I created these arcade maps for sc2: Heroes of Might and Magic, Sid Meier's Civilization, Rise of Legends, Zed, Glass Castle TD.
7 month ago I decided to create a map that would work based on Squadron TD mechanics. Because, you know, new builders appear in Squad TD not so frequently, also, I wanted to change lots of things to make the game feel different. Also, had builders ideas, and just desired something like the good old Squad TD, but fresh in details.
And finally, the map has reached the publishable stage. I released it at EU server in alpha state for balance testing, and realy need some feedback concerning balance and resource systems. Some features are not implemented, but most of the thing is done and working.
Some details about the map:
- eco system is different, there are 7 different resources, and they randomly spread along the map - you have to build mines on resources, expand to reach more resources - builders have only 3 base towers, but you can research more towers, depending on what resources you possess - you can invest in towers and get income from kills, or in mines, or in sends - battle areas made the way that creeps that you haven't killed will fight your neibhoring player, and the creeps that survived this battle will meet the towers of other part of your team (it's 4v4 as usual) - 4 builders are completed, and also 16 towers are available for research
There are also some thing planned that I'm working on.
But, as I said, I need to balane the map (though, it has some grade of balance yet, that makes the playing enjoyable).
Map's name is "Mines and Magic", it's available on EU server. Come, try it, and maybe leave a review or post here in this thread. I would realy appreciate some feedback from this community.
Great game, fun to play and hope it says up high in the most played area. not to many people seem to be good at it yet, but eventually you might want to make more then 35 rounds lol. also Id like to see a better ranking system at some point, this one with starting at 1600 and going up or down seems a bit confusing... might try something like the one on PvZ, start at D then move up or down from there (doing s-1 s-2... after A+) obviously still some balancing issues to work out, might want to get it its own website or something for forums and info on the game.
Great game! One issue though, it feels a bit too much luckbased, if you have a good starting area you're gonna perform much better, like having gold close to you pays of instantly. Might wanna look into that.
The map has tons of updates, and for now it's not too far from beta stage. It's available on both EU and NA servers.
SolidSMD
Yea, it's luck base, but now I've reduced the randomness of starting locations, so players have guaranteed 3 resources, one of which is they one the race requires mostly.
EatThePath
I'll be glad to know any thpughts, epsecially balance notes about the units we research in const yard.
MrLucky
Elo system is used in professionaa chess to determine players' strength. I decided to use it because it's simple and fair.
If you win vs good players, you gain alot of points, if you win vs suckers, you gain little. Same with loses, you drop just slightly if someone powerful defeated you. Map has team vs team mode, so I'm using tournament kind of Elo calculations.
People may be not too familiar with it, because sc2 ladder doesn't show player's scores, but I'm sure Elo or something similar is used there.
Played this last night, had a good time. The resource system adds a lot of depth which is nice. I'm still trying to figure out how you added extra custom resources though.
Hey Zolden, i guess you have no time for a reply of my pm. But maybe u will have some time to spare in the future.
Some of our feedback:
Elo system is ok, but even if u only play against the waves (enemy team without players) the players are losing elo when they cant beat all waves. That should be removes for training purpose or trying out new builds
In the description should be a scale of difficulty (maybe 1 to 5 stars). I our opinion the races are different to play. Mages for example could have huge problems coming back into game when they make one mistake at the beginning because of the snowball effect in the game. (example: wasting too much gold in after round 1 and then not building a second turret for wave 2)
That's it for now. Hope this game will be the next big thing
Well, it required some tricks to use 7 resources when only 4 supported.
I keep those additional resources as an upgrade level and using requirement to check if a player has enough of it. Also some triggers to add/subtract. Also, some triggers to handle the fact that upgrade level can't be higher than 127. And some triggers to handle fractions of income.
MSTheChosenOne
I'd never gues I have a pm if you wouldnt tell me. Not too familiar with TL forum notifications. Now you'll have the answer.
After the next update, elo won't change in singleplayer anymore.
And builders difficulty is not decided yet since there are lots of balance changes happening still, also I'll add more builders, so there may be a scale sometimes, but not now.
Game is pretty fun, I think you succeeded in doing "Squad TD + more". I like that the randomly generated resources can really change how you start off. Pretty quickly though it seems like you will always go towards the same things. I guess this is not bad, it is expected I suppose.
The "race to the middle" with new construction yards is kind of weird. It just feels odd. I think there should be more incentive to build multiple new construction yards, like a small discount on tower prices for each yard you have. It'd also be great if there were "tier 2" resources that you never start next to that you can only reach by expanding. And while we're on the topic, I think some doodads that show connections between the center and outer areas would be nice, to indicate to players that you can build over the lanes. Like some bridges that go over the lanes from one cliff to the other, that obviously won't interfere in a fight because of their placement but visually show that you can "pass" to the other side with a properly placed yard. To that end, some more intricate texturing around the resource areas would be nice. Some grass with dirt paths, trees and shrubs and whatnot.
One last small thing, I think it's weird that you can only start with 1 melee or 1 archer when playing the "mixed" (newbie) builder. Depending on the sends you get, the archer isn't any better than the melee and there's no way you can guarantee passing the first wave with that builder. Maybe the price of melee should be 30 instead of 35? I don't think this would break anything since they quickly become outclassed as tanks and you really want the upgraded version, so you can add 5 to the price there if you want.
I haven't played enough to comment on balance yet, but the game is pretty fun and I hope to see more refinements.
Still having much fun with this game! however, there are some things i'd like to see: -subdolak feels inferior to both oil and chrystals, it happens enough in games that you only get 1 special resource and that you choose the techtree of the resources that you have. The ranged techtree feels very bad compared to the other 2, it scales bad to lategame and the last unit of this tree (that at least has some dps) requires chrystals as well. -you cannot sell non-basic towers (i had an only metal start and had made a lot of marauders, later i found oil and went mech-tree, the problem was that my butterflies couldn't reach the enemy and friendly tanks because the fat marauders just stood next to each other) => maybe implement some feature like in desert strike that allows you to reposition your units? -cost of multiple construction yards might be too high: it happens that you're a midplayer and you scan ahead to see that your lane has 1 or no resources, now you need to invest in at least 3 constructions yards to get to over the lane before you're able to invest in some new resources. The opportunity cost feels too high until lategame, when you're probably too behind already. Being able to make more construction yards and easier would be a good thing i think.
That's all for now. I'm amazed at how interesting and balanced your game is even in the alpha phase, blizzard should hire you! :D
I have noticed some bugs with resources, it happens that you have for example +9 crystals but only get 8. I noticed this a couple times, where I upgraded mines/farms especially so i would have enough of that resource in 1/2 turns, not sure what causes this. It also happens that there are resources that are impossible to take due to map infrastructure (like a cliff to the right of a mana mine).
A suggestion: some sendings/sendlings are only available at wave X, maybe put a visible timer on those units with the amount of wave remaining on it? thanks
1. more races to choose from. 2. custom builder 3. randomly generated races / units per 2-3 waves aka chaos refined 4. need a vote kick feature like nexus squadron strike. it's not fair for the whole team to suffer from 1 uncooperative noob or asshole. it requires 3 people to vote kick, "-kick 4". if 3 players left, requires 2 to kick. if 2 left, you can't kick.
On December 21 2013 09:15 blackpimple wrote: some suggestions for 2.0. pleaseeee!
just like squardon td
1. more races to choose from. 2. custom builder 3. randomly generated races / units per 2-3 waves aka chaos refined 4. need a vote kick feature like nexus squadron strike. it's not fair for the whole team to suffer from 1 uncooperative noob or asshole. it requires 3 people to vote kick, "-kick 4". if 3 players left, requires 2 to kick. if 2 left, you can't kick.
Please don't ruin this game like Squadron! Custom Builder and all that stuff are terrible. Squadron was good when they just copied from Legion TD for WC3.
On December 21 2013 09:15 blackpimple wrote: some suggestions for 2.0. pleaseeee!
just like squardon td
1. more races to choose from. 2. custom builder 3. randomly generated races / units per 2-3 waves aka chaos refined 4. need a vote kick feature like nexus squadron strike. it's not fair for the whole team to suffer from 1 uncooperative noob or asshole. it requires 3 people to vote kick, "-kick 4". if 3 players left, requires 2 to kick. if 2 left, you can't kick.
Please don't ruin this game like Squadron! Custom Builder and all that stuff are terrible. Squadron was good when they just copied from Legion TD for WC3.
this game is based on std bro. change is good. new options is good. no one cares about legion td. this is sc
I'm not sure how the elo system works but I think it may be bugged. I always gain only 1 elo if I win after the last wave when we have won the battle in the middle but lose more.
Update: I got 6 elo the last game and won after the last wave. But I often earn only 1 point which is pretty weird.
About elo: the higher your rating relatively to opponents, the more you will lose, and the less you will gain on lose/win. Also, the higher your rating is, the smaller gain coefficient.
And I'll check is there's a bug for 1v1 + early leaver.
