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[D] Poorkid's Proxy Tumors - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Paladia
Profile Joined August 2003
802 Posts
April 17 2010 12:46 GMT
#21
You have 9 Megabytes worth of pictures but not a replay of 100kb?
I can no longer rest under the tree of wisdom, since you have axed down the roots feeding it.
P00RKID
Profile Joined December 2009
United States424 Posts
April 17 2010 12:58 GMT
#22
On April 17 2010 21:46 Paladia wrote:
You have 9 Megabytes worth of pictures but not a replay of 100kb?


I take it you want smaller pictures...

When I get a replay of it actually working sure. But I'm still experimenting with it to see when to do it and weather or not to invest in transferring drones to make spines.

I could post the one that I took the pictures from, although it was mostly a test run and neither me or the other guy are exactly pros. (I'm 1550ish gold)

I might have some replays of it posted in a few days If I get time to get more games in.
"Does your butt hurt? 'cause you fell from heaven once the cast was over?" Artosis
Paladia
Profile Joined August 2003
802 Posts
April 17 2010 13:12 GMT
#23
On April 17 2010 21:58 P00RKID wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2010 21:46 Paladia wrote:
You have 9 Megabytes worth of pictures but not a replay of 100kb?


I take it you want smaller pictures.
Well, this day and age size doesn't matter (in terms of pictures). However, some replays of the strategy would be most welcome.
I can no longer rest under the tree of wisdom, since you have axed down the roots feeding it.
virusak
Profile Joined December 2009
Czech Republic344 Posts
April 17 2010 13:22 GMT
#24
if you say you want to do it before t2, than you will loose so much economy by taking a defenceless queen off of your main...
and if you make a second queen, take its minerals, add the cost of a canceled hatchery and it is also very cost ineffective
Funchucks
Profile Joined June 2007
Canada2113 Posts
April 17 2010 13:39 GMT
#25
How does this work with a spine crawler? Does it die too quickly to be useful?

It seems like starting to make a spine crawler or three right in your opponent's base or natural could be fairly disruptive.

I like this trick with the cancelled hatch and tumor a lot. It seems like a way (albeit a costly one) for a zerg to fortify his choke the way a terran or protoss might. And that's setting aside the cheese possibilities.
I serve my houseguests slices of butter.
Mykill
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada3402 Posts
April 17 2010 13:50 GMT
#26
On April 17 2010 22:39 Funchucks wrote:
How does this work with a spine crawler? Does it die too quickly to be useful?

It seems like starting to make a spine crawler or three right in your opponent's base or natural could be fairly disruptive.

I like this trick with the cancelled hatch and tumor a lot. It seems like a way (albeit a costly one) for a zerg to fortify his choke the way a terran or protoss might. And that's setting aside the cheese possibilities.


instead of cancelling hatch make this a lategame technique.
Sen vs i forget who but he uses nydus worm with overlord creep and hits the natural with spine crawlers.
spine crawling has the potential be the new proxy hatch sunk vs Protoss.
[~~The Impossible Leads To Invention~~] CJ Entusman #52 The problem with internet quotations is that they are hard to verify -Abraham Lincoln c.1863
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
April 17 2010 13:50 GMT
#27
I guess this could work well together with queen/roach aggression as described here.

It's very interesting but quite the investment; sending out a queen early, piling up 300 minerals etc.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
P00RKID
Profile Joined December 2009
United States424 Posts
April 17 2010 14:00 GMT
#28
I got a replay that showcases it a tad. The guy basically beat himself by having a pretty bad build order. He played like he was super afraid of mutas, didn't play aggressive enough. I just took it as a good chance to try out some aggressive tumor placement.

http://screplays.com/replays/p00rkid/1122

Oh yeah, and this game just bumped me up to Plat. 1350ish plat now, yay!

And I can see how sending out a drone with your roach + queen push would be great, as you could proxy cancel a creep tumor at the choke to gain some speed advantage.
"Does your butt hurt? 'cause you fell from heaven once the cast was over?" Artosis
LuDwig-
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Italy1143 Posts
April 17 2010 14:37 GMT
#29
it is interesting to read but absolutely not viable..how you can bring the queen to the enemy's base? it takes always at least a minute ant it is a so long way while you could spam larvas..
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=120015&currentpage=98<--Search the HotBid's Post
guitarizt
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1492 Posts
April 17 2010 14:53 GMT
#30
I like the idea but I think it'd hard to make it useful even as cheese. There's better options I'd rather do like one base roach or 6 pool. This toss was pretty bad and I think you could have done anything and beaten him. Opening forge? Seriously? I think I've seen that maybe once or twice in hundreds of games.
“There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.” - Hemingway
DeCoup
Profile Joined September 2006
Australia1933 Posts
April 17 2010 15:08 GMT
#31
On April 17 2010 23:00 P00RKID wrote:
I got a replay that showcases it a tad. The guy basically beat himself by having a pretty bad build order. He played like he was super afraid of mutas, didn't play aggressive enough. I just took it as a good chance to try out some aggressive tumor placement.

http://screplays.com/replays/p00rkid/1122

Oh yeah, and this game just bumped me up to Plat. 1350ish plat now, yay!

And I can see how sending out a drone with your roach + queen push would be great, as you could proxy cancel a creep tumor at the choke to gain some speed advantage.

