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go4it
Croatia91 Posts
On April 30 2010 23:28 Dr_Strange wrote: HT are not very good vs marauders. They have too much hp. Also, your lots will be in the storms. True but so far it worked best for me. Prolly not the best solution but worked.. | ||
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Cyrus_00
28 Posts
First harras followed by marauder. Ive gone with void rays in this last game and they just got munched up cos he had a few marines any anyway, he has so many marauders vs my zealot void ray army. Is there no straight forward way of countering such a devastating TvP BO? | ||
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Opti
United States155 Posts
So if you go Gate Core Robo Gate, and push with a few zealots + sentries and 3-4 immortals EARLY (before they have ghosts) you will decimate them. If they get 1 or 2 ghosts out you can forget it, the emp will win, and this is why so many toss are going for 2 warpgate + stargate to pump void rays. Sure, your gateway units will be cannon fodder and just die probably, but if you keep him from scouting your stargate its pretty gg. | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
Immortals have 100 shields. With hardened shields they take 10 damage from marauders. So (100 / 10) = 10 marauder hits to reduce shields to 0. Immortals have 200 health. 10 marauder shots deals 10 * (20 - 1) = 190 damage. So 11 marauder hits will kill an immortal with no shields. So 11 marauders kill an immortal in 2 volleys. edit: whoops forgot about armor. | ||
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threehundred
Canada911 Posts
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Luddite
United States2315 Posts
On May 01 2010 10:03 BlasiuS wrote: Just as a clarification, 11 marauders is critical mass to kill immortals. Immortals have 100 shields. With hardened shields they take 10 damage from marauders. So (100 / 10) = 10 marauder hits to reduce shields to 0. Immortals have 200 health. 10 marauder shots deals 10 * (20 - 1) = 190 damage. So 11 marauder hits will kill an immortal with no shields. So 11 marauders kill an immortal in 2 volleys. edit: whoops forgot about armor. you realize that 11 marauders costs the same as 3 or 4 immortals, right? (3 in gas cost, 4 in mineral cost) | ||
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fatduck
United States148 Posts
On May 01 2010 13:34 Luddite wrote: you realize that 11 marauders costs the same as 3 or 4 immortals, right? (3 in gas cost, 4 in mineral cost) Without stim, the fight goes like this: 11 marauders vs 4 immortals 10 vs 3 9 vs 3 8 vs 2 7 vs 1 7 vs 0 With stim, the fight goes like this: 11 vs 4 10 vs 2 9 vs 1 9 vs 0 That's assuming no micro (which marauders have the advantage in, with +1 range, more speed, and concussive shot). (edit: I'm not gonna redo the calculations but it should be obvious that even with guardian shield up the marauders are still way ahead) | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On May 01 2010 13:34 Luddite wrote: you realize that 11 marauders costs the same as 3 or 4 immortals, right? (3 in gas cost, 4 in mineral cost) not sure what your point is here, but yes, the costs are similar. | ||
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mOnion
United States5657 Posts
On May 01 2010 11:09 threehundred wrote: out macro them thanks for the answer to the "how to win in general" question but i'm pretty sure the OP was saying something about marauders... basically what everyones been saying. Voidrays are great, immortals are great, chargelots are great. Try em all and see what you like. On May 01 2010 14:20 fatduck wrote: Without stim, the fight goes like this: 11 marauders vs 4 immortals 10 vs 3 9 vs 3 8 vs 2 7 vs 1 7 vs 0 With stim, the fight goes like this: 11 vs 4 10 vs 2 9 vs 1 9 vs 0 That's assuming no micro (which marauders have the advantage in, with +1 range, more speed, and concussive shot). (edit: I'm not gonna redo the calculations but it should be obvious that even with guardian shield up the marauders are still way ahead) GOD i hate posts like this. are you kidding me? I dont know why you people do these terrible comparisons and calculations. You will NEVER find a toss going pure immortal. Immortals are so good because they work together with your army so well. NonY talked about this before. What makes a unit powerful is how it works with the rest of your army. marauders can't effectively focus fire immortals because immortals go in the back. if you get too close, zealots will be all up in your grill, so he'll have no immortals, but you'll have no army. | ||
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keV.
United States3214 Posts
On April 30 2010 23:21 go4it wrote: I also watched this. I expect they will nerf void rays soon when Terran players start to vine about it. This build is very strong if not OP atm. Only if they nerfed it in the way they nerfed marauders (aka, not at all). I don't mind them toning down void rays, but its also the only viable counter to lots of early marauder pressure. The new concussive shell upgrade might as well not exist. 60 seconds 50/50. Give me a break. This build isn't overpowered at all, if the Terran player goes marine heavy instead then the one void ray isn't going to do jack. Its only "OP" (or what I like to call a "counter") when T goes 3 rax tech labs only making marauders. The void ray might be too strong, but it isn't because it counters marauders so well. | ||
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keV.