SolidSMD it happens that you have for example +9 crystals but only get 8
It was an awkward rounding issue, when you had 8.99 instead of 9, and on turn end you recieve 8, while .99 are waiting to be added later. Now it's fixed.
blackpimple 1. more races to choose from. 2. custom builder 3. randomly generated races / units per 2-3 waves aka chaos refined 4. need a vote kick feature like nexus squadron strike. it's not fair for the whole team to suffer from 1 uncooperative noob or asshole. it requires 3 people to vote kick, "-kick 4". if 3 players left, requires 2 to kick. if 2 left, you can't kick.
More races will be added.
Not sure about other points, I'll think about.
I liked the chaos builder in Squad TD, and I'm ok about adding something that would allow mixing towers from different builders, but I don't want to copy, maybe I'll have some new idea about. But first I'd add some more desirable things. DOn't forget, that STD had about 2 years of development before those were added.
MarlieChurphy Why do people release maps on only 1 server?
SEA is deserted since global play KR requires translation (seems they just don't play english language maps)
1 server upload is usualy good for a new map to fix main bugs and polish a little before upping to the second one. Right now the map is available on EU adn US.
Are you familiar with the WC3 map called Angel Arena Allstars? This map was really popular back in the day on WC3, and i would love to see somebody making a SC2 version of this
Nope, never played nor WC3 online neither its funmaps.
And it looks like the only way to see your favorite map/game remade is to do it by yourself. Because you're the only one who would be motivated enough. Other ppl have their own ideas to impement, and if something still hasn't been, it means no one cares enough. I actually started making maps for sc2 when I realized that there is no map I want, and no one seemed to be creating it.
Small bug: All opponents left in the beginning of the game and I wonder how this affect the stats. Everything was unchanged which is ok. (What happens if all enemies leave at later waves because they are about to lose?) But I saw that the bank key "win_seq" was reset to 0. I already got the achievement, but I think other people may have 6 wins and get this bug.
flaske83 Yea, programming skill is required. And it's the only thing that you need. Then you just learn the editor. Takes time, but after all its not that hard. Took me two weeks to learn it enough to start creating my first map, that "Z remake" one. And two more weeks to complete. And maybe 2 more to unbug and balance. And it was a pure fun, the process. So, if you ever get an idea to try, you better give it a chance.
Hey, amazing job, so far I am impressed with this Towerdefense:
2 Points, I'd like to share after playing 150+ games of Mines and Magic:
1: Why can you not sell 'research' units like Rexxar, Conjurer, Berserker etc. or is this on purpose ?
2: Opinion on the Tier upgrade Ghost into Reaper: Right now the Reaper feels incredibly infurior to the Ghost.
Ghosts has snipe ability so they are able to deal huge damage + auto (1shots any minion resulting in quick and easy kills early on) Plus the cloak ability is making them really strong.
Reapers seem to have nothing (does their passive ability mean AOE ? I don't c any) except for a slight increase on dps but less range (8 to 7), meaning the Ghost actually has higher overall dps as it does its Snipe ability and 1 auto before the Reaper even gets to shoot his Shotgun.
Might as well say that the midrange tier units on metal are just a bit weak (I'm talking about the Stalker and Ghost and its upgrades) if u compare them to Rexxar (cheap value tank), the ArchAngel (expensive, but has aura and scales to late game) and the IceQueen (Slightly overpowered but still moderately balanced with its high cost) and the 'Yellow floating pyramid. (Cheap and strong for its cost).
Zolden Where did you start learning what you needed to start creating your own maps? I know my way around a computer, but i dont have any experience with programming
In my opinion the game is getting too easy. Around 0.70 it was a challenge to reach the endwave. Nowadays there is nearly not a single game that ends before that last fight. Is it supposed to be like that to end in the last fight?
Bug report! Had a couple of games now where somebody has started with 10000 of each resource for some reason. Thought the people was cheating somehow, so decided to save the replay and check it out.
flaske83 It's just me being absent-minded. Sometimes I turn lots of resources on for local test purposes, and forget to turn it off before uploading the map
And for the start of mapping, I had a map idea in my mind, and knew what simple functions I need for it, like changing ownership of buildings, changing weapons of units, creating new units, making them trainable in barracks. I've searched tutorials on youtube, found couple useful ones. Then found sc2mapster.com, started asking questions there.
Yanzo Recently added sell functions to all units.
Reapers were buffed (more hp, more dmg). Also, colossus has been buffed a bit. And I'll test other units you mentioned, to see if they need any fixes.
blackpimple That lobby thing is a bit awkward, I don't know how to make players be swappable within teams.
MSTheChosenOne Recent changes may make the game a bit less easy, for example, base will be more vulnerable for earlier waves.
On January 05 2014 22:14 Zolden_ wrote: blackpimple That lobby thing is a bit awkward, I don't know how to make players be swappable within teams.
It's not possible. I don't really need it, but my idea is to create an option on the race selection screen for the prefered postion or something like that.
Is it possible that you disable the ability to build mines till the player did build his first tower ? Because somtimes a noob comes in a game and builds 5 miney and has no money to build a tower then he leek's the first wave --> he has still not enough money to build one
In this Suggestion I'm not quite sure and would therefore like to hear the opinions about it. How about you 2new upgrades One that gives the mining laser 3× range And on that gives the mining laser aditional damage to towers (unit's) Do you think that woud be a good change ?
I woud like to hear your oppinions about my 4 suggestions
EDIT: I got a Pm from a user that suggestion nr3 woud destroy some eco tactics what do you think about that ?
On January 02 2014 06:16 MSTheChosenOne wrote: In my opinion the game is getting too easy. Around 0.70 it was a challenge to reach the endwave. Nowadays there is nearly not a single game that ends before that last fight. Is it supposed to be like that to end in the last fight?
I can't agree with that I Played a total of >hundert games but ondly 13 reached the end
On January 06 2014 18:55 komodowaran wrote: I can't agree with that I Played a total of >hundert games but ondly 13 reached the end
OK maybe it's because i am most of the time in a tag team premade what makes it possible to carry up to 2 other players. If you want we can play together
On January 06 2014 18:55 komodowaran wrote: I can't agree with that I Played a total of >hundert games but ondly 13 reached the end
OK maybe it's because i am most of the time in a tag team premade what makes it possible to carry up to 2 other players. If you want we can play together
Jes but in this case you simply can kill them round 16 Ok it might be that i only reached the end 13times because i never played premade and in case my team was wining we simply killed them by sending Thx for your offer to play togeather we can try that once
First of all, thank you for your work on this map. It is great and already better than Squad TD.
I have around 200 games played and I'm in "mines and magic addicts" club (that means we play as premade team and crush everybody on EU server ^^).
My ideas for further patchs:
Towers: If you need ideas for new towers you can have a look here http://www.legiontd.com/database.php This is the list of all the units in LEGION TD, the map from WC3 that inspired SquadTD. To be honest, Legion TD is far far far better than Squad TD. Some towers could have different choices of upgrades. Minor bugs : Auras like +1 +2 range, +2 armor, fire shield .... dont apply to towers from different tech tree (for instance, berserker cannot have fireshield). I think aura should apply to any towers, it is a reward for players that unlock many techs. The pathfinding of towers is sometimes strange (towers block themselves) Balance: Stalker and collossus are still very weak maybe buff them by giving an aura or some special ability Oil units are really good
Sends: The main problem is with Marines. They do too much domage early game. For instance, it is almost impossible to defend with melee builder vs 2 marines in the "Slimes" level. (I call it "radioactive ravioli level" ^^). And Marines need 3 drills to be killed (should be 2 imo). The repair bot send is quite weak.
Gold and Mines: Randomness of mines makes the game really unique (and addictive) but sometimes bad luck can ruin your game. For instance melee builder without metal (or mana+crystal) or ranged without food or oïl cannot win the game. Maybe you could enable a special upgrade (that costs money) to convert mines. Basic ressource could be switched to another basic ressource (food mana metal), rare to rare (subd, crystal, oïl) and gold could be changed to anything. To refrain people from going full oil (for instance), the conversion rate should be exponential. (maybe something like 20 gold, 40, 80, 160 ...)
Maybe you could make a subdolack tech tree so this ressource is not only used for tier4 towers (conjurer, sun idol ...)
Also I think you should be able to buy and sell ressources. Last games i had 250 gold income, all mines upgraded to max, and I was not able to build anything, because of a lack of ressources (mainly mana). One idea would be to enable more upgrades on mines (mana mines could give +40 income) Finally you could enable to build mines in special fileds around the first construction yard (would become a special construction yard). Of course the cost should be quite high.
Main station: The main station attack misses moving targets I think the defence drone could have a continuous attack like the VoidRay Upgrades needs too much mana Maybe add an upgradable tower with hit points or change the defense drone for a special tower dealing and taking damage
About Komodo suggestions 1: round 16 is easy provided you have a good mix of unit. So this can be corrected by adding new towers or enabeling mine switch. 2: i dont agree, you can have a good start with beginner builder without food 3: why not 4: More range for laser means that you can try to steal kills from opposing team. And i think it is not fair. More damage, why not, but maybe there will be some balance issues
Please excuse my bad English ... I hope i m not being rude ^^!
