On April 03 2013 06:08 sunshinefag wrote: It looks really really good. But I dont like that you have to FFE with nexus. Its extremely hard to hold any early roach pressure, and the nestea spine crawler pressure is almost impossible. I belive thats why Dual Site had to be removed from the gsl ladder pool?
The nestea spine crawler thing shouldn't ever be a problem now with the photon nexus and roach pressure is probably the same I'd say. I wouldn't change the map drastically to fix something that we have no clue whether it's broken in HoTS yet :p
On April 03 2013 06:08 sunshinefag wrote: It looks really really good. But I dont like that you have to FFE with nexus. Its extremely hard to hold any early roach pressure, and the nestea spine crawler pressure is almost impossible. I belive thats why Dual Site had to be removed from the gsl ladder pool?
The nestea spine crawler thing shouldn't ever be a problem now with the photon nexus and roach pressure is probably the same I'd say. I wouldn't change the map drastically to fix something that we have no clue whether it's broken in HoTS yet :p
@Existor I'm sure if nobody does an infested space station maybe I'll try to do one myself. No guarantees though.
@KJSharp, Callynn, Caviar Thanks, appreciate the kind words.
@sunshinefag Basically what Qikz said. I'm hoping with the mothership core and the photon overcharge it "should" be okay. Although yeah, with HotS being new no one really knows. If it does prove to be a problem though I will easily change up the natural to make it safer for a protoss to FE at.
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Habitation Station has been uploaded to EU due to request.
I don't think that taking a natural would be too hard, but making a few adjustments might be good, although they might not be. If you choose to remain with the current format of the natural but want to make it slightly easier to hold you can do it so that you are able to wall off using a 2x2 building and a 3x3 building, you can do that by simply making the nat 1 square closer to the ramp. Another thing would be to close the tiny area between the gas and the wall behind it so that the only way to get behind the nat mineral line would be through it, this and the fact that 1 FF is able to close the gap between the gas and the nexus and you get that 1gate expo just became a bit safer while also making the nat more defendable in other matchups.
Overall I don't think that having to nexus wall is too bad, while as you see many people whine, its not that bad that a map requires you to play differently. and I think it will create more interesting games than the ones where no one makes a unit till 8 minutes.
Other than the nat the major thing noticeable is that there aren't many very open areas, this makes Zerg's life a bit hard, although it does favor the old BL infestor style, which has pretty much died, so its good. The bad thing is that it made Tempest High Templar stronger, which imo is really overpowered atm, but maybe with good abuse of this terrain and the size of the map it will be possible to outmaneuver the Protoss, we will have to see
Besides the design of the map which I really like, the aesthetics are fabulous, the concept of the map is unique and I really hope that this map get picked by a tourny since it really looks good, great job!!
This map has that, a beautiful environment, correct use of mixed tilesets and correct base positioning in an original way. The lighting needs some attention (my units had a strange white glow in the natural on the north-west side of the map).
However, there is one problem with this map: It's all too choked. The routes are all narrow and there are plenty of counterattack paths, but each and every one of them can be easily shut down by tanks. It's a shame to see that the whole map is actually perfect if the environment was slightly more spacious. Especially as Zerg getting surrounds are going to be impossible - air play will be very dominant as a result.
The north attack path is extremely narrow, only idiots would attack there (and I did, but againt a no-brain AI). This is an urgent matter that needs fixing.
I have dropped the replay here, a test match against an AI because no one was online at the time.
Whisplash, you can with a nexus with only 2 buildings so its OK, also with a pylon behind the gas you should be able to block the entrance remaining with only 1 FF and that means 1 gate expands are more than viable, especially with the msc added defense. As I have said before, I would love to see the area behind the gas blocked and the area between the expo and the ramp also shortened a bit, but even without these it is still not that hard to keep the expo alive versus attacks.
Basically FFE is possible but is not encouraged because pools that would normally simply make you wall off before the expo will now be able to do a lot of damage if you wanted to go Nexus 1st. I don't mind that FFE is less powerful and neither should you, as Protoss is strong enough versus Zerg that are not Life and even if they weren't FFE is a boring build and is one of the reasons for the bad metagame that was the end of WoL. Having maps that favor certain builds make for more mind games and interesting dynamics between players who know each other, which is pretty fun to watch imo.
@Moskonia You're last paragraph makes me happy! I'm actually looking at the map in the editor right now and I could easily slide the naturals up 1 hex to you can wall with a pylon + gateway. I'm debating about doing it, in one way it's great, but another way would most protoss even want to wall with a pylon since it's so easily bustable? /shrug It is definitely a possibility though.
@Whiplash As I just said above, I can move the minerals back a little bit, but I'm still unsure if it's really needed. With the mothership core as well as Photon Overcharge do you still think it's too difficult to hold? Also, with proper building placement you can wall off the entire natural with 3 3x3 buildings and 1 2x2 building. It actually would make sense with what Moskonia was saying about blocking off the area behind the gas, because then you wouldn't need the extra 2x2 building.
@Callynn As I said in the PM, thank you. I didn't notice the lighting at all when playing, although I play protoss so it probably wasn't as bad, but watching your replay I noticed it instantly. I was stumped at first, but immediately found the doodad that was causing the problem. (The starship wing wasn't lowered enough and therefore generating light on the surface lol)
I've got a few ideas of how I could try to widen the area out. Possibly making some of the upper ramps 3x instead of 2x wide. Possibly removing the d-rocks from the middle ramps to allow more attack paths and finally reworking some of the high ground above the 3rd to make it a little less choked. Although, these are just ideas floating in my head atm, we'll see if I like it after I get some time to mess around with it in the editor.
