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[M] (4) AVEX - Invader II![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/LewFNnC.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/T2qYHAEl.png) (click to enlarge) Analyzer:+ Show Spoiler +
Analyzer seems broken, will add when it's fixed.
200x164 Tileset: Protoss Base, Aiur City, Endion Spawn Positions: 1, 5, 7, 11 (CROSS ENABLED) Base Count: 26 Servers: NA, SEA, KR, EU Link to Reddit Discussion #1.Features/Explanation/Whatever:+ Show Spoiler +
This is the 2nd edition of Invader, featuring a heavy number of changes to the current Ladder Edition in order to help Protoss and Terran play be even viable in the current season. This map has hours dumped into it and is currently being discussed for use. There are no promises to this map being used or uploaded to the current ladder pool. But it is a goal.
OLD INVADER POST:
+ Show Spoiler +[M] (4) AVEX - Invader![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tTGsAcJ.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NV6PGH2l.jpg) (click to enlarge) 60+ Show Spoiler +Analyzer:+ Show Spoiler +
Analyzer seems broken, will add when it's fixed.
200x164 Tileset: Protoss Base, Aiur City, Endion Spawn Positions: 1, 5, 7, 11 (CROSS DISABLED) Base Count: 24 Servers: NA, SEA, KR, EU Link to Reddit Discussion.Features/Explanation/Whatever:+ Show Spoiler + I wasn't a big fan of Dash and Terminal, but I liked the change in Natural layout it had. Using that as inspiration, I wanted to make a 4p map with rectangular symmetry and try and blossom the map from there. The first layout wasn't too different from the final map, the only differences being the 6/12 oclock bases, and the addition of the 3/9 bases, which used to be a pathway.
The 6/12 bases were a challenge for me, I went to Rotti, Feardragon, Temp0 and the Map Cave to try and solve the problem. I eventually settled with the suggestion of adding a highground behind the bases' back. This kept the base flow that I wanted, without making it really easy to take those two bases.
Overall I'm quite happy with this map, a favorite of mine up with Cupid. I hope you all enjoy.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Wy39ni2.png)
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
There's some awkwardness with the center of the map since it doesn't hold much strategic value. I'm also concerned about the strength of the high ground third when used as a staging point for aggression.
Looks like a decently interesting map though. Good job.
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On January 02 2016 10:27 Plexa wrote:
There's some awkwardness with the center of the map since it doesn't hold much strategic value. I'm also concerned about the strength of the high ground third when used as a staging point for aggression.
Looks like a decently interesting map though. Good job.
Many of my earlier iterations involved golds towards the center, but with the symmetry of the map it just didn't work out. :/
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That main/nat/3rd looks like fun. I prefer this implementation over Dash's - having the more direct route to the main be the narrow one makes more sense. The main looks a touch small, but there's some room on the side of the nat so I guess it's no huge deal.
I wonder if the rocks + cooling tower is really necessary. I think either on their own would be enough.
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Great Map! You getting better and better.
I agree with Fatam, u should pick what rock block u want.
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I'll probably get rid of the tower. I just liked that you could hit the tower from the highground and ramp to create a choke or re-seal the wall the rocks gave you in the beginning.
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proportions and locations are solid, but some areas have room for improvement without influencing the rest of the map to much.
the nat looks a bit overly tucked in, maybe some changes could be made but not that neccesary, though id still recommend doing so.
the horizontal mid bases could use the same treatment given to the vertical mid bases to split them, though the cente might become to choky, leading to dome minor changes there, or maybe a rework of the center to make it moe interesting, though an interesting center is always hard to pull off.
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On January 04 2016 07:54 Meavis wrote:
proportions and locations are solid, but some areas have room for improvement without influencing the rest of the map to much.
the nat looks a bit overly tucked in, maybe some changes could be made but not that neccesary, though id still recommend doing so.
the horizontal mid bases could use the same treatment given to the vertical mid bases to split them, though the cente might become to choky, leading to dome minor changes there, or maybe a rework of the center to make it moe interesting, though an interesting center is always hard to pull off.