"Stalker and collossus are still very weak maybe buff them by giving an aura or some special ability" They are strong vs a bigger amount of units but in lategame there is no round with >10unit's where they woud be realy usefull I woud agree with buffing them a bit
"ranged without food or oïl cannot win the game." They can because if you have no food/oil you wil have more other resurses like metal And you can win a game with ondly metal because you can do goast spam I did win a game by ondly building goasts because they are OP (jes i never buildet somthing else my race was magic)
"Round 16 is easy" jes i agree with you round 16 is easy if you can burst them down before they get a sacond rotation of scorpions off But what do you do if there is a lurker a queen and a roach in adition to the scorpions there because your opponents saved up ? Then you have no way to prevent 3 rounds of scorpions then and then it's nearly imposible to hold
"More range for laser means that you can try to steal kills from opposing team. And i think it is not fair." Stealing kils you can do today to but the problem is that you have to ask your selv Is it worth it to use 1 mana for 4 gold i mean the money that creeps give is ondly important early game because lategame your periodic incom is mouch higher (somtimes >500) But hoe about hte idea that you ondly can target towers(and no creeps) with the aditional range More damage, why not, but maybe there will be some balance issues
How about the more damage woud be ondly to enemy towers so you ondly can use it to put aditional presure on
Also I think you should be able to buy and sell ressources. Last games i had 250 gold income, all mines upgraded to max, and I was not able to build anything, because of a lack of ressources (mainly mana). I think buying resourses is not the corect way to go how about this sugestion for a new send Cost:50gold Gives you 1 income of a resource you want (you can simply make a send for each resurse tipe) the unit woud be a medic that heals unit's for X% of max hp/sec
I think 50gold woud be expensive enough that you ondly woud use it for resourses you realy need more of
but they all disappeared and im back to reward 1. im hoping its a glitch just for this game. my laser is still here but dont have the snow, my mine is back to normal, etc. any idea?
1. Find your bank file You should find the bank file on Windows: My Documents / Starcraft II / Accounts / xxxxx / Your Account ID / Banks / 2-S2-1-241693 / Banks.SC2Bank Or on a Mac: ~/Library/Application Support/Blizzard/StarCraft II/Accounts/xxxx/Your Account ID/Banks/2-S2-1-241693/Banks.SC2Bank
First of all, thanks a lot for a great mod. It is IMO the best mod right now in a TD style. Second, I'm quite happy to see a comrade from the motherland doing a game in a such high quality. Third, I can't say that I am a pro in this game (~70 games), but it is really addictive, and i've shown the game to 4 friends of mine and all 4 are bringing their friends into the community, and I cant stop playing it myself. I cant say I can play more than 3-4 games in a row, but still it is quite fun. My idea's about the game are: - I would love to be able to pick monsters to check their hp and see some info about them - Would be great to see, who's leaking by simply putting mouse at random monster - Would be nice to see, who's tower is that - Would be nice to see some button which would allow to see the whole wave tree, who's following what etc - Dont really understand why damage is in a range. Does it means that it all depends on a luck? - Would be awesome to see some page in which one can know for sure which ultimate requires which rare resources (mb small icons or something like that). - Would be great if one clicks a resource and see what one can build with it.
I still feel that some games are ruined just because you had a bad luck and you got for instance 0 food in a game, and you simply dont have any tanks. I've had games with 6-7 metal's, 6 golds, 5 farms etc, but no something really essential. I love the idea of random minerals, but I dislike the idea of no farm / no mana / too much gold and nothing else. Or like 2-3 sub on the main but me have to rush for mid just to get something that I really need. Would be amazing to see T1 resources (sub) mid 99% of the time, with gold being super rare (2 max). But that is just my opinion, I cant say that i'm good or bad with the game. Ghost seems to be superior to Darpa, Snow Queen looks better than any other unit in the tree (upped mage doesnt feel like it is giving huge damage). Ghosts seem to counter Idol well, but if idols have few mag ultimate and few Anubises, seems like this is OP combo. And one team can only build it by having a luck involved hardcore. Kinda like in poker. Skill does help, but after all it all comes to what you get.
We've played several 4v4 games with friends and it feels like it is very luck based rather than experience based. We've had a guy that played his 3rd game. He had 3-4 income even at the end, and was smacking waves from 1 till last. And we had a guy with ~100 games experience having no good set of resources and struggling through waves all game long.
Also sending 4+ void rays in certain waves seems like an OP strategy :D
^^ luck based? then you're not putting $ into the right stuff at the right time. even w the shittiest luck w res, my team (i have a list of 10+ guys i play w) was able to win or finish the game 95% of the time. you really only need 1-2 mines of each res and just max the output of each res to finish the game & even without oil sub or crys, u can still finish the game if u get the right combo of units
sending is always an op strat. remember this is based on STD. on STD, you can send certain units on certain waves to win / end the game. so obviously you can do the same on this game.
sending 4+ voids? its just as effective if you send a mule, muta, lurk, diam, etc on certain waves.
who's we? play us, even w the best luck w res, we'll make sure you guys lose every time and survive all your sends on those certain waves
just cuz someone has 100+ games doesn't mean they know how to play it op. ive seen guys with 200+ games who still have no idea what theyre doing or duno what's op. maybe you should state their elo instead of how many game theyve played. i've seen guys with 300+ games with 1300 elo cuz they always lose.
komodowaran My statistics say that evil conjurer wave isn't the main wave ppl lose at. But it was slightly nerfed since you posted. Not 1 scorpion, as you suggested, just a bit.
Mixed race have a good chance to have a food, but I don't want to force it to appear, because it's not critical. They can only have mana, and still be able to create 2 crusaders and 2 archers, which is enough to get enough money to start spawning omething serious.
Special rules for noobs is a good idea, and I may add it in a future.
Upgrading drill laser is also a good idea, but then ppl will drill opponents' towers. They do now, but it doesn't deal too many damage. And forbidding this activity doesn't feel right. I'll think about it.
FoUw
Buffs of not mech are indeed can't be applied to mech. Only bufferfly can buff mech, but not other kinds.
About your other points: some of them are already in my list, some added, and some I will think about.
blackpimple
Thanks, I'll check the triggers to see if 1v1 or when ppl leave on loading screen can ruin the stats. And if click the "Rewards" button at top left, you'll see what rewards you still have. I think the Elo one should still be there.
mynhauzen
Well, Probes and Zealots is also from a russian dude and it's good too.
About your suggestion, same: some are already in my least (I just not too fast implemening them), and some I need to think about.
What did you mean by this "dont really understand why damage is in a range. Does it means that it all depends on a luck?"?
elo one is still there but the mine is still the original skin. games finished is still there. again, i still have pink laser.
i JUST logged on, and rest of the reward reset again! hm.... to note, im on a new mac powerbook with no antivirus and also did not delete any files.
I should note that people who did have 1750+ elo before you added the rewards, were not able to receive the elo reward after reward system was implemented.
So I ask again, since you did not answer, do I have to go back below 1750, n then come back to 1750 again for the reward to be in effect? or can this be fixed on the next patch update so everyone with 1750+ receive the skin? would hate to do this btw.
what about the rest of the rewards? are they gone for good and i have to earn it again? - if so, can you hook me up w something on the next patch? pretty unfair since i played / worked hard to get the rewards!
blackpimple, as I said, I dont really have much of experience so I dont know for sure mechanics and exacly what needs to be done to win every game or at least 90%. I win 70-80% of the games, but still have a lot of games in which i'm like - wth? what's now? Zolden_ , well damage is written in range, meaning its not like its 32. Its 25-40. So it sounds like it is based on luck. Whether its 25 or 40. Or does it depends on a certain unit (armor etc)?
On January 10 2014 18:06 mynhauzen wrote: blackpimple, as I said, I dont really have much of experience so I dont know for sure mechanics and exacly what needs to be done to win every game or at least 90%. I win 70-80% of the games, but still have a lot of games in which i'm like - wth? what's now?
hard to say w/o actually seeing it. but dont judge people based on amount of games. judge people by elo. if they have over 1650+ theyre usually good players. anything below are caca players.
factor in the other team's sends. you'll learn a lot too if you play a few games of solo n find where the flaws are in ur game.
hate to admit it, but it took me a while to figure it out and beat it on solo. now, i can beat it almost every time no matter what res i get. this is why i say its not luck based, altho luck w res helps, but not necessary.
On January 10 2014 17:47 blackpimple wrote: I should note that people who did have 1750+ elo before you added the rewards, were not able to receive the elo reward after reward system was implemented.
I had 1750+ elo when Zolden added the rewards and I received the achievement and reward immediately.
On January 10 2014 17:47 blackpimple wrote: I should note that people who did have 1750+ elo before you added the rewards, were not able to receive the elo reward after reward system was implemented.
I had 1750+ elo when Zolden added the rewards and I received the achievement and reward immediately.
Blizzard recognizes that the time and resources needed to create a Custom Game can sometimes be substantial. Accordingly, Custom Game developers are allowed to fund their development costs through donations, subject to the following restrictions:
A. Donors shall not be provided with any in-game special advantages, such as private access to a Custom Game, special levels, graphical markers, special text, abilities, units, etc. All users are to be able to play the same Custom Game
On January 12 2014 17:55 komodowaran wrote: I wonder how Zolden made the rewards that you get by donatig because i though thats not alowed
Every top map violates at least one rule. Most top maps offer donor rewards. Blizzard would have a pretty scant arcade if they enforced it, and rightfully so.
