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Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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Caviar
Profile Joined April 2011
70 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-09 17:39:31
April 03 2013 21:49 GMT
#1
[image loading]

Working Title
Author: Caviar
Players: 2
Size: 168x126 (Playable)
Bases: 12

Textures;
[image loading]

The maps still young.
I'm simply looking for suggestions, balance issues. You know feedback.

UPDATE: Published to NA servers
-Narrowed amount of space reapers can get into main
- Changed high ground around 3rd
- Fixed pathing around overall map
- Visual Improvements

Also from here on I will be streaming my progress on future maps @ twitch.tv/caviiar
I will try to stream a new concept every wweek.

Snapshots
+ Show Spoiler +


Middle Tower
[image loading]
Third
[image loading]




EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-03 22:10:10
April 03 2013 22:08 GMT
#2
Very pretty map. The way you did the towers they'll be dead very quick, since it's only 300hp to kill the rocks. You might want to change the numbers on those, because this is basically a map with no towers (not that that's a bad thing).

The 4 bases are a little tightly clustered, pretty well defensible from the tower area. You might want to shrink/remove the hole next to the tower that creates a choke with the town hall a the base against the cliff. It looks like a 2ff chokepoint with a town hall there, which is pretty tight to try and defend.

Other than that this looks pretty cool. Check out aircooled's new map in the wip thread for another use of the collapsible towers.

Come to think of it, how do you feel about putting the towers in a pocket that can be closed off with the rocks instead of killing the tower? I think that'd be more interesting here and we haven't seen a good use of that except some crappy pre-beta blizzard maps that didn't really use it well.
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
moskonia
Profile Joined January 2011
Israel1448 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-03 22:26:41
April 03 2013 22:19 GMT
#3
Can we get a pic of that nat? It seems quite open, and while it is OK to have open naturals you need to have them close to the ramp, so you can wall off a side with a maximum of 2 3x3 buildings, preferably 1 2x2 and 1 3x3 buildings or less. Other than that the flow of the map seems good, there are no free expansions and there are enough open and choked areas to allow people to use their tactical skills properly. A very fine map for what I can see.

About the destructible towers, it is a nice idea, although it is not necessary to have them since they don't cover every path, I think removing the rocks would make it easier on players, which is nice, but of course having them gives extra strategy to be made. On that note I think that you should add rocks to some ramps in the middle, that would make early game battle tactics to be more effective while not touching lategame ability to travel through the areas without being forced into tiny chokes.

EDIT: EatThePath that sounds good, hopefully either the rock's health will be increased to 1500-2000 or it will be used in the way you described. By the way it was used on a different map other than the one from Blizzard, this map: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384261
Caviar
Profile Joined April 2011
70 Posts
April 03 2013 22:20 GMT
#4
On April 04 2013 07:08 EatThePath wrote:
Come to think of it, how do you feel about putting the towers in a pocket that can be closed off with the rocks instead of killing the tower? I think that'd be more interesting here and we haven't seen a good use of that except some crappy pre-beta blizzard maps that didn't really use it well.


The original version of this map I had it that way. I still might end up going back to that. It just seemed that if a team was able to destroy the original rocks then blocking off the tower wouldn't prove much use.

In its current state its really only there for the early game. By the time they are destroyed the third normal tower becomes more relevant in defending the 3rd and 6th.

Quakecomm
Profile Joined April 2012
United States344 Posts
April 03 2013 22:34 GMT
#5
Where is this map published? I'd love to test it. Looks good.
gorkey island is the only good map
Caviar
Profile Joined April 2011
70 Posts
April 03 2013 22:56 GMT
#6
On April 04 2013 07:34 Quakecomm wrote:
Where is this map published? I'd love to test it. Looks good.


Its private right now. But It will be published later this week on NA when I fix a few key things.
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
April 04 2013 00:35 GMT
#7
Very polished map, and I really like how the top of the map is layed out. The natural seems kinda open; maybe put rocks to make the top of the large entrance smaller initially, like that the player can better defend the ramp, and the bottom of the opening. The map is quite big, which is fine, but the bottom middle base, doesn't seem to contribute in the slightest to the map's synergy. It will probably almost never be taken, and troup movements through it would probably not happen often, since its not in the way of anything of tactical value. The map would probably be fine with having the middle bottom base completely removed, and replaced with empty space, and the lanes around it made into narrow paths leading into the back of the fifth bases.
OprahWindfury
Profile Joined April 2013
United States12 Posts
April 04 2013 01:17 GMT
#8
This map looks eerily like Habitation Station...

http://bit.ly/ZAItuh
People don't know what they like, they like what they know.
Caviar
Profile Joined April 2011
70 Posts
April 04 2013 01:22 GMT
#9
On April 04 2013 10:17 OprahWindfury wrote:
This map looks eerily like Habitation Station...

http://bit.ly/ZAItuh


I know. When I saw that map posted I almost decided to abandon this project because of the similarity.
Caviar
Profile Joined April 2011
70 Posts
April 04 2013 01:47 GMT
#10
Updated and published to NA servers
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
April 04 2013 02:16 GMT
#11
Well, they're pretty different for 2p mirror in concept and execution. Hopefully will try this out soon and see if I have any more feedback.
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
SidianTheBard
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2474 Posts
April 04 2013 02:19 GMT
#12
On April 04 2013 10:22 Caviar wrote:

I know. When I saw that map posted I almost decided to abandon this project because of the similarity.


