - council - gate in a standard game. Charge will come before army size gets to the point where you need it, observers will be available for map control and scouting, and Immortals will be there in case there aren't actually ghosts right away. Usually I get aggressive with stalkers, then make a judgment call as to whether or not blink can win me the game. It's tough for a Terran to bounce back against early stalkers without investing too much in Marauders, so usually you'll be able to hold map control if you play well. Then, when he decides to reveal his ghost tech, you'll be prepared with guardian shields, flanking zealots, and hopefully charge. This mix will decimate MMG armies in most cases, and it won't rely on early Colossi to save the day. For people arguing that EMP is perfectly balanced, it might be, but at high level play I doubt the game will go anywhere if it stays as is. The simple fact is that EMP outranges anything in the game save Siege Tanks (See: casting range plus splashing forward), shoots instantly with a big splash radius, halves the effectiveness of more than half of the Protoss units (Stalkers, Sentries, Immortals, Observers, High Templar, Dark Templar, Phoenixes) and can be cast by a Tier Two unit that has decent HP (much better than SC1), a tiny model, the ability to cloak and snipe during late-game, and an attack that does a surprising amount of damage to the one unit that gets affected the least by EMP, the Zealot. For less resources than a stalker and a sentry, (and pretty close to that of a Dark Templar), Ghosts are basically a no-brainer because there's basically no composition that they won't pull their own weight and more against, if managed properly. In short, basically everything in SC2 has at least some situation where it totally outshines any other unit. Ghosts can do this in basically every situation involving Terran fighting Protoss. It needs to be a little more situational, whether that's by adding a projectile like in SC1, scaling back the damage, maybe removing the decloak effect, or whatever works. It doesn't need to be given the Psistorm treatment and nerfed in AOE, damage and duration, but it sure as hell needs a bit of a tweak so that it doesn't completely dominate one matchup once the game progresses a little further. | ||
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Torture
Canada221 Posts
On July 14 2010 13:39 scvrush- wrote: EMP and storm is like a counter to each other imo. Recent high level PvT gameplays all have a mix of ghost or templar in their army composition. Its kind of like who can draw out each other. Once that happens, both teams engage for the showdown. Check out games by White ra vs TLO, amazing storm and ghost usage! Whitra has like 3 templars in his main groups and 3 more in another gorup which gives TLO some what of a hard time finding and emping them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lZVQU_AVQg from http://www.theuen.com Here is a really good demonstration of EMP strategy vs the protoss. I really like the fact that feedback has 2 more range than the ghost but the ghost can cloak. This brings a lot of back and forth strategy to the table. I couldn't agree more. Storm/Feedback vs EMP makes for a very interesting dynamic in PvT. As a Protoss player I'd like to see Blizzard tweak it a little bit, but it certainly makes for exciting games. | ||
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ZomgTossRush
United States1041 Posts
And playing Pvt I have yet to find a suitable counter against 3 rax ghost. I am sure there is a way, just trying to find it. | ||
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Ploppytheman
United States248 Posts
On May 04 2010 02:40 Craz wrote: That makes no sense, why would you count a pylon as you can build all those buildings in your first pylon that you got around 10 food, or are we talking about a terran who NEVER gets supply depots and rushes straight to ghost?. And you didn't add in tech addon / energy regen. And you forgot chrono boosting. Pylon needs to be built BEFORE other buildings, you can start barracks and THEN build a depo never interrupting your progress, are you trolling or just stupid? Tech addons? You mean things that build at the same time as your next building. Add on tech lab while u make ghost academy very advanced tactic there. Buildings cant be chrono boosted... the collo might save 25sec off the time, so thats what 140 + energy (+25 energy = 50sec?) compared to 255 minimum not counting thermal lance which is almost required. And even with lance stim + rauders can easily snipe a collo if it doesn't have a cliff or a choke. Stimmed rauder do retarded dps and move super fast. Not to mention you can sit a 2nd OC in your base and expand when you feel like it while toss needs to wait and be able to hold it. Also note that marine/rauder itself is good and adding ghosts is just extra. Not having the collo means you could die at any moment. Rine/Rauder is light on gas while anything besides lots costs gas and would delay the collo furthur. I don't even rec Collo to counter this but your argument was so retarded I couldn't help myself. | ||
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Ploppytheman
United States248 Posts