So, you have actual Elo > 1750, but didn't get the elo reward? Could you please post a screen with both opened "Rewards" and "LB" dialogs?
You don't need to go under 1750 to have it, should work by fact that you have >1750.
About the rest of rewards, again, let me see how that screen look.
Ulciscor
Lol, I did read this, but the fact is: Blizz do warn people to remove some copyrighted content they use in their games or simply ban maps for ads of companies. So, they could warn ppl who have donations->reward system too. But they don't. They even approve kickstarters for some maps, and those kickstarters give not only visual rewards.
Therefore, we have reasons to believe, that Blizz are ok about this stuff.
There is no patch notes since 0.11 ! And it is now version 0.143, we need patch notes! And nerf the full ghosts build please, people don't bother doing anything else than some tanks + full ghosts now And also nerf the slime wave marine! At least allow us to xray the marine, otherwise with 110 health its a 3 xray unit, so pretty much unkillable. Sending a marine for slim wave is now mainstream and impossible to counter.
zolden. i achieved one of the rewards. 7/7 in a row and mine skin came back.
is games finished 10. 3rd reward the snow? or is it the 100 career wins?
someone told me reward 3 games finished is snow. is that correct? if so, maybe thats the prob. i had snow spell after i had 100 career wins. so maybe it reset because i wasnt supposed to have it, or you updated snow spell from career wins to games finished?
Awesome the game feels pretty good with all the changes since my last post. It feels more challenging and not every game is lasting till the final battle. Makes it more interesting again Thank you Zolden!
Jes snow does make you leek if you don't have a realy dood defense snow in first round is a 100%leek if you target a mixed class player since they wil ondly have 1 crusader
Heres few bugs: - pathing doesn't always work well; sometimes units in the beginning of the wave fight, but the rest turn around in the muddle of a fight - if 2 people build same time a tower for the same res on the map, they can share it - when new mech units - tank, move forward, they sometimes switch targets, which doesnt help em to kill well (on very high lvls they are killed while trying to get closer (когда перед смертью таранят), and they don't таранят mothership)
After some balancing of ghosts it feels like everyone goes darpas+ Wizzards+ few anubises, which is now countering everything else. Wave 5 seems op, if a team gets 4-6 metals. Maybe would be nice to let send only one marine per person in w5? I havent seen a single team that defended vs 6 marines
1. i dont agree with marine downgrade. u can easily beat marine send on 5 with proper d.
2. new race. awesome! but we need 1 metal to start too with oil. i just played 2 games with NO metals anywhere!!! cant build past wave 2! yikes!
3. we really need a vote kick feature. we get so many noobs or trolls who purposely make us lose. on nexus squadron strike, it requires 3 people to vote kick 1 person. if 3 left, then 2 to kick 1 person. i cant even count how many this time happened but just last game alone, this troll didnt build or do anything and just sat there for 10 waves.
4. Getting a tie on wave 37, we should still get games finished.
5. mech units are too costly res wise. i think 2nd and 3rd are ok but 1st require oil too? y not just make it 30 gold with no oil needed. idk.
it's also very hard to income with this race.
6. When other team leaks, and units get to the canon. we get +1 50% of the time. i think we should get +1 for all units leaked, like std. std, i believe it's +2 for sends that make it there.
@blackpimple I agree with you thatvit woud not be bad to have a vk feature but i think you shoud need all players exept the troll to kick the troll So if 8 players you need 7 to kick him
On January 29 2014 17:23 komodowaran wrote: @blackpimple I agree with you thatvit woud not be bad to have a vk feature but i think you shoud need all players exept the troll to kick the troll So if 8 players you need 7 to kick him
i disagree. it should be a team decision. esp when the other team can't even see what our team is doing. dessert strike does that n a lot of the times, the other team doesn't vote for u to either troll u, or to make u lose w the noob / troll.
On January 29 2014 17:23 komodowaran wrote: @blackpimple I agree with you thatvit woud not be bad to have a vk feature but i think you shoud need all players exept the troll to kick the troll So if 8 players you need 7 to kick him
i disagree. it should be a team decision. esp when the other team can't even see what our team is doing. dessert strike does that n a lot of the times, the other team doesn't vote for u to either troll u, or to make u lose w the noob / troll.
Ok i can see your point we shoud ad it but prevent that it gets like in pvz2
@wave 37draw How about you do a wave 38 with no hostile mobs so all unit's of all players go to mid and there is a real ending
On January 29 2014 17:23 komodowaran wrote: @blackpimple I agree with you thatvit woud not be bad to have a vk feature but i think you shoud need all players exept the troll to kick the troll So if 8 players you need 7 to kick him
i disagree. it should be a team decision. esp when the other team can't even see what our team is doing. dessert strike does that n a lot of the times, the other team doesn't vote for u to either troll u, or to make u lose w the noob / troll.
Ok i can see your point we shoud ad it but prevent that it gets like in pvz2
@wave 37draw How about you do a wave 38 with no hostile mobs so all unit's of all players go to mid and there is a real ending
Regarding a draw, y, it is disappointing when it happens. But I like it as an option. It means that both armies were pretty close at the end and one won the other with a small difference. Makes sense that it is a draw. Regarding vote kick, it is abusable. You might kick a noob that will get offended just cause he has nice resources. Regarding wave 5, imo it is annoying to play vs premade teams that send out 5-7 marines an ez win to get 1800 rating. Every single premade does that and vs randoms it is a 100% win with no real work. How would u counter 2 marines with a mixed race? You cant.
On January 29 2014 17:23 komodowaran wrote: @blackpimple I agree with you thatvit woud not be bad to have a vk feature but i think you shoud need all players exept the troll to kick the troll So if 8 players you need 7 to kick him
i disagree. it should be a team decision. esp when the other team can't even see what our team is doing. dessert strike does that n a lot of the times, the other team doesn't vote for u to either troll u, or to make u lose w the noob / troll.
Ok i can see your point we shoud ad it but prevent that it gets like in pvz2
@wave 37draw How about you do a wave 38 with no hostile mobs so all unit's of all players go to mid and there is a real ending
what's pvz2 and please explain the issue?
PvZ2 is Probes vs Zelots 2 and the issue is that any one that feeds gets -vote salvage kick't and there where the zelot is the guy feeds in other words in the corent metha about 60% of the Players get vote salvage kicked(somtimes as a revenge of the player because he got kicked
Joined a lobby and a host there added 6 computers so the game started right away. When it started he asked me to leave but i refused. Never realized but if u do that, computers will actually leak all game long, I picked random and got mixed eace, he picked melee. All 7 waves his skeletons cleared all 4 waves. I think I cleared only wave 6. Wave 7 my base died. Ez way to get elo high. I think i lost 30 elo that game
today i meet a mines and magic veteran on the eu server who i never saw before he had over 1200 games and a realy high elo but wait how can you get so a high elo with ondly 1236 games ? soki's elo is 123k
bug: the angel that gives near by units a shild does not affect unit's of the new mech race
@komodorawan He hacked the bankfile, its impossible to get that elo. I get like +3 or +4 if I win.
Patch changes:
+ Overal liking the changes and I really do like the randomized waves, it keeps the game interesting and innovative
- Reapers were fine there was no need to nerf them, as you only can build a few of them on endgame - New builder (really cool builder!): Starting is extremely hard with this builder: Spiders cost 5 oil and 1 metal, the 5 oil is huge. Considering you spend 2-3 oil on billies alone you have to max your oil asap which means you can barely grab any other resources as you simply dont have the gold for it. Also everything needs metal (excluding billies) in this builder and I have gotten enough games where metal is no where to be found and usually 1 oil. This makes things extremely hard and you will behind really fast.
As for the units in the builder, I think so far the builder is balanced except for the extremely weak billies and there upgrades, because it is so weak, you really need melee units fast to help tank the damage and since oil is quite scarce it is really hard to transition into mech. Food (for melee units) is not even cost effective as you need 3 different resources to keep your defense up to wave 10 while other builders only need 1 resource. (combination builder holds wave 10 with 3 melee and 3 archers unupgraded)
This builder relies extremely hard on luck and it is very vulnerable to strong sends early. If you made it through the first 10 waves, it starts to get decent and holds up par to the stronger builders which are combi, ranged and magic. (melee is pretty much: do u get metal within the first 14 waves, if not your fked)
Simple suggestion: Just lower the resource costs from the units especially billies, billies cost 2 oil and u only start with 5 or 6 (can't remember) For example make billies cost 1 oil and spiders 4 oil, leave everything else.