I made the natural tuck in that fashion to combat 13/12, though I guess the bounds of the map (and it being 4p) would be enough to combat it. It also gives it more space since the main is lacking. But if it does need to be pushed forward a bit, I can do that.
What would you propose for center changes?
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Gorgeous aesthetics, would prefer even more of the dead air space on the outside of the map to be eliminated. This is in particular a reaction against the atrocious Blizzard maps this season - I hate how much air space blankets the outside of those maps.
This is only a problem because people don't restrict themselves to smaller maps (which should be the norm!). There shouldn't be this absurd amount of dead airspace (not to mention it makes it so obnoxious for Zerg),
In comparison your map doesn't have much dead airspace at all....would just love to see it reduced even more.
Gorgeous aesthetics, man...just gorgeous.
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On January 04 2016 18:25 Qwyn wrote:
Gorgeous aesthetics, would prefer even more of the dead air space on the outside of the map to be eliminated. This is in particular a reaction against the atrocious Blizzard maps this season - I hate how much air space blankets the outside of those maps.
This is only a problem because people don't restrict themselves to smaller maps (which should be the norm!). There shouldn't be this absurd amount of dead airspace (not to mention it makes it so obnoxious for Zerg),
In comparison your map doesn't have much dead airspace at all....would just love to see it reduced even more.
Gorgeous aesthetics, man...just gorgeous.
If you mean along the edge of the map there's essentially zero deadspace. 
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little airspace ftw
terrible protoss player here who has been brutalized by speedvacs too much in HotS :-P
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On January 04 2016 07:54 Meavis wrote:the nat looks a bit overly tucked in, maybe some changes could be made but not that neccesary, though id still recommend doing so.
The nat does look a bit cramped. I know it's nit-picky, but could you pull the mineral lines back just a bit to give it some extra room? I haven't yet played the map, so like I said, this is a nit-pick if anything.
Otherwise, I like the aesthetic a lot. Have you made any updates since you first posted it? It looks a bit different since I last saw it.
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Nothing has changed since I posted it. If really needed I can push the natural a little over, but I had it close to help with ZvZ, but since the map is on the larger scale I guess it wouldn't matter.
EDIT: I have now changed the center, doubling the watchtower count and moving them closer to the outer bases. I removed the tower at the natural as well as removed the rock ramp at the thirds, replacing them with gold bases. I also added highground cliffs to the other highground thirds.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4MvOwKi.jpg)
Small bug
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This map was included in my submissions to Blizzard. A quick update, I prevented cross spawn, due to the rush distance being fucking huge.
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prevented cross spawn? that's an interesting one that you don't hear too often.
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On January 05 2016 12:29 Fatam wrote:
little airspace ftw
terrible protoss player here who has been brutalized by speedvacs too much in HotS :-P
This is actually a very strongly drop/muta map due to the difficult ground traverse outside the main and 3rd base. It's not really that much about the amount of dead airspace, but about the difference of mobility between air and ground units. You won't ever feasibly cover all the available ground anyway.
I for one welcome a map with a completely flat center, I don't see the pressing need for endless terrain creations to be put there.
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Too early to call gratz on making ladder?
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I dunno man. I just got informed about it and I'm trying to stay in my chair.
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It's a nice map though I fail to see how it is a similar idea to Central Protocol. I could see the middle of the map playing similarly, but the main/natural/third layout looks really different.
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your Country52797 Posts
On February 13 2016 05:08 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
It's a nice map though I fail to see how it is a similar idea to Central Protocol. I could see the middle of the map playing similarly, but the main/natural/third layout looks really different.
The following is a comprehensive list of similarities between this map and Central Protocol.
- 4p map
- reflective
- cool looking bridges
- gold bases in center
It's an OK map, although I think there are plenty of much better maps blizzard should be considering (including some by Avex).