Personally I would go chargelots/storm. Collo takes way too long to get although they make a good transition. chargelots + storm is deadly and easy to replenish. Again spread your temps. If you can keep a few temps on a highground and take your natural you can hold till Collo come out. Personally I hate sentries and immortals and use them little. One thing to note is that marines get RAPED by stalkers so you can force him to make more marauders with lots of pressure early. This will delay him by gas, supply, and using up time on his rax. Transition into chargelots/templar and you should have storms to use defensively while you get your nat up, and by being offensive you give yourself more time to prepare for him coming back. If able getting blink is also useful as you can hit and run when his army starts moving to your main. Blin > Concussive shells and with blinking to highground you can get quite a few shots off. For instance on BListerning sands leave a unit on the watchtower and then kite him to it. He will chase b/cif you went blink stalkers your force looks ripe for rauders (which it is). But when you blink up onto the tower and take 1/3 of his armies hp he won't be too happy. He won't have medivacs this early so it will furthur deter him from committing with weak units. Not to mention if he stims rofl. DTs sent one at a time can also ruin him as he probably won't have any ravens and only a few scans. Try to target ghosts first if they aren't cloaked and rauders after that (if his marines have 55hp its not worth 2 hits, 3 hits on a maruader seems much more effective). This is gas heavy though and only worth it if you can get a dt into his workers as well as one on his army. One other thing I've heard is try to kill his rines and then mop up the rest with void rays. Or go void ray at his base and if he still attacks make sentries up your ramp and just block ur ramp with FF for as long as you want (I think u need 5). The voids can rape his main and it might just be GG. Immortals are slow and retarded (like sentries) and get EMP and die, or rines eat shields, or mauraders are like LOL STIM WUTS HARDUN SHELL?  (Edit: Why is my sad clown : * ( a kissy face? Sadface. | ||
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Skyze
Canada2324 Posts
Do a test.. 12 Marines vs 5 stalkers (600 min each) straight up attack move.. Who would win? It would be close, but probably the marines. Thats not counting STIM.. Marine HP shields.. and the extra 125 gas that 5 stalkers would cost. Want to give stalkers blink? Doesnt make a difference when it comes to straight up attack move battle. Micro? Sure, you can win if the stalkers are microed.. But then add in 2 marauders with slow, and you cant use your stalker range to your advantage anymore, because each time you pull back, 2 stalkers will die. Its not so bad when you look at it alone, but keep in mind how Mules give terran such an economy boost, added with the "counters" to marines being so weak (even Zealots, without gaurdian shield and charge, would die way fast against marines unlike in BW when zeals actually did good vs marines).. Basically terran can A) Have units that win straight up regardless of micro.. and B) Have the nessisary economy boosting to support straight up units, even when fast expoing.. and C) The next 2 units out of the Barracks which decimate every Protoss ground unit in Marauders and Ghosts, sprinkled in with mass Marines makes an insane army. Oh. and EMP, which instantly makes a protoss army half HP in one long-ranged large radius shot for 75 mana. Combine that with Marines when you can have 12 for every 5 zealots or stalkers the opponent has. | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4335 Posts
I play T so maybe Im biased buuuttt I think its fine. You can deal with it. Spread your HTs and sentries (oh and dont come here complaining that if there are 5ghosts wtf?). I usually send 2 ghosts with my main force and thats about it, they are expensive so I try to keep them alive and usually only build more if they die or if they're in a no win fight that I cant run from  | ||
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Rockstar25
Poland22 Posts
EMP should work similar like Lockdown from bw. Ghost should launch rocket that would be dodge able instead instant emp. Storm does damage too fast, it was slower in BW. | ||
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Competent
United States406 Posts
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Kratisto
United States199 Posts
On July 14 2010 19:51 Rockstar25 wrote: Storm does damage too fast, it was slower in BW. Storm does 112 damage in Brood War and 80 damage in SC2, and lasts for the same number of ticks in both games (does 10 damage every half tick in SC2 and 12 damage every half tick in BW). Ticks might be faster in SC2, but I'm pretty sure squares were larger in Brood War (it feels like it covers less area now, although both are 1.5 radius). It's still a strong spell, though, because units in SC2 are prone to clumping together. Oh and EMP is overpowered and all that. | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4783 Posts
On July 14 2010 20:20 Competent wrote: Its funny how they want EMP to be researched yet we have to have stim/shield + Medivac AND THEN two 150/150 Ghost on the field just to beat their 15 stalker 1a army... I think you need to pit some units versus each other in a unittester... | ||
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