@new builder i agree with you that the new builder is realy bad if you don't have eather 2oil+1metal+food or 1oil+2metall+food at the start Thats because the billy's are so so weak The ondly billy that is not 100% useles is the bomb billy but he is a total of 7oil The laser billy has a to big cooldown on his laser to me mouch of a use later because he gats killed to fast so you never shoud build them The spider has a cool ability but vs ranged wave you wil leek if you position your spiders so that the abillity woud help) the upgradet for of the spider for the stun is realy cool but sucks vs bosses the other upgrade is realy good if you have about 5 of them and enough tanks to suport them with energy thats the best unit that the mech builder has in combination woth tanks
And an other problem is wave 1 if you ondly build one billy you might leek if you have bad luck (snow+send) if you build 2 your eco is realy bad
the tank that gives energy is the ondly good unit but the abillity he gets from upgrading is not realy good on a ranged unit (boomb billy woud need it)
Ps: its good that noobs can't play mech because mech is the best way to ruin your elo
I'd like to say this a great game. I like the new changes, I was hoping for a crystalic race instead of mech, but what can you do.
My only complaint is I feel mana is too important to the game. When you get there rare game with no mana, there is very little you can do. I think the mana requirement should be removed from building and upgrading beholder's to allow you to play with 0 mana. Its bad enough when you can't even shoot rocks, but if you have to weigh that against building a defense it can be a no win situtation.
Aside from that I think the game is great and keep up the amazing work.
I really enjoy this game, and I think it offers a lot of oppurtinities for new strategies and teamwork. There are two things that bother me right now.
1. Premade vs premade (or random): I have had several games at this, and it seems that some sents at waves might be too strong. The problem here is that a premade will decide with their entire team on what round they will sent huge (like 3+ rounds before they actually send), and they can sent so much that its pretty much unstoppable. This can be very imba and basically unstoppable from what ive seen, even for another premade. To illustrate this point with a example I played yesterday: two premades of four each played eachother 4vs4: both teams bombarded eachother with marines at 5, then they sent huge at 10 but we survived, then we sent huge at 13, but they survived. Then they sent huge at 17, and although my entire team was expecting that they would sent and we clearly overbuild our army, we had no chance in stopping it (each one of us received 3 voids/diamonds/lurkers/mutas). I feel this is kind of broken in premade vs premade, especially wave 17 is far too strong with sents, and I think voids/diamonds should be available later because they are too strong to handle at wave 17.
2. Elo system: I really like the elo system and it feels good to have some kind of reward when winning. However, right now elo is forcing very skilled players to avoid challenges at all times and play games that are already looking clearly too easy in lobby. That's why ''best'' way right now to earn elo is to play premade x4, and just kill all noobs in public lobbies on wave 5 by sending huge. This is demotivating for pro players and very repetitive, but it is the best way to make elo and I personally hate it. I think that elo bonuses should be based even more on elo differences, and that there should be a limit on elo that can be earned playing in public lobbies. Like for instance, if a team who has an average elo of 1800 plays vs a team that has average of 1500 elo, I think the team of 1800 should receive 0 points. Clearly they are better so why reward them with points? I think that the average elo difference of teams should be max 100, and any more than that should result in higher elo team not receiving any points. This way players are forced to either play with public players, or if they play premade they should find opponents who are atleast near their skill level (100 average elo difference is still a lot though). Right now most players don't want inhouses because its a serious threat to their elo, but this change would motivate inhouses a lot and would make the game more interesting and competitive.
PS: EU & U.S server: I've played in both servers and it seems there is a bigger community in U.S server. They have several mines and magic clans there, and some of them have like 20-30 players online regularly (I am in the piupiu clan there now and looots of good players). In EU there seems to be only the mines and magic addicts group, and just a handful of players that are really good, this is also causing serious problems to find inhouse 4v4 games. It would be nice if we could somehow stimulate cross-server inhouses. Right now EU players and U.S players are too seperated from eachother, and EU players think they the best, and US players think they the best (i've seen some 1900 elo players in US lol).
i got a chance to play with mech builder a LOT. no metal to start, is manageable as long as there is metal somewhere in the same lane and not on the other side of the map. also, having 1 oil is devastating. that's like having 1 mana res for magic race. - not saying we should start with 2, but just letting you know.
i didn't like 2 hits on rine at first but i think it's ok now.
need to work on balance tho, meaning.. 4 vs 3. i'm on 3. why do i have to hit the acid lings twice to kill it? it should be one hit. otherwise, it gives the advantage to the other team. we get extra sends AND we g2 hit acid lings twice? logic does not make sense. if anything, the units we get should be weaker since we are facing vs 1 extra player and extra sends.
On February 08 2014 22:45 LongTerm wrote: I really enjoy this game, and I think it offers a lot of oppurtinities for new strategies and teamwork. There are two things that bother me right now.
1. Premade vs premade (or random): I have had several games at this, and it seems that some sents at waves might be too strong. The problem here is that a premade will decide with their entire team on what round they will sent huge (like 3+ rounds before they actually send), and they can sent so much that its pretty much unstoppable. This can be very imba and basically unstoppable from what ive seen, even for another premade. To illustrate this point with a example I played yesterday: two premades of four each played eachother 4vs4: both teams bombarded eachother with marines at 5, then they sent huge at 10 but we survived, then we sent huge at 13, but they survived. Then they sent huge at 17, and although my entire team was expecting that they would sent and we clearly overbuild our army, we had no chance in stopping it (each one of us received 3 voids/diamonds/lurkers/mutas). I feel this is kind of broken in premade vs premade, especially wave 17 is far too strong with sents, and I think voids/diamonds should be available later because they are too strong to handle at wave 17.
2. Elo system: I really like the elo system and it feels good to have some kind of reward when winning. However, right now elo is forcing very skilled players to avoid challenges at all times and play games that are already looking clearly too easy in lobby. That's why ''best'' way right now to earn elo is to play premade x4, and just kill all noobs in public lobbies on wave 5 by sending huge. This is demotivating for pro players and very repetitive, but it is the best way to make elo and I personally hate it. I think that elo bonuses should be based even more on elo differences, and that there should be a limit on elo that can be earned playing in public lobbies. Like for instance, if a team who has an average elo of 1800 plays vs a team that has average of 1500 elo, I think the team of 1800 should receive 0 points. Clearly they are better so why reward them with points? I think that the average elo difference of teams should be max 100, and any more than that should result in higher elo team not receiving any points. This way players are forced to either play with public players, or if they play premade they should find opponents who are atleast near their skill level (100 average elo difference is still a lot though). Right now most players don't want inhouses because its a serious threat to their elo, but this change would motivate inhouses a lot and would make the game more interesting and competitive.
PS: EU & U.S server: I've played in both servers and it seems there is a bigger community in U.S server. They have several mines and magic clans there, and some of them have like 20-30 players online regularly (I am in the piupiu clan there now and looots of good players). In EU there seems to be only the mines and magic addicts group, and just a handful of players that are really good, this is also causing serious problems to find inhouse 4v4 games. It would be nice if we could somehow stimulate cross-server inhouses. Right now EU players and U.S players are too seperated from eachother, and EU players think they the best, and US players think they the best (i've seen some 1900 elo players in US lol).
you know you sound like an idiot right?
1. of course it's strong. because they saved up. it's the same thing in STD, which this map is based on. why don't you try suggesting something useful, like send cap like STD instead of complaining about premade teams. obv your teams suck, all max sends are beatable with / without mine / shield upgrade if you spend $ n res into the correct things w/o too much expansion.
2. he's following standard elo logic. go google what elo is and how other games, like chess, calculates it.
On February 03 2014 19:59 komodowaran wrote: @new builder i agree with you that the new builder is realy bad if you don't have eather 2oil+1metal+food or 1oil+2metall+food at the start Thats because the billy's are so so weak The ondly billy that is not 100% useles is the bomb billy but he is a total of 7oil The laser billy has a to big cooldown on his laser to me mouch of a use later because he gats killed to fast so you never shoud build them The spider has a cool ability but vs ranged wave you wil leek if you position your spiders so that the abillity woud help) the upgradet for of the spider for the stun is realy cool but sucks vs bosses the other upgrade is realy good if you have about 5 of them and enough tanks to suport them with energy thats the best unit that the mech builder has in combination woth tanks
And an other problem is wave 1 if you ondly build one billy you might leek if you have bad luck (snow+send) if you build 2 your eco is realy bad
the tank that gives energy is the ondly good unit but the abillity he gets from upgrading is not realy good on a ranged unit (boomb billy woud need it)
Ps: its good that noobs can't play mech because mech is the best way to ruin your elo
disagree. that's like saying if you build 1 cypress you might leak cuz of 2 drone sends.
1 billy can withstand 1 drone send just like cypress.
it will leak with 2 drone sends just like cypress.
don't be a noob, save your drill.
after his last balance to mech, everything is fine now. play more, and master mech like you have with your best race. magic was my best race, and now mech is my best race. (assuming i can find 2 metals)
On February 03 2014 19:59 komodowaran wrote: @new builder i agree with you that the new builder is realy bad if you don't have eather 2oil+1metal+food or 1oil+2metall+food at the start Thats because the billy's are so so weak The ondly billy that is not 100% useles is the bomb billy but he is a total of 7oil The laser billy has a to big cooldown on his laser to me mouch of a use later because he gats killed to fast so you never shoud build them The spider has a cool ability but vs ranged wave you wil leek if you position your spiders so that the abillity woud help) the upgradet for of the spider for the stun is realy cool but sucks vs bosses the other upgrade is realy good if you have about 5 of them and enough tanks to suport them with energy thats the best unit that the mech builder has in combination woth tanks
And an other problem is wave 1 if you ondly build one billy you might leek if you have bad luck (snow+send) if you build 2 your eco is realy bad
the tank that gives energy is the ondly good unit but the abillity he gets from upgrading is not realy good on a ranged unit (boomb billy woud need it)
Ps: its good that noobs can't play mech because mech is the best way to ruin your elo
disagree. that's like saying if you build 1 cypress you might leak cuz of 2 drone sends.
