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United States24698 Posts
I'm still pretty noob as I learn with terran but one of the only things I've had trouble dealing worth is zerg attacks using a nydus. They can suddenly launch units into your base as long as their overlord has vision (hard to prevent entirely). The one good thing is that there is a short delay before the units are actually dropped into your main, but it's pretty easy to miss, or at least it is right now.
What are some ways of dealing with this? It seems like the moment I go to move out, a nydus worm is launched into my base and I have to run back and hope I can deal with it. Also, is it possible to kill the worm thingy before it launches units?
Here are two replays of me dealing with it... one with me losing to it and another with me winning. I think the only reason why I won was because the opponent was weaker:
http://rapidshare.com/files/353019742/Two_SC2_Replays.zip.html
The one from the earlier time is the loss, and the later one is the win.
To summarize: how do you deal with an opponent who you know is gonna try to nydus in various places around your base whenever you move out?
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nydus has to be on creep, as zerg position buildings to take up all available spots a nydus can be put and scout for overlord trying to get vision with your own overlords (chase off with queen)
as other races, just keep some AA units around, the overlord has to come in, drop creep, and then spawn the worm, just keep some AA around your base.
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United States24698 Posts
Can you damage the nydus worm during the 10 game seconds it builds?
Also, what do you mean the overlord has to drop creep. It doesn't just need vision to start building the worm?
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I play Protoss in SC1, so I'm pretty used to managing a Corsair fleet against Zerg. This translates pretty well into managing a Void Ray fleet, which should serve the purpose of purging the perimeter of Overlords whenever it's idle.
I don't know if the TvZ game flow in SC2 is amenable to a fairly early standing air fleet, but if it is, using that to kill Overlords preemptively is probably the safest counter. I have some more ideas but I don't want to give advice outside of my experience. Good luck with this problem.
EDIT: It has an ability that plops a wad of creep onto the map below it. The ability resolves very quickly so basically once it's over your base, the Zerg can essentially start building the Nydus immediately.
EDIT2: Well damn, no creep required? My bad.
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Nydus doesn't require creep at the moment
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On February 20 2010 07:06 Shiladie wrote:
nydus has to be on creep, as zerg position buildings to take up all available spots a nydus can be put and scout for overlord trying to get vision with your own overlords (chase off with queen)
as other races, just keep some AA units around, the overlord has to come in, drop creep, and then spawn the worm, just keep some AA around your base.
Are you sure they need to be on creep? I haven't played the game myself, but I could swear I saw a PvZ where the Zerg spawned Nydus Worms all over the Protoss base without laying any creep there first.
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Best thing I find is to attack it with all of your scvs and pray. I think a viking sniping ovys around your base is a good strategy too.
It's the roaches I have a harder time with. Atleast you can see and react to a nydus worm, roaches just "burrow" through space/water anything and pop up in your main -_-
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United States24698 Posts
According to pachi the overlord has to go over the spot it wants to drop creep on if it wants to put the nydus worm there... so I'm thinking turrets in the dark far corners of your base might make a good deterrent...
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Calgary25981 Posts
On February 20 2010 07:06 Shiladie wrote:
nydus has to be on creep, as zerg position buildings to take up all available spots a nydus can be put and scout for overlord trying to get vision with your own overlords (chase off with queen)
as other races, just keep some AA units around, the overlord has to come in, drop creep, and then spawn the worm, just keep some AA around your base.
pretty sure they dont! at blizzcon the overseer had an ability "place nydus worm exit"
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Calgary25981 Posts
On February 20 2010 07:53 micronesia wrote:
According to pachi the overlord has to go over the spot it wants to drop creep on if it wants to put the nydus worm there... so I'm thinking turrets in the dark far corners of your base might make a good deterrent...
also at blizzcon the overseer flew over 3 turrets and still had enough time to drop the nydus before it died.
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United States2822 Posts
The Nydus Network is a Lair tech building that costs 100 minerals and 100 gas. It has two abilities - Load/Unload and Place Nydus Exit.
The Nydus Network can load an infinite number of units, although it will only unload 10 at a time so you need to spam the Unload key if you have a large number of units in it.
A Nydus Exit can be placed anywhere you currently have vision of and takes a 3x3 space, the size of most buildings. After 10 game seconds, a Nydus Worm pops out and you can Unload any units you have in the Nydus Network one by one as long as there's space. In addition, the Nydus Worm also spawns a decent amount of creep near it in case you want to do fun stuff like place Creep Tumors or Spine Crawlers. I have not tested whether or not Spine Crawlers can go into a Nydus Network.
Another thing to note is that the Nydus Network IS two ways, and if someone attacks your base after you Nydus Worm them, you can send your units back into the Nydus Worm and have them exit out of your Nydus Network. Very useful.
So no, you do not need an Overseer to place a Nydus Exit - you just need vision provided by any unit, whether it be an Overlord, a Changeling, or a burrowed unit and a 3x3 unobstructed space.
Nydus Exits cost 100 minerals and 100 gas, and a single Nydus Network can produce an unlimited amount of them. The Nydus Exits all share the same storage, so you can load units into a Nydus Worm at one location and exit them at another location as well.
