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On February 19 2014 03:45 komodowaran wrote:
@DrShell
Dragon (wave 38) is the final one
Anubs: dond build them rexibar is a good enough front line
conjurers( the tanks have ondly 50 live) they are bad unles uped
Tactics: depends on resurses i recomend random builder over standart builder because standart is bad late game
Holy arcs: jep they are cool
Tip: play vs real players
bug report: the angle that gives an shild to nearby units of u is 100% useles with mech builder units because there is a bug that they don't get it
The dragon wave is the final wave, but it is the 37rd wave.
Rexxars are not so good lategame, if you can build Anubis you should build them.
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I believe that mines and magic is easy to understand for beginners, and interesting for the semi-advanced player. For the well-experienced (1850elo+, 300+ games) however, it does not offer as much as fun yet. Most interesting games for me right now are 2v2s inhouses, but it is a bit hard to find and the RNG resources seem to decide the winner in most of these games.
A EU mines of magic player (Alexei) mentioned an interesting idea. It is to mirror the resources, so that both teams have the same resources available. Resources would still be random, but it would make games a lot more fair. It would also give more opportunity for strategy, as if you would see that your missing subdolak, you know that your opponent also misses it, and both of you try to rush mid to get it. Overall I think it would be an improvement to the game and would help against the frustration of rng mines. Especially on higher level play, the resources around base have too much impact as to which team will win the game.
To make it easier for strong players and teams to find good opponents, I would recommend to make a seperate mode. Squadron also has different modes'' 4v4, Team mode and 1v1''. Likewise the mode could be added :'' Team vs Team'' or ''2v2 Premade''. This would allow strong teams to find strong opponent easier, without getting stuck with beginners in their lobby.
PS: Ogres on melee builder are far too underpowered and useless. Give em a buff ! (Also don't like the latest fungal nerve from 6 to 8 food).
PS2: Have played a few squadronTD games to see what the ''reall'' game is like. I should say I like mines and magic a lot more than squadron TD;
1. it looks better,
2. The resources are different, so each game is different. Not one lame build that works in all games. Need to use ur mind to use all resources effective.
3. Mines and magic seems easier to play, I had some serious difficulties trying to understand squadronTD, while I was already decent in mines and magic after 2 games. Keep it up! I think this game has the potential to surpass SquadronTD!
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edit: Apparently it is a bug and I have no right falsely accusing another player.
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I have noticed that to
if you are playing good any u don't leek and u get awards(fire boost and co) your elo can go up at the end of a game by a small amount if ur team lost because it was not because of u
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Hoi Zolden, it would be nice if you add some more time after the last wave tha hev the possibility to chat at least 10-20s. Thx! 
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Hi everyone, i'm Baovebangai - does anybody know me (American sever) ? HAHA i see famous Longterm from PiuPiu clan is here !
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On March 30 2014 18:17 ldiunyh wrote:
Hi everyone, i'm Baovebangai - does anybody know me (American sever) ? HAHA i see famous Longterm from PiuPiu clan is here !
I think i have played vs you over there
im reward 3 there
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Hey hey !! That Longterm ! Famous everywhere
I agree with Erpel, often at wave 37 when u go high res u dont have enough time to all build or send, I would say that 20 more sec wouldnt be bad.
And btw some people cheat by modifying bankfiles (to get higher elo or w/e), is there a way to make it safer ?
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Game needs some changes imo.
I've played quite some games myself now and I've noticed a trend in players not building any towers. (going full eco) I personally think this ruins the game. Early waves can be held easily by your allies if they know how to build towers accordingly, later wave leaks even quartz monster/ diamonster waves are easily thwarted by an well upgraded mine guard. (even if all 4 players on the team leak)
Finally at dragon wave this person going full eco has now established a full robotron+anubis composition. Even if you managed to beat the "eco team" in the middle you cannot kill the nexus and it will be a draw.
I've got at least 2 replays to back this story up. I think mine guards need a nerf / be less upgradeable.
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Yes... this strategy looks very powerfull.
If one or two player in the team have cristal and subdolak they can up the mine guard and protect the central ressource easily.
If you play necro, you have a hight chance to have cristal + subdolak.
I think mine guards need a nerf / be less upgradeable. Yeah. I think you have just to nerf the multi-fire upgrade of the mine guard and the game will be fine.
Idea: No multi fire anymore. With the cristal you can buy, before the wave, a new turbo ability for the mine guard. For exemple, 7 cristal to buy a second turbo, 20 cristal to buy a third turbo, etc. Thus, if you think opponents are preparing a big all in with mass sends, you can buy a new turbo.
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On April 30 2014 01:43 [DVH]Huginn wrote:
Game needs some changes imo.
I've played quite some games myself now and I've noticed a trend in players not building any towers. (going full eco) I personally think this ruins the game. Early waves can be held easily by your allies if they know how to build towers accordingly, later wave leaks even quartz monster/ diamonster waves are easily thwarted by an well upgraded mine guard. (even if all 4 players on the team leak)
Finally at dragon wave this person going full eco has now established a full robotron+anubis composition. Even if you managed to beat the "eco team" in the middle you cannot kill the nexus and it will be a draw.