1 billy can withstand 1 drone send just like cypress.
it will leak with 2 drone sends just like cypress.
don't be a noob, save your drill.
after his last balance to mech, everything is fine now. play more, and master mech like you have with your best race. magic was my best race, and now mech is my best race. (assuming i can find 2 metals)
Jes a billy can withstand a drone But a billy wil leek hard vs a drone+snow or 2 drones (i get snowed normaly because im not noob stumping) And if u leek the first round you can surrender because u wil have a disadvantage for the rest of the game
@blackpimple donations help u to get ur reward lv up so u can play mech and have snow in case u are unable to get the other rewards (7in a row is easy if u have a frend to do the last 3 games with if u are on a 4 ein spree, best elo ever u wil get if u go noob stumping,10games endet u get with playing in house games,and 100games endet u wil get when u have the rest)
1. of course it's strong. because they saved up. it's the same thing in STD, which this map is based on. why don't you try suggesting something useful, like send cap like STD instead of complaining about premade teams. obv your teams suck, all max sends are beatable with / without mine / shield upgrade if you spend $ n res into the correct things w/o too much expansion.
2. he's following standard elo logic. go google what elo is and how other games, like chess, calculates it.
3. you sound like an idiot
My elo is always around 1850, and I could easily get to 1900 np. I am not saying this because I am having a hard time to get a high elo, I am saying this because I have seen other players who have 1850 elo and posess not even half the skill I do. It is annoying to see noob players play x4 premade to keep their elo up, and when challenged by strong teams like my own team they dodge cuz they don't want to ruin their elo. I am sure that other games also use a elo type system, but probably their match-making is different and a team of 1600 elo doesnt get matchmaked with a team of 1800elo.
To give a simple example why the current elo system is broken: -Had my elo on 1840 currently, and played a game with x4 premade and our average elo was something like 1780. Our opponents had an average elo of like 1600. At wave 5 we kill them with some marines sent, and I receive 2 elo points.
-I had another game where I didn't play premade, elo was around 1840. It was a 3v3 and my teammates had elo of 1500 and 1400, on other team they had elo of 1600+1700+1650. So their average elo was even higher than ours, after playing like 30 rounds we win and I get only 3 elo points. It does not make sense to me when I get so little points when I have won such a game, while I get 2 elo points when i win a easy game where the elo difference is more than 200. The current elo system promotes to noobbash and also promotes to dodge teams of similar skill.
PS: Learn some manners please, even if you disagree with me, this is no way to behave to other players.
Actually this perma wave changes dont make the map better and make people angry... the difficulty should be to win against the enemys, and not being lucky in defending a wave because you changed something in it AGAIN.
But the map itself rox,
Erpel@europe 6/6 Rewards greets
PS: The fact, that some stats are saved on local machine make a good balance system nearly impossible. Its easy to manipulate
LongTerm , I totally agree with you. To be honest I lost a lot of interest just because most of the people I loved to play with realized that it was all about sends in this game. All the premades we had were about send's, not about getting till the end (I had zero games with no massive sends, or at least large sends on hard waves). We pushed some friends of ours from 1300 rating up to 1800 rating just with a proper cheeze play. That is clearly not their lvl, but this strategy is too easy to execute. Like you send massive on wave 21. One player gets 2-3 good res, and saves up for instance for 5 voids, and 3 other players defend pretty well vs waves and send a lot on the same wave, with 1-2 voids each + mutas etc. I had 0 games which I lost with this strategy. Zero. My elo was ~1900 after a ton of games in premades, which is clearly not my level. Send on 5th wave is op (2 marines max would be a good limit just to make sure it is beatable). To stop this one cannot play weak defense race. With melee it is much easier to defend than with mixed race.
I like the way it is that you can cheeze, I dont like the idea that it is the only viable strategy one should play. Playing repetitive same games with massive sends, or winning on wave 5 gets boring very fast.
I really like the last patch, and agree with all changes.
Especially turbo mode of defense drone is a great improvement. This will help vs that cheese play of players who basically go '' All-In'' and safe up 5 waves to send extremely huge on a specific wave. It is also nice for decent players who havent leaked any single round and all of a sudden they make a small mistake and don't have the resources available to upgrade base.
I had a mech game a day ago where i expandet but did not finde a single mettal all game long thats when u think:omg thr ondly unit i can build are billys and boomb billys bommb billys are bad so ondly normals billys til i have enough to get somthing better
I've been playing mech a lot lately, and think it is a fine builder. Perhaps those devastators are a bit too strong, mainly because their suicide attack seems too strong, both vs monsters as well as final battle vs players.
Even without metal, I think mech can do decent. I've had games where I did not find any metal near my base, and the closest metal was like 5 expansions away. Still, in most of those games u get mana/crystal so arc is a suitable choice in such metal-less games.
Second: I mostly play solo or with friends (but not VS someone) so I wanted to ask which wave is the last one ? After wave 37 the rabbit button does not give info anymore. So 38 was a BIG BIG Dragon which killed my base (First time i reached him was yesterday). Could that be the last wave ?
Also, can you guys provide some tactics ? (I play combined builder atm *g*) Anubis does not seem tough enough for the Resources he costs. The conjurers are cool (provide their own tanks). Holy Arcs are just WOW. They make my frontline stay so much longer What is the Ultimate Unit for Oil ?
See you on EU
(btw there were multiple updates in the last 2 weeks, from like 0.162 to 0.183, any patchnotes ? *g*)
@DrShell Dragon (wave 38) is the final one Anubs: dond build them rexibar is a good enough front line
conjurers( the tanks have ondly 50 live) they are bad unles uped Tactics: depends on resurses i recomend random builder over standart builder because standart is bad late game
Holy arcs: jep they are cool
Tip: play vs real players
bug report: the angle that gives an shild to nearby units of u is 100% useles with mech builder units because there is a bug that they don't get it
On February 19 2014 03:45 komodowaran wrote: @DrShell Dragon (wave 38) is the final one Anubs: dond build them rexibar is a good enough front line
conjurers( the tanks have ondly 50 live) they are bad unles uped Tactics: depends on resurses i recomend random builder over standart builder because standart is bad late game
Holy arcs: jep they are cool
Tip: play vs real players
bug report: the angle that gives an shild to nearby units of u is 100% useles with mech builder units because there is a bug that they don't get it
The dragon wave is the final wave, but it is the 37rd wave. Rexxars are not so good lategame, if you can build Anubis you should build them.
I believe that mines and magic is easy to understand for beginners, and interesting for the semi-advanced player. For the well-experienced (1850elo+, 300+ games) however, it does not offer as much as fun yet. Most interesting games for me right now are 2v2s inhouses, but it is a bit hard to find and the RNG resources seem to decide the winner in most of these games.
A EU mines of magic player (Alexei) mentioned an interesting idea. It is to mirror the resources, so that both teams have the same resources available. Resources would still be random, but it would make games a lot more fair. It would also give more opportunity for strategy, as if you would see that your missing subdolak, you know that your opponent also misses it, and both of you try to rush mid to get it. Overall I think it would be an improvement to the game and would help against the frustration of rng mines. Especially on higher level play, the resources around base have too much impact as to which team will win the game.
To make it easier for strong players and teams to find good opponents, I would recommend to make a seperate mode. Squadron also has different modes'' 4v4, Team mode and 1v1''. Likewise the mode could be added :'' Team vs Team'' or ''2v2 Premade''. This would allow strong teams to find strong opponent easier, without getting stuck with beginners in their lobby.
PS: Ogres on melee builder are far too underpowered and useless. Give em a buff ! (Also don't like the latest fungal nerve from 6 to 8 food).
PS2: Have played a few squadronTD games to see what the ''reall'' game is like. I should say I like mines and magic a lot more than squadron TD; 1. it looks better, 2. The resources are different, so each game is different. Not one lame build that works in all games. Need to use ur mind to use all resources effective. 3. Mines and magic seems easier to play, I had some serious difficulties trying to understand squadronTD, while I was already decent in mines and magic after 2 games. Keep it up! I think this game has the potential to surpass SquadronTD!
I have noticed that to if you are playing good any u don't leek and u get awards(fire boost and co) your elo can go up at the end of a game by a small amount if ur team lost because it was not because of u
On March 30 2014 18:17 ldiunyh wrote: Hi everyone, i'm Baovebangai - does anybody know me (American sever) ? HAHA i see famous Longterm from PiuPiu clan is here !
