EPTOn April 17 2010 21:21 DrSmoke wrote:
Zealot rush?
Zealot rush?
You're fucking stupid?
[H] Holding off Super Fast Reaper? - Page 14
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United States5770 Posts
You're fucking stupid? | ||
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United States5770 Posts
On April 17 2010 20:24 Wilko wrote: Go 11 Gate with 8,5 Nexus-Boost There is only a small eco-loss and you should be able to defend it no | ||
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GoDannY
Germany442 Posts
On April 17 2010 23:32 -orb- wrote: I apologize in advance for being so god damn bad manner to all you dumb fucks in my thread, but holy fucking shit. It's like an endless fucking stream of dumb fucking morons that come into the thread spewing their fucking idiocy all over the place. Read the fucking OP, watch the fucking replay, or get the fuck out I don't give a shit what you have to say. What you've said has been said already and it doesn't fucking work if you had read the thread at all, so please kill yourself for being so god damn stupid. I'm so tired of 90% of the replies to topics these days being from retards that don't even read the OP let alone even a fraction of the rest of the thread. You're not welcome Propably a little too harsh (but we know you like that  ) but I agree that a lot of serious discussions are totally dumped by saying things like:FF are imba, Immortals are imba, play 2 canons they got buffed, ultras are too weak and terran marauder is totally broken... I'm so tired reading suggestions that regard ONE matchup out of THREE per race and will totally fuck up the balance in any way possible... I pray blizzard is making more wise decisions... However back2topic: A mate and I tried it out in 2vs2, worked flawlessly and is almost unstoppable unless the aggressor does totally blunder his units... This needs a fix definately, I kinda like the idea getting that jump a research since, for instance, the "harass" unit DT got time nerfed beyond the sake of a late game and Reaper are still a very very strong building killer. | ||
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ondik
Czech Republic2908 Posts
In both games I built pylon on 9 and scouted with the same probe. I continued with standard build even when I found he's proxying -> chrono boosting nexus, building probes, gateway on 13, then assimilator. First difference is not chrono boosting on 14, but saving it. Right when my gateway finished I started building zealot and chrono boosted. In the first game on Blistering sands my opponent built barracks on 9 and by the time his first reaper came into my base, my zealot was ready. While making cyber core I chrono boost another zealot so I have 2 zealots before he comes with 2nd reaper to my base. Now I don't know if it's mistake, but he tried to kill those two zealots while building marauders. He eventually managed to take those zealots down, but they damaged those reapers a bit and more importantly my stalker popped from gateway right after lots died (there's the important point of saving chrono at 14). Stalker > 2 reapers so he waited for marauder and came to my base, but I had already 2 stalkers and from then it was pretty much gg. Second game was on Steppes of war and I smelled something fishy right when he asked "from" out of nowhere lol. He built rax on 8, so his reaper was in my base 6-8 seconds before my zealot popped, he killed it, but was unable to do any other damage, then he killed the second one and tried to take cybernetics down, but my stalker popped in time and with 3rd reaper coming he rage quit. So yeah, I don't find this rush hard to counter, but maybe it's because I didn't play against someone with jaedong micro who could kill X workers while dodging my zealots. | ||
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United States5770 Posts
On April 17 2010 23:41 ondik wrote: I played my last two games against T who both proxy reaper rushed. Although I'm top ten gold league I know there's huge skill difference between me and some of you high platinum guys, so don't bash me, but this is how i fended it off- In both games I built pylon on 9 and scouted with the same probe. I continued with standard build even when I found he's proxying -> chrono boosting nexus, building probes, gateway on 13, then assimilator. First difference is not chrono boosting on 14, but saving it. Right when my gateway finished I started building zealot and chrono boosted. In the first game on Blistering sands my opponent built barracks on 9 and by the time his first reaper came into my base, my zealot was ready. While making cyber core I chrono boost another zealot so I have 2 zealots before he comes with 2nd reaper to my base. Now I don't know if it's mistake, but he tried to kill those two zealots while building marauders. He eventually managed to take those zealots down, but they damaged those reapers a bit and