I've got at least 2 replays to back this story up. I think mine guards need a nerf / be less upgradeable.
Earlyer in this thrend i have posted replays of me doing this and asked if it is a good stratagy i think they might have watched the replays i can tell the full eco stratagy is dependet on if u have gold at ur start if u have no gold at ur start place u shoud not go it if u have one you can go full eco and u wil br able to carry later but if u have 2 or more gold mines at the start u shoud always go full eco since u then can have 7robotrons upped 7anubis upped and somme battle tanks in the last round and that wil just shred dragon (the dps of 7 robotrons upped is out of control but because u have ur 500gold income u can aford to get them if u don't go eco u normaly get max 3 of them
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I agree the mineguard tactic can be too strong. Altho it is not easy to build a huge army end game, I do think mineguard could use a slight nerve, especially end game a maxed mineguard can hold pretty much everything with turbo (i've seen 1-2 mineguards hold vs strong armies including sun idols).
PS: anyone ever had such a big armies? ( all games were played vs real opponents, I took screenshots of my biggest armies)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IM2iakV.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hAVARLZ.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lKPC2Fq.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4ZJDiGW.jpg)
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The point is not getting that big of an army. As long as you can produce an army that can hold dragon and remove most of the enemy tanky units the mine guards do the rest playing at least for a draw. Just look at the picture below (spoiler)
My teams army at their doorstep, after destroying their army.
+ Show Spoiler +https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50597916/Screenshot2014-04-30%2018_25_10.jpg
Mine guards vs that same army:
+ Show Spoiler +https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50597916/Screenshot2014-04-30%2018_27_06.jpg
Battle concludes:
+ Show Spoiler +https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50597916/Screenshot2014-04-30%2018_27_17.jpg
I don't think I need to do the math, but 4 upped sun idols, 1 sun idol, 2 upped rexxar, 1 upped anubis, 14 reapers, 6 ghosts, 2 marauders and 3 Finnair's figid sould (upped graderstuds) are worth way more than upping the mine guard yet the battle seems quite one-sided.
If only a handfull of army remains I think it's fair to draw, but an army this size should just win imo.
Edid: sorry my screenshots didn't pan out the way I'd like to: please copy paste into your browser.
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Keep in mind that reapers do very bad vs mineguard, generally for base kill you need battletanks/sunidols/robotrons. I agree with you that its too strong, but then you are up with 1x army vs x4 mineguard, so its not the best example.
I'll show a better example of why currently mineguard is too strong. This will make it pretty clear that the mineguard is too effective, atleast at endgame it is with turbo:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/twG2UpU.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/on88F13.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/78mpCOa.jpg)
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I agree, reapers aren't the best vs mine guard, but it's the best image I could find in my recent games. And I think it clearly shows the mine guard is OverPowered. Your images are more convincing though. Thanks for the added pics. I hope a slight nerf could be possible in the near future.
I'd also like to mention the randomness of the mines although fun can be near impossible when not given any mana even when reaching over the half of the map. With 0 mana you CAN kill dragon without a problem if you know how to play, but the send income from Lurker, Mule and muta is quite significant, and quite strong as well. Most end game units require mana except robotrons. In my games I notice that once I get 0 mana (which isn't too often) I'm having trouble techswitching, lasering rocks/sends is a pain, when up against heavy senders impossible to hold some waves unless your allies are watching your lane and helping out (which is almost never unless you're in an arranged team). And even with the help of your allies you still have to make a "good" end game composition which when you lack mana + oil or subdolak or crystals is close to impossible. Enemies messing up big time is your saving grace.
I know the last part isn't that big of an issue right now (unless everyone know how to play, which in most of my games isn't the case), but it feels like you're put in a large deficit before the game even starts. Which again imo is a bad thing for any game. I think RNG is fun but is should be slightly less random than is it now, as mentioned in earlier posts: maybe calculation what resources a player doesn't have and adding it to the destructible rocks chance of spawning.
Last part I'd like to touch for now is the ELO and newcommers, in my experience players playing for the first time unwilling to leave are the number one cause of a loss. But this hacks into your ELO like a battle axe through butter. There should be something that determines if the first timer is playing and acting imbecilic or is really trying I.E. leaking all waves+not leaving=almost certain loss therefore only slight ELO loss for the more experienced players. Or holding most waves (usually up until 20-something) then leaking all without expanding a single time. Which also leads to an almost certain loss.
When first timing the experience difference with a player who has played 5 games is just too huge to compare equally. I think players with <10 games on their name should not be taken serious with the initial 1600 ELO given.
Ended up to be quite the story, hope some of my feedback will be used to improve the game or at least think about.