I think i have played vs you over there im reward 3 there
Hey hey !! That Longterm ! Famous everywhere I agree with Erpel, often at wave 37 when u go high res u dont have enough time to all build or send, I would say that 20 more sec wouldnt be bad. And btw some people cheat by modifying bankfiles (to get higher elo or w/e), is there a way to make it safer ?
Game needs some changes imo. I've played quite some games myself now and I've noticed a trend in players not building any towers. (going full eco) I personally think this ruins the game. Early waves can be held easily by your allies if they know how to build towers accordingly, later wave leaks even quartz monster/ diamonster waves are easily thwarted by an well upgraded mine guard. (even if all 4 players on the team leak)
Finally at dragon wave this person going full eco has now established a full robotron+anubis composition. Even if you managed to beat the "eco team" in the middle you cannot kill the nexus and it will be a draw.
I've got at least 2 replays to back this story up. I think mine guards need a nerf / be less upgradeable.
Yes... this strategy looks very powerfull. If one or two player in the team have cristal and subdolak they can up the mine guard and protect the central ressource easily. If you play necro, you have a hight chance to have cristal + subdolak.
I think mine guards need a nerf / be less upgradeable.
Yeah. I think you have just to nerf the multi-fire upgrade of the mine guard and the game will be fine.
Idea: No multi fire anymore. With the cristal you can buy, before the wave, a new turbo ability for the mine guard. For exemple, 7 cristal to buy a second turbo, 20 cristal to buy a third turbo, etc. Thus, if you think opponents are preparing a big all in with mass sends, you can buy a new turbo.
On April 30 2014 01:43 [DVH]Huginn wrote: Game needs some changes imo. I've played quite some games myself now and I've noticed a trend in players not building any towers. (going full eco) I personally think this ruins the game. Early waves can be held easily by your allies if they know how to build towers accordingly, later wave leaks even quartz monster/ diamonster waves are easily thwarted by an well upgraded mine guard. (even if all 4 players on the team leak)
Finally at dragon wave this person going full eco has now established a full robotron+anubis composition. Even if you managed to beat the "eco team" in the middle you cannot kill the nexus and it will be a draw.
I've got at least 2 replays to back this story up. I think mine guards need a nerf / be less upgradeable.
Earlyer in this thrend i have posted replays of me doing this and asked if it is a good stratagy i think they might have watched the replays i can tell the full eco stratagy is dependet on if u have gold at ur start if u have no gold at ur start place u shoud not go it if u have one you can go full eco and u wil br able to carry later but if u have 2 or more gold mines at the start u shoud always go full eco since u then can have 7robotrons upped 7anubis upped and somme battle tanks in the last round and that wil just shred dragon (the dps of 7 robotrons upped is out of control but because u have ur 500gold income u can aford to get them if u don't go eco u normaly get max 3 of them
I agree the mineguard tactic can be too strong. Altho it is not easy to build a huge army end game, I do think mineguard could use a slight nerve, especially end game a maxed mineguard can hold pretty much everything with turbo (i've seen 1-2 mineguards hold vs strong armies including sun idols).
PS: anyone ever had such a big armies? ( all games were played vs real opponents, I took screenshots of my biggest armies)
The point is not getting that big of an army. As long as you can produce an army that can hold dragon and remove most of the enemy tanky units the mine guards do the rest playing at least for a draw. Just look at the picture below (spoiler)
My teams army at their doorstep, after destroying their army. + Show Spoiler +
I don't think I need to do the math, but 4 upped sun idols, 1 sun idol, 2 upped rexxar, 1 upped anubis, 14 reapers, 6 ghosts, 2 marauders and 3 Finnair's figid sould (upped graderstuds) are worth way more than upping the mine guard yet the battle seems quite one-sided.
If only a handfull of army remains I think it's fair to draw, but an army this size should just win imo.
Edid: sorry my screenshots didn't pan out the way I'd like to: please copy paste into your browser.
Keep in mind that reapers do very bad vs mineguard, generally for base kill you need battletanks/sunidols/robotrons. I agree with you that its too strong, but then you are up with 1x army vs x4 mineguard, so its not the best example.
I'll show a better example of why currently mineguard is too strong. This will make it pretty clear that the mineguard is too effective, atleast at endgame it is with turbo:
I agree, reapers aren't the best vs mine guard, but it's the best image I could find in my recent games. And I think it clearly shows the mine guard is OverPowered. Your images are more convincing though. Thanks for the added pics. I hope a slight nerf could be possible in the near future.
I'd also like to mention the randomness of the mines although fun can be near impossible when not given any mana even when reaching over the half of the map. With 0 mana you CAN kill dragon without a problem if you know how to play, but the send income from Lurker, Mule and muta is quite significant, and quite strong as well. Most end game units require mana except robotrons. In my games I notice that once I get 0 mana (which isn't too often) I'm having trouble techswitching, lasering rocks/sends is a pain, when up against heavy senders impossible to hold some waves unless your allies are watching your lane and helping out (which is almost never unless you're in an arranged team). And even with the help of your allies you still have to make a "good" end game composition which when you lack mana + oil or subdolak or crystals is close to impossible. Enemies messing up big time is your saving grace.
I know the last part isn't that big of an issue right now (unless everyone know how to play, which in most of my games isn't the case), but it feels like you're put in a large deficit before the game even starts. Which again imo is a bad thing for any game. I think RNG is fun but is should be slightly less random than is it now, as mentioned in earlier posts: maybe calculation what resources a player doesn't have and adding it to the destructible rocks chance of spawning.
Last part I'd like to touch for now is the ELO and newcommers, in my experience players playing for the first time unwilling to leave are the number one cause of a loss. But this hacks into your ELO like a battle axe through butter. There should be something that determines if the first timer is playing and acting imbecilic or is really trying I.E. leaking all waves+not leaving=almost certain loss therefore only slight ELO loss for the more experienced players. Or holding most waves (usually up until 20-something) then leaking all without expanding a single time. Which also leads to an almost certain loss. When first timing the experience difference with a player who has played 5 games is just too huge to compare equally. I think players with <10 games on their name should not be taken serious with the initial 1600 ELO given.
Ended up to be quite the story, hope some of my feedback will be used to improve the game or at least think about.
That is some interesting feedback Huginn, I like to share my opinion on that:
It is true that the randomness of mines is influences the game a lot, although generally games are still quite skill focused I think. Often when you don't have mana, you have oil atleast, so mech is a valid path. You don't need mana for good eco btw, actually lurkers/mutas/mules are a waste of resources for income, and better eco is achieved by sending roaches/helions/laserbots/queens. Usually you would only want to send lurker/muta/void if you are trying to hurt/finish the opponent. Simple calculation: 8 lurkers (200food+100mana)=+56 income 11 roaches+ 2 queens (198food+100mana)= 71.5 income
Trust me on this (I always have between 200-200 and 350-350 eco on wave 30 or so, depending what style I play).
I have played a lot of inhouse games (all players around 1800+ elo) and I think RNG resources don't affect the game that much, generally the most skilled team wins from what i've seen. We have proposed in the past to mirror the resources of both teams in their base (player 1 have same res as player 5, player 2 same res as player 6 etc.), but zolden didn't like the idea, and maybe he was right in that dunno.
I agree regarding elo and newcomers, if you want to work on your elo I woulden't recommend to play by yourself. Since it is a 4v4 you simply are too dependant on your teammates, I myself usually have one decent teammate, so we can win games even with noobs in team, and still face challenges. This should generally be enough to get a decent elo, by playing mainly x2 premade, I managed to get 2000+ elo on both EU and US. I agree that elo system can use some changes, but i don't see this happening anytime soon.
Feel free to add me ingame: EU: [PiuPew]LongTerm charactercode 914 US: [Mortis]LongTerm charactercode 657
Hai EveryBoty! You may have seen me playing at US or randomly at EU servers.
In these days almost everyone is doing eco builds, some are good, some are really sh---y, but they are doing it. Before people didn't use that tricks since they couldn't get so fast to eco, but with Necro class, you can start after round 6-7 and sell off before 2nd boss. (round 16)
With simple adjustment it might be little differently, like: -Slow down MG attack rate -Slow down MG attack rate updates 0.25 secs to 0.1-0.15 secs/ upgrade. -Make speed reduce update little bit less slowing, since single MG can easily kill 7 upped Robotrons or Sun Idols before they can even shoot to base.
These should do the trick (or could be nice to try out) and it shouldn't effect so much on early waves, of course you might need to use turbo faster ¶=c)
Its pretty clear tho that something needs to be done, to turn the game back on right tracks.
-LittleBunny
(Edited some text, added something more & made it little clearer.)
Haha ), who can defeat that Longtearm's Army with other strategy? No one! i'm sure that at the current moment, only Longtearm and few people i know can do that such big army in his screenshot. They are "Richman" "Baovebangai" "ChinesePVP" "Longtearm" and later are Longtearm's friends, and they are playing the same style, same way, same strategy.
I'm "baovebangai", i'm Longtearm's game friend. We mastered this game because of some unbalanced game features, that why we get that big army, big income (about +300 +300), we dont play the normal way that other people do. And now i would say this game is unbalanced: We always choose Necro or Melee (Mostly Necro), choosing other races is very hard to make that eco and army <--- so that is unbalanced race thing. Some strategy secrets are to do the upgraded mine guard, build an very Early Rexxar then sell him at wave 16, or Sell everything at wave 8 if u get an oil mine at start.