more importantly my stalker popped from gateway right after lots died (there's the important point of saving chrono at 14). Stalker > 2 reapers so he waited for marauder and came to my base, but I had already 2 stalkers and from then it was pretty much gg. Second game was on Steppes of war and I smelled something fishy right when he asked "from" out of nowhere lol. He built rax on 8, so his reaper was in my base 6-8 seconds before my zealot popped, he killed it, but was unable to do any other damage, then he killed the second one and tried to take cybernetics down, but my stalker popped in time and with 3rd reaper coming he rage quit. So yeah, I don't find this rush hard to counter, but maybe it's because I didn't play against someone with jaedong micro who could kill X workers while dodging my zealots. You didn't watch the replay | ||
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BentoBox
Canada303 Posts
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ondik
Czech Republic2908 Posts
On April 17 2010 23:47 -orb- wrote: You didn't watch the replay On April 17 2010 23:51 BentoBox wrote: Hint: The reaper got in his base at the 3 minute mark. I did watch the replay, that's why I suggest to scout with 9 probe. His reaper got in base at the same time as in my second game, but because I scouted with 9 probe I went zealot first and chrono boosted immediately so my lot was 10 seconds faster than your. I can upload the replay if you are interested, but as I said, I'm only top gold, not platinum, so what do I know. Scouting with 9 probe doesn't damage your economy much and is very good for harassing. edit: if you mean this replay http://www.mediafire.com/?uzatmniw2nw | ||
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-orb-
United States5770 Posts
On April 18 2010 00:02 ondik wrote: I did watch the replay, that's why I suggest to scout with 9 probe. His reaper got in base at the same time as in my second game, but because I scouted with 9 probe I went zealot first and chrono boosted immediately so my lot was 10 seconds faster than your. I can upload the replay if you are interested, but as I said, I'm only top gold, not platinum, so what do I know. Scouting with 9 probe doesn't damage your economy much and is very good for harassing. edit: if you mean this replay http://www.mediafire.com/?uzatmniw2nw If you watched the replay you'd realize I chrono my zealot immediately as well And if you watched the replay you'd realize it's when you get out your stalker that matters, not your zealot | ||
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ondik
Czech Republic2908 Posts
Well I wrote before that getting stalker is key, but giving him 10 extra seconds to kill your probes is imho worse than getting stalkers 10 seconds later. ok you know what, here's my rep: http://www.mediafire.com/?mofigdd2ntz | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
You also assume he is shooting the chasing zealots and not raping your drones who are on gas, which is what a smart player would do. No gas = no ranged units for the toss. Once the 100 min 100 gas reaper upgrade comes out there's no way in hell you can do anything until you get zealot charge (and oh wait that's a T2 building which costs gas and another upgrade with more gas!) No smart reaper harass will allow you to put probes on gas. Now, if the toss gets the assimilator up super early in anticipation of this he still might not have the 50gas in time for the reaper waltzing in and killing gas workers. On top of this you're sacrificing a lot of early mineral gain. It's just a lot of sacrifice the toss player has to make in comparison to a small amount of sacrifice a terran makes for reaper harass. | ||
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United States5770 Posts
On April 18 2010 00:16 ondik wrote: but you built it AFTER cyber core at 3:03, while I built it BEFORE core at 2:54. Well I wrote before that getting stalker is key, but giving him 10 extra seconds to kill your probes is imho worse than getting stalkers 10 seconds later. ok you know what, here's my rep: http://www.mediafire.com/?mofigdd2ntz Your opponent is trash. He proxies way further from your base than he has to and his reaper micro is GOD AWFUL Also you have a much easier time on that map due to the mineral field placement and the lack of cliff behind the minerals that the reapers can go up and down THEN HE SPENDS 13 SECONDS SHOOTING YOUR CYBER CORE INSTEAD OF PROBES FFS Don't post replays pretending like you've figured out how to hold off the rush when you only won because your opponent is mentally retarded please. You're acting like building 2 zealots first won you the game. It didn't. Your opponent's lack of skill or a brain won you the game. God no wonder all you idiots keep replying to the thread like "just build a zealot and you can hold it off ez" Apparently all the gold and below terrans don't know how to right click their reapers to move to the probes instead of attacking buildings so you guys think the rush is easy to hold off. | ||
