EPT[G] Terran- A complete overview - Page 5
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BladeRunner
United States407 Posts
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Snowfield
1289 Posts
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
Not to say it can't be done, but it's a huge hurdle to add something to it, and even if you do it might not be accepted. | ||
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Zoltan
United States656 Posts
On April 30 2010 00:12 BladeRunner wrote: Has there been any consideration for adding this to liquipedia? It's a lot easier to find as a reference, plus changes can be seen and tracked If they would consider this for liquidpedia id be totally honored  If any mods come across this and want it updated / changed to make it fit in liquidpeda please PM me and I'll [Make it So]. Theres still alot that needs to be added to this to make it a full and complete guide- and while I am working on it, i have a full time job, am going back to school this summer, and am running a marathon at the end of march. These things are limiting the time I can put into this (I didnt get to play a single game of sc2 yesterday, so bummed about that), so please be patient with me. Finally; anyone that wishes to contribute to this page- Please do so! It would be especially nice if i could get a progamer or 2 to go over the guide =D | ||
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Zoltan
United States656 Posts
I had a rough day of SC2 yesterday. I started OK- 1-1 vs 2 zerg. Then I took a few hours break, and played a terran, lost a game where I got contained, then lost to 3 zergs in a row. All 3 games were pretty tight, but I just kept making noobie mistakes (missing timings on things like my orbital command, pushing out to soon without scanning etc.) and was getting seriously frustrated. I hadn’t taken 4 losses in a row since the beta came out, and I felt like I was not playing to my potential. I watched the replays of my losses, and took the time to really see how silly the mistakes I was making were, and how I wasn’t following my own guide’s rules. I was doing early reaper harasses on zergs, not pulling enough harvesters to repair, (one game I had thick wall- 2 rax and a eng bay- and still got baneling busted. I haven’t been that BM in a game since I was like 15). So then after checking my replays- I click the search 1v1 again, and am matched up against another Zerg. Game Breakdown: + Show Spoiler + This zerg was pretty good, but it was on my best map vs Zerg, Steppes of War. This is my best map because I have no holes in my build order (im not really vulnerable to any zerg cheese on this map because of the setup). I open with my Pfort FE, and work on some tanks to secure my base defense. My limited early scouting showed he was massing roaches, so I figured he was hard teching as well (turns out I was right). I go for some standard factory play, along with marines and marauders, and have a good feeling about the game. I harass him a little with some hellions (mostly to scout, I lose 6 hellions in trade for 6 drones), and I see A LOT of roaches. I have about 7 siege tanks at that point so I wasn’t worried Right as I’m about to push out while taking my 3rd, he pushes on my nat with broodlords (about 6) and easily 3 dozen roaches (maybe more?). The ensuing battle results in the complete destruction of both of our armies, but during the fight I flew my 3rd command center out to the gold minerals and started harvesting, resulting in us both being on 3 bases, except I had the gold minerals, and a HUGE infrastructure to back it up ( 4 factories a starport with reactor and 5 rax). I Begin pumping thors marines and Vikings and just sending them at him. He is still making roaches and broodlords, and honestly at this point the game is won for me. Our economies in the game were similar, however, as ive stated before, a Zerg player needs to out produce a terran to win. My whole goal of that game was to keep us on equal economic grounds so that in the lategame I could be producing equally to him, knowing that my units out-class his cost for cost. The result was that I needed to go back to my basics and stop trying to cheeze my way to a win that I could get by just macroing a solid game and using superior strategy as opposed to cheeze and pray. Just some advice for anyone else on a loss streak ;D. EDIT: a quick thing to not was after that loss streak my APM went up by 25. my average is about 70-80 and that last game i managed a solid 110. (those are gamespeed APMs not actual apms- actual would be about 140 prolly). Probably because i was more determined- so be determined to win and you will play better :D | ||
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spellshock
United States2 Posts
Thanks for all the great info! | ||
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Zoltan
United States656 Posts
On May 01 2010 00:14 spellshock wrote: Hey Zoltan, can you post a link to the forum topics that discuss how to do the reaper bunker rush you discribed in the vs Protoss section of your guide? I didn't seem to find it using the search function. 1 or 2 replays of this strategy would be great if you could find the time. Thanks for all the great info! i have 4 or 5 replays of this from my own personal collection; ill toss them up after work today (5-6pm EST). I can be a little lazy about this (meatspace ftl), so if they arent up tonight expect them... well if i dont put them up PM me until i do ;D. | ||
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Zoltan
United States656 Posts
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Marl
United States692 Posts
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Vattilega
United States52 Posts
BO 10 supply 11 rax 12 supply to wall off 15 orbital and both gas 100 gas factory (pumping rines and scvs entire time to stop rushes) As soon as factory finshes make two techlabs with it while you make 2 ports Land the ports on the labs and go cloak+banshee @100 gas another banshee pump 4 more and then add other rax with techlab to rsrch stim and shields(harass) Build CC then expo.