To master the game, You need to know and understand some unbalanced sending creeps (which creep is worth sending for income than other?), unbalanced army units (which unit is more powerful but cheaper or easy to get than the other?). I did quite a lot of maths and i know exactly how unbalance they are. I hope the game's creator will create more new strategies and balance the game better . But i'm not sure T_T sorry for my very bad english.
On May 04 2014 10:35 ldiunyh wrote: Haha ), who can defeat that Longtearm's Army with other strategy? No one!
Answer is MG.
Yeah, mostly people are choosing Necro because it gives you guarantee subdulak. Subdulak is the life elixir of end game, i did once ask from Zolden why every endgame units need sub, since back in old days it wasnt so common to get as it's now (might be just because necro class), but all he said was there was some reason, i don't remember.
Anyways as you said, there's a lot to balance, we will see where it goes, atleast great game so far.
Hi LittleBunny! do u still play the game ? Yah, we always choose Necro to get sub, we use sub to upgrade mine guard actack speed - get Defense Drone +50 damage Reward - get powerful units such a Anubis or SunIdol or Conjurer.
LittleBunny, i remember when we was playing with each other ) It was February as i remember, those days were so much fun. U were partying with the Piu Piu Clan and i was on my own- trying to carry all the waves and did bulding units so hard to carry for the team, my brain worked very hard... and we also did chat so fun in the game. Now i played the mine guard strategy that they call Eco and i did discussing with LongTearm a lot, he is a really hardcore player.
After i researched that Strategy, the game becomes so easy and boring, the game becomes robotic - i play that same strategy for 1000 games and because there are no other good strategies as that strategy. That is a quite perfect strategy which maybe makes the game boring. I m going to quit the game, i will miss that funny time and u guys ).
Yeah, still playing... At this time eco/base style is most efficient, but i really hope MG will be nerfed a bit, could really change gamestrats. Now when you play against decent players most of the games will be tie because of base defs, that really kills that much stuff.
This thread seems to have died, for anyone still playing or new(er) players I have 5 "pro tips/tricks"
1: Save laser after every wave, check if you need to either laser sends or wave units not only your lane but also your neighbor as he might have a 2 laser send with 1 construction yard. If the answer is no, laser rocks! (keep the mana cost in mind though) most common sends to laser: - acid ling 1 laser (unless it's a fatty in wave which requires 2) - marine 2 lasers - reaper 6 lasers - pink crystalisk 6 lasers
2: Burning laser (the metal reward) can be used to kill enemy boss waves. This ability does pure damage, scan the enemy lane during the boss wave click on it to check health, when below 1500hp you can kill it and steal ALL gold for that wave. ( this trick also works on wave 14 albinoroach acid ling with regular lasers, scan and laser acid lings for 6gold each)
3: Blast (food reward) this is imo the most underused ability, it can be used to snipe bosses as well but the 150 dmg gives a very small window of opportunity. Best use would be to kill enemy acid lings on wave 14, use on banelings on wave 18 or if small ghosts on wave 19.
-Fun fact on wave 18 ultralisk baneling, the banelings ONLY give gold when you "kill them" either with an ranged tower, laser or blast ability. Once they blow up on your tanks, they are worthless giving 0 gold. Also note that the front line of banelings give +6gold the 2nd line of banelings +8gold so when you laser try hitting the ones in the back. Keep in mind that each baneling requires 2 lasers to kill. (Edit: the gold from banelings varies per game just as you get large or small wave units, some banelings give the same gold no matter if they are in the front or in the back)
4: I know most people like to send on wave 1 (before wave 1 starts) i.e. I find 1 mana so I send 2 dronelings. This gives me +1.4gold, but the opponent receives 2 dronelings in his/her wave and gets +4 gold that wave. Since most builders usually end up with 6gold left after they build a tower and take their mines the +2 to +4 gold they get from the early sends basically grants them one additional mine. Which at that time costs 8 or 10 gold. Sending right after the wave starts solves this problem. you still get the +1.4gold at the same time as the previous method, but you deny the enemy the extra mine.
- If with a "good" friend you can also opt to laser his wave 1 units when you didn't receive 1-2 sends this should give you +2 gold and allows you to build an extra mine in most builds. ( don't try this in a pub game, people get mad and with good reason)
5: You can share any resource with a teammate (or enemy by accident) when you both have a construction yard in range of the mine you want to share and take it at the exact same time. This takes some practice but can be done with 100% success rate. If in pub with people who have a decent number of games played or fairly high elo, chances are they know how to share. Just ask and type the time i.e. 3:15, once agreed take mine at 3:15 and voila twice the resource for your team.
Here's several replays of a pretty good player in case anyone wants to get some. http://sc2aos.com/ru/kak-igrat-v-mines-and-magic.html This page is in russian, but u can simply click the links. Mines and Magic op fight.zip - is a replay of 1800+ elo players. Pretty epic game.
Hi everyone, when i was loading the map in mines and magic i got a fail, and after this my rewards and games was reset to 0, i had like 350 games played, 1810 of elo and lvl 4 of rewards, how can i fix this problem ? or as I can do to stop it happening again ?
I want to know which file stores the information about games playes, elo to make a backup. Ty
Hi guys! long time no see, is there anyone else playing this game? i've just made my good army when i was playing 3 AIs vs 4 Humans here is the screenshots: (After i killed the first dragon)
Some games befor i had one against 4 eco player which stoped defending waves from lvl 9 on and defed everything with drones - all of them were in lategame able to have massive mines, early expansions and mass gold income to hold the last waves easy and win the game with endgame units. Kinda obvious that this kind of games shouldnt take place since ignoring all waves and only build for last wave is in my eyes not goal of the map...
On September 21 2014 00:34 Erpel wrote: NERF MINING DRONES, ECO PLAY DESTROYS GAMES.
Some games befor i had one against 4 eco player which stoped defending waves from lvl 9 on and defed everything with drones - all of them were in lategame able to have massive mines, early expansions and mass gold income to hold the last waves easy and win the game with endgame units. Kinda obvious that this kind of games shouldnt take place since ignoring all waves and only build for last wave is in my eyes not goal of the map...
you can do same in STD tho. n this map is based on STD. so....
On August 12 2014 09:01 ldiunyh wrote: Hi guys! long time no see, is there anyone else playing this game? i've just made my good army when i was playing 3 AIs vs 4 Humans here is the screenshots: (After i killed the first dragon)
I do dislike this eco strategy wich is getting quite popular.. When you have a lot of eco players in a game. The games drag on for atleast 1 hour and 15 minutes and I find myself just tediously waiting for the enemy minegaurds to finish the wave.
So theres that.. and when the minegaurds are upgraded enough.. this strategy is so safe and strong I feel like it just nullifies counterplay. I'm sending units only to get income. I feel like I should atleast be able to threaten the enemy with strong sends.
People who do the eco strat good, are also almost always gauranteed to win or get a tie even though I smashed their army post dragon.. because of their fully upgraded minegaurd.. and I feel like that's just not right.
Usually I check for new messages there. But I will read all stuff in this thread too.
The pause I had to make was because at some point I hated the game after almost a year of working on it, and then 3 months of everyday playing it to balance and fix. Needed a fucking rest.
Because it would most probably ruin the game. Cause I dont' know anyone who would share my vision of it. It's like if Shakespear asked someone to finish his "Hamlet" half way done. Or Leoneardo asked someone to finish his Mona Lisa.
On October 15 2014 18:11 Zolden_ wrote: Because it would most probably ruin the game. Cause I dont' know anyone who would share my vision of it. It's like if Shakespear asked someone to finish his "Hamlet" half way done. Or Leoneardo asked someone to finish his Mona Lisa.
I think you might have killed the player base by not updating the map though. I and many others went inactive due to lack of updates. Eco build was getting way too mainstream. However , I see you made some patches now so I will check out the game again
I dont know when you play but I get full 4v4 games fairly quick on EU server. I think it just got more popular and I see plenty of new players still trying to learn the game after 80~ games
You might be right. I have played some games now and popularity on EU server isn't bad. The clan that I founded in the past, PiuPew, seems to have died pretty much though. Only several players in the clan online lately.
I also find it hard to find decent opponents... everyone seems so noob 0.0
Ok I have played games for past few days again. I think that I can say with certainty that I still belong to the top players. We should arrange some inhouse games with top players from US and EU soon.
There are still some veteran players that I see frequently. but yeah 60% of the time it's a noobfest hopefully they will learn soon and stick around lol.
Count me in for the inhouse games if you need people. I'm no god at mines and magic but playing with beginners all the time and ending up 2v4ing or whatever is pretty lame. Should I add you ingame?
I will be organizing a Tournament. I would really like Zolden to be involved, It would be good for the game. Maybe in game skin reward. I am thinking teams of 6 max 2 subs/4players. Maybe after the holidays. I will make up some graphics and site for it if Ziolden endorses it. I have casters who wont be able to cast all the games but the ones people might want to see. I will be posting more. Zolden you know me this is Reborn you have added.
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