I can see some similarities but nahhh, I'm glad you decided to keep working on this. I like the flow of the bases here and I like that there isn't any dead space at all really towards the middle of the map.

I'm a little worried it could be a bit too much open and therefore be way too strong for zergs? Besides the harassable third there doesn't seem to be many tight choke points for a protoss or terran to move their way through the map. Might want to make a few points more choked off.

I think I'd like if the whole lower level was completely sand/dirt. Over by the low ground 3rds they are back to the manmade stuff. I think I'd like it better and it might flow better if the whole lower level was just dirt/rocks/etc.

Lastly, I hate the gases on the 12 and 6 o'clock expansions. I never really liked those types of super vulnerable opposite side of the minerals gases. But it's just preference really.

Great work, looks amazing & it should play out perfectly.

Good job bud!
Creator of Abyssal Reef, Ascension to Aiur, Battle on the Boardwalk, Habitation Station, Honorgrounds, IPL Darkness Falls, King's Cove, Korhal Carnage Knockout & Moonlight Madness.
Fatam
Profile Joined June 2012
1986 Posts
April 04 2013 02:31 GMT
#13
I think it would play pretty differently than Habitation Station b/c of a few key paths being different.
+ it's a bit wider of a map and more open.

As far as improving the map, I would try to narrow a few areas (esp. the ramps to the 12/6 o'clock bases, to make them more appealing). Right now once you get outside your nat pretty much all the chokes and hallways are big and there's not much variety in size. I think (especially since highground matters less in SC2) it's important to have a variety of sized areas so that where the battle happens actually matters. Just my 2 cents though.

aesthetics/layout is pretty solid overall. look forward to how sexy it can look w/ more aesthetics added.

p.s. - it's hard to tell for sure, but it looks like it might have the 3 pylon block problem that Planet S had (where you can 3 pylon block despite the unbuildable plate being there) on the right side. On the left side the plate is on the opp side of ramp which prevents Nexus wall FFE. Nitpicky stuff but just something i noticed.


Search "FTM" in SC2 | Latest Maps: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/528528-2-ftm-siegfried-station http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/525489-2-ftm-crimson-aftermath http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/524737-2-ftm-grime
lost_artz
Profile Joined January 2012
United States366 Posts
April 04 2013 05:07 GMT
#14
On April 04 2013 10:22 Caviar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2013 10:17 OprahWindfury wrote:
This map looks eerily like Habitation Station...

http://bit.ly/ZAItuh


I know. When I saw that map posted I almost decided to abandon this project because of the similarity.


It's may be similar but overall this is much more refined, especially on the topic of aesthetics.
gronnelg
Profile Joined December 2010
Norway354 Posts
April 04 2013 07:54 GMT
#15
On April 04 2013 14:07 lost_artz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2013 10:22 Caviar wrote:
On April 04 2013 10:17 OprahWindfury wrote:
This map looks eerily like Habitation Station...

http://bit.ly/ZAItuh


I know. When I saw that map posted I almost decided to abandon this project because of the similarity.


It's may be similar but overall this is much more refined, especially on the topic of aesthetics.

This map also is more open, and less chokey, which is a good thing. I like this map.
Lulzez || My stream: http://www.twitch.tv/gronnelg
CycoDude
Profile Joined November 2010
United States326 Posts
April 04 2013 08:46 GMT
#16
i don't like the base between the watch tower and main. it's a huge area for reapers to come into the main, and you can put siege tanks there and easily siege the main. i would like an impassible area filling that space.

i don't like that "finger" behind the third's mineral line. again, i think this makes it too easy to harass that base (especially with siege tanks). i'd get rid of it and just expand that null zone that's already below it.
Caviar
Profile Joined April 2011
70 Posts
April 04 2013 13:38 GMT
#17
On April 04 2013 17:46 CycoDude wrote:
i don't like the base between the watch tower and main. it's a huge area for reapers to come into the main, and you can put siege tanks there and easily siege the main. i would like an impassible area filling that space.

i don't like that "finger" behind the third's mineral line. again, i think this makes it too easy to harass that base (especially with siege tanks). i'd get rid of it and just expand that null zone that's already below it.


Ive had similar concerns. I have a few ideas in the works on tweaking the third outside the base aswell as the "finger' area without streamlineing the map to much.
TheFish7
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States2824 Posts
April 04 2013 23:45 GMT
#18
Quite good overall IMO, although I also agree about the "finger" over the 3rd. very nice work using different textures sets and making it feel very natural. I feel that some of the configurations of the mineral lines could be improved.

Is the base between the main and the watchtowers 6m2g or am I seeing things?
~ ~ <°)))><~ ~ ~
Caviar
Profile Joined April 2011
70 Posts
April 06 2013 19:19 GMT
#19
New version uploaded
Im taking a break from working on this map to work on a few other projects continued feedback is appreciated though
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