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Ahhh! I can't seem to defeat Nydus drops with T. I can never kill the damn thing, and due to my lack of SC2 experience I'm awful at predicting them. In general, by the time I deal with it I've lost too many workers. It's like they gave Zerg recall, haha.
My fear of nydus worms has brought me to make all my games against Z fairly quick 1-base pushes with marine/maurauder.
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On February 20 2010 07:06 Shiladie wrote:
nydus has to be on creep, as zerg position buildings to take up all available spots a nydus can be put and scout for overlord trying to get vision with your own overlords (chase off with queen)
as other races, just keep some AA units around, the overlord has to come in, drop creep, and then spawn the worm, just keep some AA around your base.
all of this is completely incorrect
you DO NOT need creep to place a nydas exit down. It just costs 100 minerals and 100 gas. you can place it anywhere you currently have vision
yes you can destroy the worm before it spits out anything, it has a 10 second build time before it can unload anything
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On February 20 2010 08:15 scintilliaSD wrote:
The Nydus Network can load an infinite number of units, although it will only unload 10 at a time so you need to spam the Unload key if you have a large number of units in it.
They actually unload 1 unit at a time, at a fairly fast rate (approx. 3-4 units unloaded per second). The Nydus Worm can place a rally point so that units automatically start moving once they pop out. (Yes, the rally point causes your units to automatically attack the first hostile they find.)
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I have to say that I am really enjoying dropping nydus worms into people's bases once I see their army walking off.
1 question in case someone knows: Do the units exit the nydus worm in any particular order? Does the 1st unit in exit first, etc?
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Can those who don't have the beta, or at the very least - don't know what they're talking about, can we have them not spread misinformation? I personally don't have the beta, so I will keep my mouth shut when it comes to strategy, but it's counterproductive when our (incorrect) assumptions are exclaimed all over the place.
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United States2822 Posts
On February 20 2010 13:41 bizold wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2010 08:15 scintilliaSD wrote:
The Nydus Network can load an infinite number of units, although it will only unload 10 at a time so you need to spam the Unload key if you have a large number of units in it.
They actually unload 1 unit at a time, at a fairly fast rate (approx. 3-4 units unloaded per second). The Nydus Worm can place a rally point so that units automatically start moving once they pop out. (Yes, the rally point causes your units to automatically attack the first hostile they find.)
I meant that units will only unload one "page" of 10 units at a time, at least I THINK that's the way it works. I seem to recall having to hit the 'D' key multiple times in order to unload my full Nydus Worm.
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On February 20 2010 15:02 pat965 wrote:
Can those who don't have the beta, or at the very least - don't know what they're talking about, can we have them not spread misinformation? I personally don't have the beta, so I will keep my mouth shut when it comes to strategy, but it's counterproductive when our (incorrect) assumptions are exclaimed all over the place.
No. I don't have the beta, and I can still contribute to discussions- you can see my contributions to this thread for example:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=112755¤tpage=3
As to Nydus worms... it's a complicated topic. Someone mentioned they're like the Zerg recall, and it's not too far from the truth. Move out with your army, and Zerg recalls all over your base; stay in your base, and Zerg expands.
Denying the Zerg vision of your base to prevent him from ever putting Nydus Worms down there isn't really a viable counter. Killing the Nydus Worms in the 10 seconds before they can start unloading units might be viable, though. Looking at the stats of the unit:
200 HP, armor value 1, Armored
the logical choices to kill it quickly at low cost seem to be stimmed Marines or stimmed Marauders. The Nydus Worm really isn't that much tougher than a Zealot, it's immobile, and you have 10 seconds to kill it. Since the Zerg can make multiple Nydus Worms all over your base, you'd need to spread some units all around its perimeter; leaving 6-8 Marines behind to allow your main army to move out sounds like a fair compromise, but it'd be nice to have some gameplay testing to see whether it actually works out or not.
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On February 20 2010 15:04 scintilliaSD wrote:
I meant that units will only unload one "page" of 10 units at a time, at least I THINK that's the way it works. I seem to recall having to hit the 'D' key multiple times in order to unload my full Nydus Worm.
Units that enter the Nydus Network after you initially use the Unload All ability (D key), will not be ordered to unload unless you press the D key again.
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Zurich15345 Posts
On February 20 2010 07:06 Shiladie wrote:
nydus has to be on creep, as zerg position buildings to take up all available spots a nydus can be put and scout for overlord trying to get vision with your own overlords (chase off with queen)
as other races, just keep some AA units around, the overlord has to come in, drop creep, and then spawn the worm, just keep some AA around your base.
Please read the strategy forum guidelines. If you have no idea what you are talking about, don't give advice.
There is no definite defense against nydus drops. As soon as Z has vision they can drop a nydus exit, which finishes in like 5 seconds.
You have a number of options as T:
- React fast. The worm is killed easily, and the units unload rather slowly. Make sure you target the exit and you should reduce damage greatly
- Starport builds to kill overlords. Open with a port and kill off the Overlords hovering around your base with a Viking. From a zerg perspective this is extremely annoying.
- Turrets. Nobody likes to build turrets, but you can at least protect your mineral line against overlords. Note however that this only works in the early midgame, with overlords speed they can just suicide an overlord to get vision.
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EPT
