It's basically a Nydus channel NETWORK, is excellent for defence aswell.
And I think they should require creep to be placed like in the first build I played.

thezergk

United States492 Posts

March 09 2010 02:01 GMT

#63

Another option would be to spread out your supply depots all around your base and just keep them down so that he doesn't have any room to place the nydus worm.

Zelniq

United States7166 Posts

March 09 2010 02:04 GMT

#64

if you spot a network with Scan, keep a group of marines in your base. if you feel like you need the alert, use a sensor tower as well

CharlieMurphy

United States22895 Posts

March 09 2010 03:05 GMT

#65

On February 21 2010 22:59 MidKnight wrote:
I don't understand why did they need to remove the requirement to have creep in order to cast Nydus worm..

Overlords can drop creep now anyway, it would make it easier to spot the worms as well as require few extra seconds to lay the creep, making it easier to prepare..
But I guess we have to wait and see

because warp gates are instant once a pylon is up?

nydus cost 100/200 and lair tech

then it cost 100/100 to lay the head.
Then units come out fairly slowly.

on a time scale it would look like this:
o= unit Out
#s = seconds

1oo2oo3oo4oo5oo6oo etc

Floophead_III

United States1832 Posts

March 09 2010 04:04 GMT

#66

Honestly nydus worms are the most broken mechanic that zerg has and I'm surprised people aren't screaming IMBA at the top of their lungs because of it. It's like a recall but you can recall BACK, for FREE.

The problem with the nydus right now is that there is absolutely no downside to it at all. It's completely worthwhile every game unless you need the money to not die, or if you went mass muta. Blizz should at LEAST bring back placing on creep only, so with good base layout you can make it really difficult to do.

I also think that it really forces terran to win early, because once it goes to lategame zerg can defend all their positions with nydus, attack any time terran moves out, and attack anywhere they want.

Basically the only thing with nydus is hope to god he screws it up and loses his army doing it, because you will be behind if you let him get away with them. Your best bet is to counter after a botched attempt. ZvP isn't as bad as ZvT. ZvT is completely imbalanced.

icki.icki

106 Posts

March 09 2010 04:16 GMT

#67

Okay, I play both Z and T in the beta right now so I hope I can help. First, build your supply depots around the perimiter of your base so you have full vision. Second, play with the sound way up. It makes a very distinct noise when used, and you can hear it if you have vision if it. When you hear it, go kill it immediately. Easy easy. If you have a large army and you feel tricky, let half his army out first and THEN kill everything. Good way to set him back.

TvZ is one of my best matchups, I promise it isn't imbalanced, and certainly not from Nydus. Nydus punishes you not paying attention; it's like a slow dropship.

Oh, and if you're really still having problems just build a sensor tower and pay more attention.

ExileStrife

United States170 Posts

March 09 2010 05:34 GMT

#68

You don't have to have vision of it to hear it, surprisingly.

PhallicAgressor

52 Posts

March 09 2010 05:40 GMT

#69

On February 20 2010 07:06 Shiladie wrote:
nydus has to be on creep, as zerg position buildings to take up all available spots a nydus can be put and scout for overlord trying to get vision with your own overlords (chase off with queen)
as other races, just keep some AA units around, the overlord has to come in, drop creep, and then spawn the worm, just keep some AA around your base.

It would be nice if people who haven't played the game didn't post in the SC2 STRATEGY section giving out false info.

coolnoobb

2 Posts

March 09 2010 05:53 GMT

#70

i think blizzard should raise the build time from 10 second to 20 second

icki.icki

106 Posts

March 09 2010 06:45 GMT

#71

Just listen for it. There's practically a warning siren.

ahcho00

United States220 Posts

March 09 2010 12:14 GMT

#72

On February 20 2010 16:12 Zato-1 wrote:

Show nested quote +

No. I don't have the beta, and I can still contribute to discussions- you can see my contributions to this thread for example:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=112755&currentpage=3

As to Nydus worms... it's a complicated topic. Someone mentioned they're like the Zerg recall, and it's not too far from the truth. Move out with your army, and Zerg recalls all over your base; stay in your base, and Zerg expands.