United States3214 Posts
On April 30 2010 23:28 Dr_Strange wrote: HT are not very good vs marauders. They have too much hp. Also, your lots will be in the storms. Storm is great against marauders, and the bio ball in general. I have no idea why anyone would say otherwise. The argument "Because they have too much hp" makes no sense. As for the lots dying, well that is up to the player to curb as best as he can. | ||
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mOnion
United States5657 Posts
On April 30 2010 23:21 go4it wrote: I also watched this. I expect they will nerf void rays soon when Terran players start to vine about it. This build is very strong if not OP atm. how is the build OP if it counters a player who is too stubborn to account for Air Units? Terran players shouldn't be allowed to not make anti air and get away with it. Void Rays make sure of this. On May 01 2010 16:51 keV. wrote: Storm is great against marauders, and the bio ball in general. I have no idea why anyone would say otherwise. The argument "Because they have too much hp" makes no sense. As for the lots dying, well that is up to the player to curb as best as he can. storm is the same as banelings. tears through the marines leaving just the marauders. against pure marauder it is just terrible. marauders with medivacs can eat through soooo much storm its unreal. | ||
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keV.
United States3214 Posts
On May 01 2010 16:51 mOnion wrote: how is the build OP if it counters a player who is too stubborn to account for Air Units? Terran players shouldn't be allowed to not make anti air and get away with it. Void Rays make sure of this. storm is the same as banelings. tears through the marines leaving just the marauders. against pure marauder it is just terrible. marauders with medivacs can eat through soooo much storm its unreal. I'm not sure what you mean, you have feedback to deal with medivacs and your chargelots are going to have a much easier time killing damaged marauders. No, storm doesn't one shot marauders. I don't see how that makes it bad. I don't feel that templar tech is any weaker then robo tech vs terran. | ||
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mOnion
United States5657 Posts
On May 01 2010 16:56 keV. wrote: I'm not sure what you mean, you have feedback to deal with medivacs and your chargelots are going to have a much easier time killing damaged marauders. No, storm doesn't one shot marauders. I don't see how that makes it bad. I don't feel that templar tech is any weaker then robo tech vs terran. hm, differing styles I guess. I'm suppose they could both work, storm just seems more difficult to me | ||
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xnub
Canada610 Posts
But ya really good FF just rapes pure marauders like no other | ||
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faction123
Belgium949 Posts
I much prefer 4 gate (if my opponents 1 basing) with a healthy mix of zeal/sentry with a few stalkers. | ||
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Rebornx3
Canada200 Posts
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JSH
United States4109 Posts
On May 01 2010 17:15 Rebornx3 wrote: Try getting Stalkers with Blink against pure marauders... gl with that (especially if they have stim pack and concussion shell upgrade) I don't see the problem if they go pure marauder. Build some air to ground units (ie void ray like everyone said) but seriously just Force Field the army off and void ray to kill them if the opponent was stupid enough to go purely marauders I mean mix in some marines there dude. Marauders are strong but seriously | ||
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ProoM
Lithuania1741 Posts
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fatduck
United States148 Posts
On May 01 2010 16:45 mOnion wrote: thanks for the answer to the "how to win in general" question but i'm pretty sure the OP was saying something about marauders... basically what everyones been saying. Voidrays are great, immortals are great, chargelots are great. Try em all and see what you like. GOD i hate posts like this. are you kidding me? I dont know why you people do these terrible comparisons and calculations. You will NEVER find a toss going pure immortal. Immortals are so good because they work together with your army so well. NonY talked about this before. What makes a unit powerful is how it works with the rest of your army. marauders can't effectively focus fire immortals because immortals go in the back. if you get too close, zealots will be all up in your grill, so he'll have no immortals, but you'll have no army. You're undoubtedly a much better player than me, so I respect your opinion, but I obviously wasn't trying to suggest that a typical engagement is straight marauders vs immortals. That's ridiculous. Except in tight terrain where you can force field trap, I think you're pretty much wrong - marauders have longer range than immortals, the same speed as zealots, and will have concussive shot by now. Charging his marauders in past zealots to focus fire your immortals would be pretty retarded. I was just trying to point out that, despite what seems to be "common knowledge", having 3-4 immortals in your army doesn't auto-counter marauders, especially for cost. edit: I should clarify that since we're talking about fast robo vs all-in marauders, chargelots are probably not an option | ||
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