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That is some interesting feedback Huginn, I like to share my opinion on that:
It is true that the randomness of mines is influences the game a lot, although generally games are still quite skill focused I think. Often when you don't have mana, you have oil atleast, so mech is a valid path. You don't need mana for good eco btw, actually lurkers/mutas/mules are a waste of resources for income, and better eco is achieved by sending roaches/helions/laserbots/queens. Usually you would only want to send lurker/muta/void if you are trying to hurt/finish the opponent.
Simple calculation:
8 lurkers (200food+100mana)=+56 income
11 roaches+ 2 queens (198food+100mana)= 71.5 income
Trust me on this (I always have between 200-200 and 350-350 eco on wave 30 or so, depending what style I play).
I have played a lot of inhouse games (all players around 1800+ elo) and I think RNG resources don't affect the game that much, generally the most skilled team wins from what i've seen. We have proposed in the past to mirror the resources of both teams in their base (player 1 have same res as player 5, player 2 same res as player 6 etc.), but zolden didn't like the idea, and maybe he was right in that dunno.
I agree regarding elo and newcomers, if you want to work on your elo I woulden't recommend to play by yourself. Since it is a 4v4 you simply are too dependant on your teammates, I myself usually have one decent teammate, so we can win games even with noobs in team, and still face challenges. This should generally be enough to get a decent elo, by playing mainly x2 premade, I managed to get 2000+ elo on both EU and US. I agree that elo system can use some changes, but i don't see this happening anytime soon.
Feel free to add me ingame:
EU:
[PiuPew]LongTerm charactercode 914
US:
[Mortis]LongTerm charactercode 657
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Hai EveryBoty!
You may have seen me playing at US or randomly at EU servers.
In these days almost everyone is doing eco builds, some are good, some are really sh---y, but they are doing it.
Before people didn't use that tricks since they couldn't get so fast to eco, but with Necro class, you can start after round 6-7 and sell off before 2nd boss. (round 16)
With simple adjustment it might be little differently, like:
-Slow down MG attack rate
-Slow down MG attack rate updates 0.25 secs to 0.1-0.15 secs/ upgrade.
-Make speed reduce update little bit less slowing, since single MG can easily kill 7 upped Robotrons or Sun Idols before they can even shoot to base.
These should do the trick (or could be nice to try out) and it shouldn't effect so much on early waves, of course you might need to use turbo faster ¶=c)
Its pretty clear tho that something needs to be done, to turn the game back on right tracks.
-LittleBunny
(Edited some text, added something more & made it little clearer.)
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Haha  ), who can defeat that Longtearm's Army with other strategy? No one! i'm sure that at the current moment, only Longtearm and few people i know can do that such big army in his screenshot. They are "Richman" "Baovebangai" "ChinesePVP" "Longtearm" and later are Longtearm's friends, and they are playing the same style, same way, same strategy.
I'm "baovebangai", i'm Longtearm's game friend. We mastered this game because of some unbalanced game features, that why we get that big army, big income (about +300 +300), we dont play the normal way that other people do. And now i would say this game is unbalanced: We always choose Necro or Melee (Mostly Necro), choosing other races is very hard to make that eco and army <--- so that is unbalanced race thing. Some strategy secrets are to do the upgraded mine guard, build an very Early Rexxar then sell him at wave 16, or Sell everything at wave 8 if u get an oil mine at start.
To master the game, You need to know and understand some unbalanced sending creeps (which creep is worth sending for income than other?), unbalanced army units (which unit is more powerful but cheaper or easy to get than the other?). I did quite a lot of maths and i know exactly how unbalance they are. I hope the game's creator will create more new strategies and balance the game better . But i'm not sure T_T sorry for my very bad english.
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Hi Baove! =)
On May 04 2014 10:35 ldiunyh wrote: Haha ), who can defeat that Longtearm's Army with other strategy? No one!
Answer is MG.
Yeah, mostly people are choosing Necro because it gives you guarantee subdulak.
Subdulak is the life elixir of end game, i did once ask from Zolden why every endgame units need sub, since back in old days it wasnt so common to get as it's now (might be just because necro class), but all he said was there was some reason, i don't remember.
Anyways as you said, there's a lot to balance, we will see where it goes, atleast great game so far.
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Hi LittleBunny! do u still play the game ?
Yah, we always choose Necro to get sub, we use sub to upgrade mine guard actack speed - get Defense Drone +50 damage Reward - get powerful units such a Anubis or SunIdol or Conjurer.
LittleBunny, i remember when we was playing with each other ) It was February as i remember, those days were so much fun. U were partying with the Piu Piu Clan and i was on my own- trying to carry all the waves and did bulding units so
hard to carry for the team, my brain worked very hard... and we also did chat so fun in the game.
Now i played the mine guard strategy that they call Eco and i did discussing with LongTearm a lot, he is a really hardcore player.
After i researched that Strategy, the game becomes so easy and boring, the game becomes robotic - i play that same strategy for 1000 games and because there are no other good strategies as that strategy. That is a quite perfect strategy which maybe makes the game boring. I m going to quit the game, i will miss that funny time and u guys ).
Ahh What is "MG" the word u said ?
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EPT