(harass) If u can send ur rines in to distract them and then snipe nexus with banshees, run ur banshees away and come back in 10-25 secs (uncloak so they spend their apm targeting banshees and not canceling nexus) and snipe nexus AGAIN as its warping in, thats usually gg. From there i usually make BC's in TvT but P are so weak to this the game never gets that far, if the harass works well then by the time you have 8 banshees you can just kill them because they usually repond with stalkers who do 10 dmg with the same rate of fire vs the 24 dmg of your banshees. I've found that a ratio of 2 banshees to 3 stalkers is still in ur favor, all upgrades equal. If they respond with void or phoenixs then out macro them in the air. If they attack before the banshees come out than use ur scvs to repair and fight, dont worry about losing them because in a cpl mins you will still have more workers lol. They wont though because P doesnt get confidence to push until 7:30 and then its too late. Im not sure if there's a glaring weakness here but i do not lose to protoss. I think mainly because so many losers who play T just make marauders so toss is conditioned to def it. ... again this is only top gold so idk how it is in platinum, idk if the toss are smart and go templar instead of colossus or immortal BEFORE they find out what you have in store for them Ive even beaten toss that have known whats going on the entire time(obs first) but cant stop it and toss that get air to defend but still die. I have some replays but im not sure the best way to share them, cant even see how to upload them to sc2rep or if thats even possible. I actually use this build for most matchups because gold T dont build turrets and if they do, i expo, Z dont have overseers in time to save lair. vs Z i expo secretly and make thors out the 1 factory and pump rines form the raxs, since they are crippled and prob making tons of hydra to kill ur banshees (stop at 4 banshees, kill drones/queen/ lair). Banshees have too much life to bring down before they can get out of range of a scan so vs a T who has no turrets, kill scvs, any turrets or CC. have banshees on both side of the base and swap them out as they get low on energy. using only 4 banshees i can usually force the T into bankruptcy because of so many scans and dead scvs then i come in with marines and a thor or 2 after i expo. again i have replays of all matchups Try it out and if you love banshees as much as i do lemme know! | ||
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Marl
United States692 Posts
edit: have done it 3 more times since and have won each! | ||
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Sgt.Fluffy
United States15 Posts
I abandoned my normal M&M + ST strat for this fast banshee one and I think my TvT record has been something like 9-1 since. (the one loss came from someone doing the exact same thing and me fucking up my build order a little because I was drunk and him getting to me like 30 seconds before I got to him. With proper scouting I still would have been able to get 2 vikings out in time for his banshee and still probably would have won.). Top ten Gold if it matters, and I've used it in a couple random platinum league games on my friends account and it still works. Actually I probably would be in Platinum but since patch 9 my bonus pool has been glitching and for some reason, only in 1v1, I never, ever get any bonus pool. Its just always zero, so its hard to move up the ladder. I'm in 6th right now I think. Also its worth noting that I had a loss with this strat on some random account or in a custom or something where the other player did a fast M&M rush and totally viably fucked me up. However, if I had scouted better (I see a pattern here.....hmmm), I probably could have gotten a quick siege tank with siege mode and gotten my banshee out 30secs-1min slower. Another great thing is that no one really does this in TvT anymore because of how badly quick siege tanks trash it. And if opponent goes siege tanks......cloaked banshees GG lol. Could possibly be taken out with a FE for more sweeps, but who goes FE in TvT? Also good missile turret placement can really mess with you, but usually isn't enough to stop the harass, plus you got them to waste lots of money on them, and you haven't even fucked your econ at all, so then you have an advantage anyway. Plus if the harass fails completely, then the banshees still make a great addition to your army anyway. Will upload replays if anyone wants some, but not planning on it right now. Also this IS NOT the 11 starport build if thats what anyone is thinking. Its not really all in at all, but obviously leaves your defenses open. | ||
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Sgt.Fluffy
United States15 Posts
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Sgt.Fluffy
United States15 Posts
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Zoltan
United States656 Posts
On May 01 2010 21:03 Sgt.Fluffy wrote: ^ I just read 2 posts up and someone else pretty much posted basically the same build but is using it against Protoss. Now that I think about it, there really is no reason that this wouldn't work against any race. I guess I've just been using it for TvT because I'm working on M&M&G vs protoss and Hellion/Thor/Marauder against zerg. I guess though that protoss is likely to be going robotics facility against you in which case they can get an observer out which would really mess up your day (although that prolly means colossi in which case you can just use the early starport advantage to get lots of vikings), and zerg could probably just scout you and then banelings+zerglings. If you got it off against zerg though that would be pretty cool because of a very likely total lack of detection at that point in the game (although spore crawlers being able to move might screw you up, but then again you could probably just kite them around). while fast banshee DOES work against all 3 races, its risky against all 3 as well. I'm pretty sure i break it down in the TvT section pretty nicely... if they scout your tech lab on the starport your banshees are basically expensive marauders that have really good pathing :wink: | ||
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No_eL
Chile1438 Posts
hell im having nightmares qith toss OP =( | ||
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pyr0ma5ta
United States458 Posts
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Zoltan
United States656 Posts
(under TvT spoiler in its own section) Probably more later... depends on work load. | ||
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Zoltan
United States656 Posts
Poll: Would you watch a bi-daily Zoltan show? Yes (25) No- I don't have time to watch you. (1) No- I don't want to watch you. (1) No- I don't think you have enough knowledge to help me. (0) 27 total votes Your vote: Would you watch a bi-daily Zoltan show? (Vote): Yes For the show I would pick 3-4 replays (at least one of myself) and go through each one to explain either a new strat or a style of thinking that will help improve everyone's skills. There is already a ton of streams, and shows, about SC2- but i dont think there are any dedicated to a single race. This would be the birth of "The Terran Perspective," and if the community wants it it shall be made. | ||
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skronch
United States2717 Posts
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