EPT[D] Archon overlooked? - Page 2
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Ideas
United States8108 Posts
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mahnini
United States6862 Posts
On May 02 2010 08:38 dNo_O wrote: pretty sure the bottom line here is that dustin browder is a piece of shit. and the idea that a game's concept should start with "we'll make a bunch of cool units and go from there" is not nearly as blizzard's pre-browder era concepts. don't get me wrong, sc2 is still fun and i will continue playing it, but things like intentionally shitty units just because they overlap with other units is stupid. nothing can make you people happy. first everyone was complaining that units were designed with too narrow a purpose and that blizzard shouldn't assign units specific roles. then when people figured out that blizzard just tried to design cool units and let the player figure out where they fit in people still find ways to complain about it. not every unit in the game will see regular use that's just the way it is. | ||
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dNo_O
United States233 Posts
however, browder's games all have units where it's like, "why the fuck would i ever build that?" which is what the archon is now. <--- trying to go back to topic, sorry if i sort of derailed. | ||
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MoNoNauT
United States74 Posts
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Ideas
United States8108 Posts
On May 02 2010 08:46 mahnini wrote: nothing can make you people happy. first everyone was complaining that units were designed with too narrow a purpose and that blizzard shouldn't assign units specific roles. then when people figured out that blizzard just tried to design cool units and let the player figure out where they fit in people still find ways to complain about it. not every unit in the game will see regular use that's just the way it is. the statement that archons with splash damage overlap with colossi and psi storm too much is just ridiculous though. I mean colossi are the exact same role as reavers in BW and they didnt overlap at all. They're fundamentally different enough IMO. Not that I really agree much with dno_o though lol. honestly I dont think "we'll make a bunch of cool units and go from there" is too a design philosophy so long as theyre also different enough. Which I think archons w/ splash and colossi are lol | ||
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MoNoNauT
United States74 Posts
To the person that said archons are slow, I don't understand why you'd think that. They move ever-so-slightly faster than speed upgraded zealots, and much faster than non-upgraded 'lots or or roaches. Their attack isn't much slower than the immortals, and against anything but roaches and ultralisks, the Archon deals almost 50% more DPS (!!!). The more I study this unit, the more disappointed I am that it hasn't been used at all, especially when the reason seems to be "dustin browder sux lol" According to SC2Armory, the archon's attack has a splash radius of 1. That's absolutely huge, despite all the complaining that seems to be going on... it's much larger than the thor's AA splash, which dominates mutalisks that are balled up. It also means that any zerglings surrounding the archon will get melted instantly. | ||
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Conris
United States79 Posts
not only are their range decreased, their splash radius is also decrease, their attack speed is also decreased....... 1 zealot + 3 sentries for the price of an archon will do far far far more damage than a single archon, even if mixed into a zeal/sentry army it's true that shields recharge much quicker now, but honestly, i'd rather have the battery back, it would take ages to wait for even 100 shield on the archon. if archons get changed at all in the near future, 1/0/1 would need to be tested out instead of 1/1/0 | ||
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dNo_O
United States233 Posts
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mahnini
United States6862 Posts
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JitnikoVi
Russian Federation396 Posts
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WorkersOfTheWorld
United States619 Posts
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roemy
Germany432 Posts
On May 02 2010 10:32 WorkersOfTheWorld wrote:[...] I don't think we can change their mind that'd be the beginning of the end tbh...i can understand if they dont want to buff a protoss unit as long as the race performs ok...ish...ly... but the archon does not exactly stack with the effects of HTs as it s produced out of them. and even if the archon became a popular unit, there's always the option to increase morph time if the transition from psi storm to archon would hurt the matchups. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
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WorkersOfTheWorld
United States619 Posts
On May 02 2010 10:41 roemy wrote: that'd be the beginning of the end tbh... i can understand if they dont want to buff a protoss unit as long as the race performs ok...ish...ly... but the archon does not exactly stack with the effects of HTs as it s produced out of them. and even if the archon became a popular unit, there's always the option to increase morph time if the transition from psi storm to archon would hurt the matchups. The race performs well according to their stats, and that's what they base most decisions on. If anything, people using archons would cement their position as "fine," as is. Reality, however, is that archons are almost never used, and when they are morphed they either die (close battle), or join the army as a mediocre unit that does little more than take up space. In PvZ, the archon is scary-looking, but an intelligent zerg will know that they have little to fear from the big ball of gas. They are essentially a trash-can where you put two spent templar, and blizzard believes that means it's ok that nobody actually wants the archon, but rather, they want the templar, and for reasons unknown also find themselves compelled to push the morph archon button rather than just let the templar regen or suicide them for a more effective chunk of supply. They offer a semi-immidiate gain (morph time is stupid long) for energy-less templar, but i think that's one of the biggest gripes with HT vs. something like the colossus. They're spent quickly, and unless you have something to feedback (spending storm energy), they're highly un-impressive. They're quickly becoming "that aoe unit for when the enemy has infestors." Which is a wonderfully stupid niche in and of itself. /rant off | ||
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Ideas
United States8108 Posts
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Weasel-
Canada1556 Posts
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mahnini
United States6862 Posts
On May 02 2010 11:02 Ideas wrote: they should at LEAST make the morph time nearly instant then so they can help in the fight after you storm instead of die in the next fight afterward. totally makes sense. you should be able to carpet storm you opponent's army then immediately get a 350hp unit. | ||
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Conris
United States79 Posts
0upgrade on archon does 1shot to targetted zergling 2archons vs 8 roaches (8 food 8 food) well, target fired 1 roach, archons dead. tested shield upgrade as well, yea...200/200 for lvl 1(crossed fingers for pure awesomeness) same effect as +1 armor, end of story. 1 archon couldn't clean up a drone surround fast enough, had to micro through a hole and kite (funny right) and the archon almost died. splash sucks, fine, morph time sucks, fine, but for fuck sake, increase the attack speed, an archon will probably only get off 2 or 3 hits before a small marine ball focuses it down and refill their zippos with it. | ||
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WorkersOfTheWorld
United States619 Posts
On May 02 2010 11:30 Conris wrote: so just did some testing... 0upgrade on archon does 1shot to targetted zergling 2archons vs 8 roaches (8 food 8 food) well, target fired 1 roach, archons dead. tested shield upgrade as well, yea...200/200 for lvl 1(crossed fingers for pure awesomeness) same effect as +1 armor, end of story. 1 archon couldn't clean up a drone surround fast enough, had to micro through a hole and kite (funny right) and the archon almost died. splash sucks, fine, morph time sucks, fine, but for fuck sake, increase the attack speed, an archon will probably only get off 2 or 3 hits before a small marine ball focuses it down and refill their zippos with it. Yea, it's quite depressing. Thanks for the laughs at the end though, lol. | ||
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Drayne
Canada239 Posts
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