Why not host it on one of the hundred SC2 replay websites which don't require a logon?
"Poor guy. I really did not deserve that win. So this is what it's like to play Protoss..." - IdrA
Piousflea
Profile Joined February 2010
United States259 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-17 15:19:46
April 17 2010 15:18 GMT
#32
A drones (50/0), a queen (150/0) plus a hatchery cancel (75/0) is 275 minerals - you might as well not cancel the hatchery. The problem with using this strat to prevent an enemy expansion is that tumors only have 40hp. One comsat scan will allow the enemy to kill off however many tumors you care to spawn. For a protoss, he can just build a cannon nearby if he doesn't have observer tech.

On the other hand, I agree that this could be a decent strategy for a Roach/Queen offense.
Seek, behold, and reveal the truth
onmach
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1241 Posts
April 17 2010 15:20 GMT
#33
Hmm, when you lose your lair do all your overlords lose the ability to spew creep?

It might be useful if you lost your lair and your tech buildings are all sitting there creepless if you use this technique to get a tumor under them without requiring you to spend the full 300 and build time on a new hatch on a base that is mined out, or immediately build a lair at a new base (since you've still got the tech buildings already).
Funchucks
Profile Joined June 2007
Canada2113 Posts
April 17 2010 15:52 GMT
#34
On April 18 2010 00:18 Piousflea wrote:
A drones (50/0), a queen (150/0) plus a hatchery cancel (75/0) is 275 minerals - you might as well not cancel the hatchery.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you get the drone back?

Also, a queen's time is pretty valuable, but you do still have the queen after you've placed the tumor.
I serve my houseguests slices of butter.
GGruss
Profile Joined October 2009
Sweden121 Posts
April 17 2010 17:26 GMT
#35
And the queen can do a great deal of good healing the the spine crawlers if you do this aggressively. I definately see this working to great effect. I want to try and combine a spine crawler-contain (with a healing queen?) and fast-tech to mutas.
morimacil
Profile Joined March 2010
France921 Posts
April 17 2010 17:47 GMT
#36
Im guessing you could use it as cheese against another zerg player.
If you try and make a spine crawler on his creep, it should be fairly obvious, and he will stop that.
But if you make 2 spine crawlers at the back of his base, out of sight, using the hatch cancel thing, and then once the spine crawlers are done, you lift them, and burrow them on his creep. That might work.
2 spine crawlers could do some decent damage, even if they are already at 90% health by the time you burrow them on his creep and start attacking. It could also come fairly early I guess.
And dunno, you could make some spine crawlers at your base too, to encourage him to drone up
MaximumSquid
Profile Joined April 2010
United States62 Posts
April 17 2010 21:16 GMT
#37
morimacil:

I tried a practice game of it just to see and the build times and cost per Spinecrawler do not make it more efficient than just running a 6pool:

Although this is probably the most fun I've ever had while losing a game:
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/2967/screenshot019b.jpg
You Gotta Take Your Squid To The Max!!
P00RKID
Profile Joined December 2009
United States424 Posts
April 17 2010 21:21 GMT
#38
On April 17 2010 23:37 LuDwig- wrote:
it is interesting to read but absolutely not viable..how you can bring the queen to the enemy's base? it takes always at least a minute ant it is a so long way while you could spam larvas..


For one, you don't do it if they are at a far cross spot. Secondly, if you get late gas (and get 2 at the same time) you can have plenty of drones for extra minerals, and you start a 2nd queen as soon as the first queen is done. You won't miss the precious larva injection. Since this build can be weak vs pressure, you might need to make a spine crawler in base, but that's alright. If he scouts your queen moving out, your as good as dead if he sends out a zealot to kill the queen. Of course you can make lings though to move out to help her.

Basically, don't let your queen moving out get scouted!! If he has good intell all over you, it is a good idea to not do it. And since it is a fairly late cheese that doesn't lose you any sort of economy until you actually move out with the queen, it is safe and you can just play your normal game.

This late gas stuff can backfire if the protoss quick techs to air, so it is beneficial to get your 2nd expo and hydra den when lair is up.

On April 17 2010 23:53 guitarizt wrote:
I like the idea but I think it'd hard to make it useful even as cheese. There's better options I'd rather do like one base roach or 6 pool. This toss was pretty bad and I think you could have done anything and beaten him. Opening forge? Seriously? I think I've seen that maybe once or twice in hundreds of games.


Yeah, I know, he opened stupidly. But hey, that's what cheese is for right? For punishment. I had played some games before that where I knew I couldn't use the tumor strat, but when you scout them right across from you and they are doing something like that it opens it up for possibilities. And like I said, I was just trying to get a replay of the process, not necessarily a "good replay".

I never said I had this down to a science. But there are shenanigans to be had from this and I know there are players that can find a use that will benefit them.
"Does your butt hurt? 'cause you fell from heaven once the cast was over?" Artosis
Bubbadub
Profile Joined November 2009
United States156 Posts
April 17 2010 21:39 GMT
#39
I really like what the op is doing. I could see this being useful on a map like scrap station in order to just control your own choke earlier. It would allow the ability to stop hellion harass at the choke instead of having to defend at a larger ramp AND at your natural.
P00RKID
Profile Joined December 2009
United States424 Posts
April 17 2010 21:43 GMT
#40
On April 18 2010 06:39 trypt wrote:
I really like what the op is doing. I could see this being useful on a map like scrap station in order to just control your own choke earlier. It would allow the ability to stop hellion harass at the choke instead of having to defend at a larger ramp AND at your natural.


I literally just had this idea when I was taking a dump. This can be used to defend a choke sooner. You put the creep tumor down, then expand at the nat, putting crawlers down.
"Does your butt hurt? 'cause you fell from heaven once the cast was over?" Artosis
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