EPTAwesome.
[G] Nydus Mining - Page 2
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SturmAddict
Malaysia176 Posts
Awesome. | ||
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MamiyaOtaru
United States1687 Posts
It should be possible in SC1 too tho, right? with a nydus canal.. Or does the canal take away the mineral from the drone in SC1? I dont remember. except you can't have a nydus canal without creep, which generally implies hatchery  If you already have a hatch there.. | ||
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
On March 14 2010 08:13 love1another wrote: You remember how you have to go back to your base for macro every 10 seconds in SC:BW? Why can't you, instead, just press 4 hotkeys? I'm not saying you can't I'm saying it's a trade-off. | ||
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RisingTide
Australia769 Posts
- A mining operation can be up in 20s rather than 100s for a hatch - Often you'll be getting a nydus at a faraway expansion anyway, so you save 300m - Can be placed behind the mineral line, so it may be harder for your opponent to spot (creep may give-away though) - You don't need to deal with destructible rocks on high-yield expansions - It's much easier to get a nydus worm to an island/blocked expo than it is to get a drone - Drones are able to get out of dodge if attacked Drawbacks - Requires extensive macro (but, as someone said, probably less than worker macro in scbw) - Much less durable than a hatchery - No larva from a hatchery (although you could build an extra in your main) | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
people are also forgetting that if you need to defend one of these "Nydus-expos", there is a worm already there, you can simply move your whole army through it. I predict eventual abuse and patching, even though this style of play will be very tough to get used to. What I am imagining is a central hatchery cluster (base and nat) supporting several (3-4) nydus expansions. A large army is waiting at the central hub to deploy instantly to any expansion. 1. It would be nearly impossible to break any of these expos due to the response time. With decent OV placement zerg should know far in advance where the enemy is targeting. 2. Drones would be nearly impossible to kill or harass due to being able to escape into the network instantly. 3. If an expansion WAS taken down, it can be rebuilt or replaced in 20 seconds for nearly nothing. APM I think this setup if definitely possible for any high apm player due to the fact that this setup effectively removes most of the army positioning and movement and simply replaces it with nydus macro, I dont actually think overall apm required for this would be higher. All you have to do is mash nydus hotkeys, keep alert, and send 200 hydralisks into the network when threatened -The only thing that could kill/limit this strat is if nydus mining efficiency turn out to be very low- | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
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RisingTide
Australia769 Posts
On March 14 2010 10:05 sob3k wrote: What I am imagining is a central hatchery cluster (base and nat) supporting several (3-4) nydus expansions. A large army is waiting at the central hub to deploy instantly to any expansion. Unfortunately due to the nature of the nydus network being global you can only really have one nydus expo, unless you want to try manually exiting drones, but that would just be silly. Still, this has a lot of potential with an island or high yield expo. | ||
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Tsagacity
United States2124 Posts
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On March 14 2010 10:22 RisingTide wrote: Unfortunately due to the nature of the nydus network being global you can only really have one nydus expo, unless you want to try manually exiting drones, but that would just be silly. Still, this has a lot of potential with an island or high yield expo. just got back from testing, you can have any number of nydus expos based on a single network. SETUP 1. make network touching main hatch 2. make as many worms at expos as you want 3. set up queues to-and-from-minerals and network-to-hatch 4. load the network with all your drones 5. hotkey the worm "heads" to 1 6. hotkey network to 2 HOW TO MACRO 1. press: 1d -drones will come out of all your "heads" at the same rate, splitting them evenly between expos automatically. Then they return to the "heads" due to the queue. 2. press: 2d -the network will unload all drones, returning the cash to your main hatchery. 3. REPEAT Macroing basically consists of hitting 1d.....wait......2d....wait.....repeat THIS IS REALLLLY EASY! EDIT: I forgot about MBS...now its even easier. | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On March 14 2010 10:16 MorroW wrote: i think whats next is to test how fast 16drones with hatchery expansion mines in relative to 16drone nydus expansion. i wonder how much slower it mines. if anyone could figure this out (if anyone its some guy from tl xD) i think that would be very informative ok I tested this, I wasnt being very accurate at all but this is how it went for me, should still be interesting for rough estimations: after 5 minutes I got 900 mins, excluding the costs of the nydus(with 16 drones) I could have been a bit faster unloading drones but I dont think anyone busy with a real late game would be able to do so. doing a normal hatch it took me 4 minutes to get those 900 mins, including the cost (and drone sending + building time)of the hatchery. I did however start mining with 16 drones the second the hatchery was done, which is prolly never gonna happen in a real game. | ||