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ondik
Czech Republic2908 Posts
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Welmu
Finland3295 Posts
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4Servy
Netherlands1542 Posts
-the protoss build in the game was aimed for a econmic optimum with constant probe production, giving how the match up works I dont think its a bad idea to cut 1 probe out for the faster gateway/core. -2th gas was greedy play without intel of the terran base so protoss spend extra on this and especialy in rush/proxy games every single little bit of money counts (this can make up for the probe you cut earlyer). -Pylon the mineralback imo so its a little bit harder for the very first reaper to dance behind the mineral line, that lost you so much money if you carefully rewatch.. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On April 18 2010 00:51 ondik wrote: ye, sure, I forgot you know best and average terran would be able to kill second zealot and all my probes before stalker comes. gl You're a fuckin' idiot. He clearly points out that the replay you posted was useless. NO an avg terran wouldn't be able to do that... a SKILLED terran would be able to rape ALL your probes while leaving your zealots and POSSIBLY a stalker building. I tried to be calm but you're just trash. Guess who orb and other top protoss players face at the top level? SKILLED terrans who know how to micro their reapers to the back of a mineral line and a-move. 13 seconds attacking the cyber core = at minimum 4/5 dead probes with proper micro. God damn you're stupid | ||
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
Honestly I am at sort of a loss of ideas how to deal with this, I mean even when I scout that he is proxying there really ain`t anything I can do unless I am lucky and actually find the rax before it finishes. I guess cutting probes to get both the core and a zeal once the gate finishes could work or start going 7p 9g or something, but this will leave you in a terrible economic shape vs any normal non rush Terran builds and the zeal don`t really stop the reaper from raping probes anyway, sure you will lose fewer, but it will probably even out since you are cutting probes a lot anyway. In conclusion it seems really hard to stop a well performed reaper rush in my eyes at least. | ||
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Glider
United States1353 Posts
Based on that 1st rep, there is no way for toss to do a standard build (which they should) and have stalker out early enough. But this isn't too unbalanced since terran is mining from just 5 scvs for that build. Your first stalk chased away 2 reapers, and while those reapers are gone, you are still way ahead in terms of probe count/income despite the losses, but you didn't immediately use the resources to build another stalker, you instead building one and queued another probe (using boost on your nexus). so when the 3rd reaper joined the other two, you still on one stalker when you could have 2. that's about all i can see for now. You did a good job of fighting first reaper off with some probes and running them as necessary, just need to remember for the first few min terran only has 5 scvs on minerals. So the problem is not getting one on time for the first reaper, it's to stop the 3 reaper group from mass owning your probes. just checked rep again: at 4:20 you can boost and start another stalker if you didn't build 2nd gas (even earlier if you didn't build that 1 probe). that would help you against those 3 reaper that came at 4:55 =/ You won't lose nearly as much probes this way. Also the second you scouted his base, you should be focusing on more stalker, why did you build another gas? It's not his first/2nd reaper that is the problem, you chased those away and still ahead in miners/income (was ahead the whole time). It's that you are still on 1 stalker when he had 3 reapers..when you could've had 2. but ye, that reaper build looks op.. reminiscent of a 5pool. Just to mention that the map in question has really long ground distance. on a regular map or small map, terran can probably send scv out at 6 to 8, have more scvs mining and achieve reaper at a similar rushing timing. Needs re-balance imo. I'm curious to see what would happen if you had 2 stalker out. This is just something you could have done better, I just don't see a way to directly counter the reaper build. | ||
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Wilko
Germany470 Posts
why | ||
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-orb-
United States5770 Posts
no as in you won't be able to defend it and it won't make a difference | ||
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EmeraldSparks
United States1451 Posts
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