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Holy shit. This map is just asking for air abuse to win games. Literally rushing stargate will get there faster than a proxy close air spawns. wtf
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On February 13 2016 05:11 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2016 05:08 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
It's a nice map though I fail to see how it is a similar idea to Central Protocol. I could see the middle of the map playing similarly, but the main/natural/third layout looks really different. The following is a comprehensive list of similarities between this map and Central Protocol. - 4p map
- reflective
- cool looking bridges
- gold bases in center
It's an OK map, although I think there are plenty of much better maps blizzard should be considering (including some by Avex).
Yeah I was surprised too, I like a lot of avex maps but this wouldn't have been the one amongst them I would have chosen. Nonetheless it's an interesting map and it would be better than a lot of stuff we have so I have no real qualms. and grats if it does make ladder!
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The third is soooo far, i like the design tho.
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I have to say I'm utterfly baffled by Blizzard here. As Templar says it's not actually that much like Central Protocol. Plus, if they're willing to replace their maps with community maps that sort of resemble their own, they really should just have seven community maps. I really don't get what their decision making process could even be.
That said I really like this map and hope it does go through! super hype
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So after staring at it in the editor, I think I figured out what Blizzard was talking about, if anyone from Blizz wants to comment they can feel free to:
Central Protocol's idea was to have a natural nearby the main, but at a sort-of awkward distance to create some difficulty in defense, as well as a path blocked by a rock, leading directly to the main. Further, the third is meant to be more difficult to take and much more forward from the main and natural, rather than in a standard means of expanding.
I feel like when Blizz saw Invader, they saw that instead of having a backdoor rock and ramp into the main, I have a path that splits the third and natural that goes both into the single choke ramp towards the main, as well as the path to the natural. The third is still far away, but in a reasonable position to where it's not ridiculously hard to defend, but difficult enough.
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I agree with Plexa about the center of the map looking a bit awkward and not holding much strategic value. Still a nice map tho ofc :D
GJ and congrats!
Edit: Oh also agreed on the third expo being "the spark" about this map.
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Congrats!
But honestly in my opinion You have done a lot of better maps
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I don't understand why this map is no cross position. I think that cross is the only spawn location that can create nice and normal macrogames on this map. Can't say i'm a fan of the close air distances and a weirdly placed third. The map aesthetics looks great tho.
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On March 13 2016 00:35 deymos wrote:Congrats! But honestly in my opinion You have done a lot of better maps
I agree.
On March 13 2016 02:21 civi wrote:
I don't understand why this map is no cross position. I think that cross is the only spawn location that can create nice and normal macrogames on this map. Can't say i'm a fan of the close air distances and a weirdly placed third. The map aesthetics looks great tho.
Blizzard isn't too interested in really long macro games, and the distances between cross were ridiculously long.
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cross would probably be RIP terran
OT edit: although, I think a map that has different possible spawns for different matchups would be cool in the future, if Blizz or any tourneys would ever allow it.
For example if it was this map, if the matchup was TvZ or TvP then cross would be disabled, but TvT and all the other MUs it could be enabled. There's other maps that could use this to greater effect, I think, but it's easy to use this as an example.
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On March 13 2016 05:28 Fatam wrote:
cross would probably be RIP terran
OT edit: although, I think a map that has different possible spawns for different matchups would be cool in the future, if Blizz or any tourneys would ever allow it.
For example if it was this map, if the matchup was TvZ or TvP then cross would be disabled, but TvT and all the other MUs it could be enabled. There's other maps that could use this to greater effect, I think, but it's easy to use this as an example.
Yeah I really wish we could do a per-matchup spawn setup, but I think that'd be complicated to display.
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I really like the aesthetic of this map, a lot more than central protcol xD
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For those wondering, the differences between the live version and my version:
- The highground above the 3/6/9/12 bases have been blocked off.
- Anti-Fly zones have been added in the same spots, as well as around the map for taller structures.
- Fancy light bridges removed (choke remains the same)
- Curtain/Fog of War blockers around XNTs were removed.
- XNT Towers moved partially north for the southern side.
- Unbuildable Plates partially moved towards the center of the map.
- Most of the bases adjusted, no real major impact, just made more standard.