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Simple
United States801 Posts
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BladeRunner
United States407 Posts
On March 14 2010 11:43 7mk wrote: ok I tested this, I wasnt being very accurate at all but this is how it went for me, should still be interesting for rough estimations: after 5 minutes I got 900 mins, excluding the costs of the nydus(with 16 drones) I could have been a bit faster unloading drones but I dont think anyone busy with a real late game would be able to do so. doing a normal hatch it took me 4 minutes to get those 900 mins, including the cost of the hatchery. I did however start mining with 16 drones the second the hatchery was done, which is prolly never gonna happen in a real game. ..so, it's not all that great by itself but I could still see the use.. actually I've pondered the usefulness of using nydus to send your drone to your expansion to build the hatch.. in the meantime you could be mining like this (particularly useful on gold mins) but the added benefit is once the hatch is done you already have a nydus entrance for quick defense (the assumption being this is a far away expansion) | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On March 14 2010 11:49 BladeRunner wrote: ..so, it's not all that great by itself but I could still see the use.. actually I've pondered the usefulness of using nydus to send your drone to your expansion to build the hatch.. in the meantime you could be mining like this (particularly useful on gold mins) but the added benefit is once the hatch is done you already have a nydus entrance for quick defense (the assumption being this is a far away expansion) yeah I thought about that too. another advantage would be that you could immediately start mining with as many drones as you want to. | ||
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diggurd
Norway346 Posts
On March 14 2010 08:57 MamiyaOtaru wrote: from the dupe thread (closed) except you can't have a nydus canal without creep, which generally implies hatchery If you already have a hatch there.. what if a hatchery died, but you managed to hide a drone - run back and build a nydus. like say on an island xp. it could be done, but its not as easy as it is in sc2. i think this is going to be used alot for so many, many reasons. :D wonder if blizzard thought of that. | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On March 13 2010 19:17 HDstarcraft wrote: Idea originally from gandr13189 aka Mike Litoris Did anybody else catch this? | ||
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love1another
United States1844 Posts
On March 14 2010 08:57 MamiyaOtaru wrote: from the dupe thread (closed) except you can't have a nydus canal without creep, which generally implies hatchery If you already have a hatch there.. False. You can worm anywhere you have sight. As of the latest patch. And regardless, overlords can drop creep, so the distinction between sight/creep is in most cases trivial. | ||
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jtype
England2167 Posts
edit- also worth noting as the trick doesn't have to be used constantly, just long enough for a hatchery to complete, or whatever, meaning that you could send whatever extra drones you have to mine efficiently, without over-saturating your main/mining base. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
16 drones, 8 blue crystals RESULT: -5 Minutes of Nydus Mining: 1275min -5 Minutes Normal Mining: 4025min Normal mining is over 315% better. This strat may be dead. well...its better than distance mining...maybe | ||
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Zeke50100
United States2220 Posts
Someone with incredible APM go try this. You basically have to hit the hotkeys as often as possible to ensure maximum mining. We can't get accurate pro-level efficiency of this without...well, taking a pro-level player (or pro-esque APM player) | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
On March 14 2010 12:25 sob3k wrote: Ok, I tested myself... 16 drones, 8 blue crystals RESULT: -5 Minutes of Nydus Mining: 1275min -5 Minutes Normal Mining: 4025min Normal mining is over 315% better. This strat may be dead. well...its better than distance mining...maybe Can you do another test for me? (I don't have a beta, I would test this myself if I could) What if you put 3 nydus worms at the same expansion? One of the limiting factors of mining speed is the speed at which drones exit the nyduses, so maybe increasing the number of worms up front (and paying more) would increase output speed. You might have to add worms next to the hatch as well... 2athatch/2atexpo might double the speed? | ||
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