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How is it possible to stop this? The replay of it is here:
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=116186
EDIT: This is the Terran rush with 6-10 marines and all of his SCVs. Detailed description follows.
The only way to survive is to build cannons. However, you can never push out to stop them from taking as many expos as they like. Then this happens:
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=116191
Scenario #1
Terran player builds 6-10 marines from 2 barracks or a generator barracks. Then he attacks with 15 or so SCVS and his 10 marines, using the SCVS to fight the protoss units. The only option as protoss is to fight back using your own probes and units. SCVs are much stronger than probes in combat. If you survive your economy will be heavily damage and the terran will have a huge economic advantage even after losing his SCVS with MULEs.
Scenario #2
get cannons. The terran scouts your base. you have no way to deny the scout other than completely walling off the front. (is this viable?). You make 2 cannons and units to block the choke. Terran scout sees cannons and does not attack. Instead he builds CC in his base and fast expos. if you attack he uses his SCVS to kill your army, then comes and stomps your base (as before). Then he goes 5 rax + starport and crushes you because you cant catch up.
The only possible way to win that i can see is forge expand, but then you lose handily to the standard MM push as marauders trash cannons.
This is how the poster Comeback beat the same player that is in the reps i posted. First, the build:
12Gate,
cybernetics core,
Warpgate research
Gate
Gate
When the push came he had 6 zealots and 3 stalkers (approx) against about 20 marines and 12 SCV. He sent about 6 probes to help fight. The battle ended slightly in Protoss favor with about 5 stalkers vs 6-7 marines (in retreat). The T player already had an expo on the way so Comeback kept massing 3 gate zlots and stalkers, broke down the back entrance and won. Trashtalk was for the lols.
So, now lets discuss is this build viable vs other "normal" terran strategies. I dont think it is possible to scout this coming as (if you watch the replay) the T player gets gas and everything at the usual times until he gets the probe out of his base with a marine. then obv it is impossible to get another probe in
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is it the 4 rax rush? if it is. go straight stalkers with 2 canons in ur base. when he attacks just go back to ur base with canons. expand get collosus, obs, etc. sentrys are also very good
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You would get 500x more meaningful replies if you described what happened and showed some attempt at learning on your own, instead of asking "How do I stop this?"
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On March 23 2010 09:26 RoieTRS wrote:
You would get 500x more meaningful replies if you described what happened and showed some attempt at learning on your own, instead of asking "How do I stop this?"
ok its the terran cheese rush that everyone should know but ill add it to OP.
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cannons seem to be the only way to stop this i have found
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can you write what happens? some people (inculding me) are to lazy to download replays without any infos. and usually the OP wrote his own ideas and thoughts. seems like sc2 changed this board too...
edit
there was an other thread with the same discussion, if you scout it at first spot you can defend it easy with 2 gate chrono. if you dont scout it and wanted to play 1 gate robo you are pretty dead.
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1. This isn't the 4 min whatever all-in that's significantly harder to stop
2. There's like 10 different variations of a 2 rax ~6 minute push that'll stomp 5 stalker defense anyway without even being all-in
3. Balanced two-gate Zeal+sentry with decent micro and macro will do fine
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I didn't know what to do with the cheese rush at first, but I learned that it's usually best to wall up your ramp so they can't push. While scouting, be sure to look for gas. If you don't see any gas, better get another gateway and even a forge for a couple of cannons. Then just hold them off from there. If necessary, drag some ofyour probes, but nonetheless you'll succeed with a bit of micro and then win with an econ advantage.
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i haven't seen this cheese in action yet, but do the terrans put their SCV on auto repair and does it mess with the AI of your units?
edit-
Seems to me like the problem is not the strategy, but the scouting and build you used. Also, your micro was pretty bad in your base, you basically jammed all your probes so that the marines could rape them easily.
and the 2nd game, where you made canons and shit, same thing. You just over-committed to him doing it (even though he lied, you should ignore talking and scout etc). Like, can't you open with 1 gate, seems like you got the 2nd one too soon. Also, do you have to open with stalkers? Seems like they aren't very good vs anything early of terran anyways. Is it possible to have a collosus/storm/DT by the time he does it? At the very least an obs?
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i did it 20times and never lost (as T)
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If the terran does not fuck up his micro/the build you're dead without cannons, when you go cannons he expoes and is ahead a ton.
If the terran is at all competent you won't stand a chance, expect there to be some kind of nerfing of marine build time or something in the future as the build currently gives terrans free wins on short distance maps and even on big maps its very unfair.
This coming from a T player btw.
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i thought there was a thread already but yes in this thread the OP is much clearer.
its impossible to stop if a good terran does it without cannons, and as a P i make a forge after my gateway every single time. Unless i see terran not add on his barracks or go fac but thats very rare.
in the other thread lorelei played some tler a bunch of matches pvt to test but won most of the games cause imo his micro was far superior and the terran didnt know how execute the rush properly. he sent ALL his scvs each time and keep his scvs right infront of his marines lol 
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i do this all the time vs protoss hahah :D
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As a protoss player in top10 plat, I find this used against me alot, only way for me to stop this is to scout the terran ALOT (but the terran doesnt even need to do as much scouting as me).
Furthurmore, if I do find out he is SCV rushing me with 6 marines (usually by checking if he has 2 early barracks and no SCV on gas), I have to IMMEDIATELY get a forge up and build 2 cannons at my choke or its gg. However, if I do forge up, the terran can fast expo right away (2cannons+forge = 450minerals), giving him a huge econ adv.
Overall, I think blizzard needs to fix this, this strategy allows terran almost a free win against 90% of protoss players on small maps if executed correctly. I would think maybe lowering the SCV
s HP to 50, or lowering the SCV damage to 3 would help a little.
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Here
http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/298
Mind you this only works if you know that they are going to do the cheese...
I played this guy in a ladder match and he did the cheese and won. I asked him for a re and I just knew for some reason that he was going to do it again. So this is how I stopped it.
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Thanks Comeback, thats the exact same guy that did it to me!
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On March 24 2010 00:42 RexFTW wrote:
Thanks Comeback, thats the exact same guy that did it to me!
Ya further talking to him after game 2 he told me "I always do this". So I'm glad I assumed the cheese on game 2. 3 gate worked nicely, especially after he tried to expand. Gave me a big advantage
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On March 24 2010 01:01 TheComeback wrote:
Ya further talking to him after game 2 he told me "I always do this". So I'm glad I assumed the cheese on game 2. 3 gate worked nicely, especially after he tried to expand. Gave me a big advantage
Do you think this build is viable against "standard" terran plays of MM+Ghost or fast banshee?
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On March 24 2010 02:02 RexFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2010 01:01 TheComeback wrote:
Ya further talking to him after game 2 he told me "I always do this". So I'm glad I assumed the cheese on game 2. 3 gate worked nicely, especially after he tried to expand. Gave me a big advantage Do you think this build is viable against "standard" terran plays of MM+Ghost or fast banshee?
Sure, if the terran goes for a FE, a timing push would definatly put him back... I would probably go 2gate with a robo instead tho, so u can get immortal then continue tech to Collosus.
After you do your initial timing attack you need to expand (especially if you set his econ behind even further)
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I'm surprised no one mentioned a fast sentry to wall off your choke to give you more time. To me that would be significant enough to give you the unit advantage + cutting some of his forces off to kill some of his units.
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EPT