- Quite a bit of detail removed or adjusted, for visibility or optimization (most changes were outside playable area)
- Blizz fixed my ground trim (thanks <3) at highground bases.
- The recolored rock texture is used as a slightly transaprent path around the map
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The main is way too small, where am I supposed to build 3+ base production as terran?
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On April 01 2016 16:52 graNite wrote:
The main is way too small, where am I supposed to build 3+ base production as terran?
you won't have a 3rd don't worry.
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On April 02 2016 05:43 Avexyli wrote:
Stay tuned.
New version looks sick!
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On April 02 2016 05:10 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2016 16:52 graNite wrote:
The main is way too small, where am I supposed to build 3+ base production as terran? you won't have a 3rd don't worry.
savage
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So can the creators of this map explain to me why cross spawns is disabled on ladder? ._.
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At the time with testing I felt it would have the Ruins of Seras problem (but worse) where it heavily favored Z, which was ~4 months ago now. By the time the submissions were already through I changed my view, but couldn't change the map.
Invader 2 will have cross.
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On April 05 2016 04:12 Avexyli wrote:
VOD is muted.
Oh, no, she was just vigorously highlighting "extreme macro games" in the description. She kept getting all inned on it.
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So, there's two options I have here;
Option 1:
I completely re-did Invader's concept on a blank canvas, solving all the issues and messing with some stuff to make the map more different.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dkgEl0cl.jpg)
+ Show Spoiler +v1: TeamLiquid / Official Release v2: Ladder Release v3: Complete Re-do ![[image loading]](http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/4-06-2016/zXy4Do.gif)
Option 2:
Because Blizzard might be attached to the current map, I opened up the LE and made changes to that, while fixing as many of the problems I could. I also started experimenting with different ideas, like how to change what is considered the "third" as well as problems with vertical spawns.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5yobMUgl.png)
+ Show Spoiler +v1: TeamLiquid / Official Release v2: Ladder Release v3: Post-Ladder Changes: ![[image loading]](http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/4-06-2016/Dot4Cs.gif)
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They're both different enough from the version that's currently on ladder that if you want to try to convince Blizzard to replace the LE version you might as well just pitch the map you think is better.
Also if you want to get any new version of Invader on ladder you should try to convince Blizzard as soon as possible, because the already slim chance of Blizzard updating Invader on ladder will become a 0% chance as major tournaments approach.
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Blizz moves at the pace of a sleepy snail so GL getting them to change anything at this point
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WHAT THE FUCK IT HAS EVEN MORE BASES NOW
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Snovader looks so damn nice
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On April 06 2016 15:58 -NegativeZero- wrote:
WHAT THE FUCK IT HAS EVEN MORE BASES NOW
Hue.
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Invader II released.
List of changes:
- Main Base size increased. Ramp to natural moved slightly forward.
- Natural shifted a bit forward to ease distance between third and natural.
- Natural choke slightly smaller to make up for newly added rocks.
- "Old third" ramp moved back towards main with aforementioned rocks.
- "Old third" mineral line changed to be oriented vertically to help in defense of cross and horizontal spawns.
- "New third" tucked back, separated from vertically symmetrical base with ramps
- Xel'Naga Tower added at the separation of this base to add more interesting dynamics with vertical spawns.
- Rock Tower added at ramps separating the Xel'Naga Tower highground from the "New Third"
- Rock Tower + 4x4 rock added at vertical ramps of "old third."
- 6x6 rocks added to bridges towards the 6/12 o'clock bases.
- "Old Third" added ramp facing center of the map.
- New blue base replaces gold bases towards the center of the map.
- Ramps for 6/12 bases tucked back to make room for these bases.
- Xel'Naga Towers from the north and south centers removed.
- Xel'Naga Tower added in direct center of the map.
- Gold Bases added at the 3/9 o'clock.
- Many/Most of the air blockers from Ladder Edition removed. Tall doodads removed or shortened.
- Lighting changed to be more greenish (brown is pretty depressing to look at everywhere).
- Cross Spawn Enabled.
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Loving the rework of the middle and the rocks look great.
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nice job with the aestehtics
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