That isn't a wall off lol... a walloff max should be a gate, pylon, core, and potentially another pylon if it is a wide ramp. What you are suggesting here is a bit obscene, a change really does need to happen...
On April 04 2013 14:50 Whiplash wrote: That isn't a wall off ...
I can't really see anything wrong with the wall off style shown in this picture. + Show Spoiler +
Reminds me of the wall off that protoss did near the start of WoL on maps like Xel Naga Caverns or Shattered Temple.
Toss would either forge expand with building placement that looked similar, or sentry expo placing their second two gates to finish off their wall to their nexus. Sure it is not what we are used to currently on most maps, I don't see how it is non-viable however.
Map looks really cool, love the aesthetics! The layout looks really cool, all those ramps could make for some interesting gameplay!
On April 04 2013 14:50 Whiplash wrote: That isn't a wall off lol... a walloff max should be a gate, pylon, core, and potentially another pylon if it is a wide ramp. What you are suggesting here is a bit obscene, a change really does need to happen...
Have you honestly played the map enough to judge that it's to hard for protoss to early expand?
Edit: Not sure about the 12 o clock base, perhaps it would be better if it had ramps leading down to it?
On April 04 2013 14:50 Whiplash wrote: That isn't a wall off ...
I can't really see anything wrong with the wall off style shown in this picture. + Show Spoiler +
Reminds me of the wall off that protoss did near the start of WoL on maps like Xel Naga Caverns or Shattered Temple.
Toss would either forge expand with building placement that looked similar, or sentry expo placing their second two gates to finish off their wall to their nexus. Sure it is not what we are used to currently on most maps, I don't see how it is non-viable however.
That's fine, it's like antiga sort of. Gate with MSC would be better than forge probably, in terms of allowing you to be greedy. But plays out differently obv. The forge-nexus style of walloff leaves you vulnerable to speedling stuff that's actually less dangerous with msc + sentries quicker. Either way roaches are much better than usual but it's kind of a long walk so it's fine I think.
[edit] Also why not just wall at the forward choke like this? The distance for the 2nd route is enormous, giving you plenty of time to put up the second walloff if needed against lings. Against roaches it's way too long for that to be an effective 2prong or rush route, and with photon overcharge and FF it wouldn't matter anyway. + Show Spoiler +
having checked, photon overcharge doesn't quite cover that 2nd walloff
[edit2] Okay I checked things out in game and I'm sure a forward wall is fine with proper scouting. The map is a lot smaller than I thought so the rush distance is actually pretty close. All the pathways are either skinny or have nasty chokepoints. Overall the map is just very chokey / not open. Compared to the current ladder maps it's like playing in an air duct. This map would be instant veto for zergs. It's horrible to conceive, but if you added 8-12 squares horizontal dimension and maybe 4 vertical (enlarging various pathways here and there) this map would instantly be a lot better -- it would have no faults afaik. Right now it's a major flaw though.
Big update to most of the center of this map. Have added new stuff to the OP.
Changes: Many ramps around the map have been changed to not be so choked. Top Middle section changed to make it not be so choked. Top XWT Removed. Middle XWT Added.
I've decided not to mess with the base layouts yet but after plenty of games and feedback the overall map was waaaay to choked off, hence why I opened it up quite a bit.
Hey Sidian, atm i'm working on re-texturing my Vol II maps, more specifically Past Glories to look more jungle like/alive, and because you nailed the theme so well i don't think i'll be able to escape completely from the shadow of Habitation Station, but hell i'll try!
Also any tips for the grass and ground? you used the best textures u.u
Oh lord, now I'm going to have to update the OP when I get home. Dammit Uvantak! haha.
Pretty sure it's just the zerus dirt and zerus slime for the textures I used on the lower level. Then just use a lot of cliff vines, ground vines, zerus plants, zerus plantlife (small/medium/large). I'll get back to you about the ground rocks and the geyser doodads, I don't recall which ones they are but I just lowered them by quite a bit so only the top is sticking out. (Also, gotta make sure to remove their footprint or else you couldn't build on them) Speaking of lowering the doodad, you can do a lot of unique stuff by lowering them or now using pitch/roll on them. For instance, take the zerus large tree, put it ontop of your minerals, turn the footprint off and then lower it so only the top is sticking out, no clue how it'd look but it might be a better type of "leaf" doodad rather then just using the grass textures. Zerus LoSB look very sweet as well on cliff walls and lowered a bit.
Actually instead of using zerus stuff I'm pretty certain Bel'shir or even Aiur grass/dirt textures would work just as well.
I'll bump this again in an hour or so with a re-updated OP as well as letting you know. If you'd like I can just send you a link to DL the map, I'm fine with that as well.
Nah, don't worry much about it, the pics you posted in the OP are enough, also these Zerus plants are soooo nice to work with, the map will have a lot of bel'shir/aiur/zerus stuff mixed in and i'm trying/forcing myself to use more the pitch and roll tools but i just can't find a practical use for them atm, for me it's one of these tools that you know that have a bazillion possibilities like 3D printing for example but you just can't think a useful one other than printing some weird looking shower curtain rings.
Gimme a Working HDR Multiplier and a height tool and i'll be happy :D
kk, OP has been updated to what was submitted during TLMC3. As always, any feedback is appreciated! :D
On November 12 2013 04:32 EatThePath wrote: I have not once thought of 3D printing shower curtain rings, but now it will be the only thing I think of when that subject is brought up.
EPT
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