Denying the Zerg vision of your base to prevent him from ever putting Nydus Worms down there isn't really a viable counter. Killing the Nydus Worms in the 10 seconds before they can start unloading units might be viable, though. Looking at the stats of the unit:

200 HP, armor value 1, Armored

the logical choices to kill it quickly at low cost seem to be stimmed Marines or stimmed Marauders. The Nydus Worm really isn't that much tougher than a Zealot, it's immobile, and you have 10 seconds to kill it. Since the Zerg can make multiple Nydus Worms all over your base, you'd need to spread some units all around its perimeter; leaving 6-8 Marines behind to allow your main army to move out sounds like a fair compromise, but it'd be nice to have some gameplay testing to see whether it actually works out or not.

don't misinform. u do not have 10 seconds to kill the nydus... u have like 3-4 MAYBE 5 seconds if u see it coming. it's a fast spawn and it's cheap. i too have trouble dealing with this nydus drop. if i had 10 seconds to kill this, i would not complain.

Koffiegast

Netherlands346 Posts

March 09 2010 14:09 GMT

#73

Nydus are sometimes poor at maps with a small plateau, for example metalopolis (city in the sky).

Imo I find medivacs more OP. See enemies army coming? All aboard and move to the next expansion. And thats cheaper than a head, less fragile, drops units faster and heals them as well!

HalfAmazing

Netherlands402 Posts

March 09 2010 16:57 GMT

#74

Broken mechanic. Needs to be fixed immediately. Requiring creep is a good start.

Kimani

United States24 Posts

March 09 2010 18:51 GMT

#75

So as a T player who gets burned by Nydus drop from time to time, I like what I'm reading in here. Most mains can be covered by 2 sensor towers. I'd say building those two sensor towers, spreading out your supply depots so they have a harder time placing the nydus, and leaving 2-4 reapers in your base ( with speed so they can run to the other side of the base in a hurry? ) would handle it.

I'm going to have to try Zerg out to see for myself how long it takes for them to build, what it sounds like, and what it looks like. Since I'm not used to them I don't know what they look/sound like....

filthi

United States49 Posts

March 09 2010 21:46 GMT

#76

Yeah, definitely educate yourself on what they sound like -- and nitro boosted reapers is a GREAT idea. Four of them is great for a harass at any point in the game, and they'd rip the worm in half almost immediately.

Artrey

Germany270 Posts

March 09 2010 22:13 GMT

#77

Scout properly, hide a few banshees behind his base and as soon as his army enters the network, kill it quickly and you kill his whole army. Just had that happen to me t.t

And maybe the next step will to change your build order in your main to try to leave no free 3x3 grids. ;-)

sLiniss

United States849 Posts

March 09 2010 22:28 GMT

#78

Worms are probably the most annoying thing I've had to deal with since I started playing. Only thing that I can think of that hasn't been said is to listen carefully. Listen to the sounds in-game to react fast enough.

In the end though, nydus is just plain annoying. A hidden nydus can quickly wrap up the game if it is unsuspected.

envee

United States27 Posts

March 10 2010 02:39 GMT

#79

I agree with many people that the nydus exit should either:

1)Require creep: You need the overlord to see anyway right? So just make it spit creep. This way the OL will be more vulnerable and more likely to be seen.

2)Increase exit build time: WTH 10 seconds?! imba!!!! You look away for 2 seconds and look back the nydus is building and your forces are on the other side. By the time you get there your opponents got 30 units raping your mineral line and then units.

maelstorm

Turkey7 Posts

March 10 2010 08:27 GMT

#80

Nydus can be problematic on wide plateus. Terran should have easier time since they can detect enemy with towers and react asap if they are watching map. I guess only thing protoss can do is to pylon/cannon his plateu. 10 seconds can be really devastating, esp if zerg fakes some attack somewhere to get your attention.

I haven't really played zerg much but I guess you can also nydus the cliffs to harass with hydras or roaches.

Keeping a burrowed ling at each base means you can wait till the enemy settles and worm the heck out of him when he thinks he's safe, no need to move army.

Nydus network also has a funny ability to show your units 10 less (or more if you transport some to other place), fooling your enemy into thinking you're defensless.

Anyway, it IS counterable, but rather lame now. NOT TO mention 2v2 capability with a terran or toss pal's ability to reveal map.