The distance between the main backdoor and the nat entrance is longer for the defender than the attacker, either fix this problem or just remove the backdoor.

TheFish7

United States2824 Posts

November 16 2012 00:46 GMT

#23

Gold bases in the middle is imba because of ZvP... , Z will take a gold as their 3rd base against a FFE protoss, the toss now has to deal with like 25% more roach/ling aggression.

Otherwise, this is really quite good. The potential for a 4th base makes antiga a much better concept imo. Definitely an improvement. I am wondering if you can sneak around the towers at the 4th?

also, what made you decide to rotate the whole map like 30 degrees CCW?

Quakecomm

United States344 Posts

November 16 2012 01:27 GMT

#24

I like it. Take antiga and make it easier to take a fourth by making it two player. Good job!

SiskosGoatee

Albania1482 Posts

November 16 2012 01:32 GMT

#25

On November 16 2012 09:46 TheFish7 wrote:
Gold bases in the middle is imba because of ZvP... , Z will take a gold as their 3rd base against a FFE protoss, the toss now has to deal with like 25% more roach/ling aggression.

I don't think so necessarily, a gold base yields as much income as a normal base because it ha only 6 patches, you just need viewer drones to saturate it, there's also only one gas, it's a risk/reward ratio because good luck holding that base against a sentry/immortal all in.

If it was that imbalanced ZvP the Antiga on the ladder, which has a high yield would be unwinnable for PvZ, I've noticed no such thing myself.

The only real problem that I see happening with that gold is TvZ, without ranged units Z cannot deny mining, however I purposefully designed the map to be able to do counter attacks around it quite easily.

I am wondering if you can sneak around the towers at the 4th?

In what way? You can of course sneak past every tower theoretically unless its vision covers the entire map.

also, what made you decide to rotate the whole map like 30 degrees CCW?

The layout just fit that way I guess, I tend to start executing ideas that I have from the centre out, it just happen to fit that way together with the backdoor ramp changes.

Maybe I should doodad it up and add no fly zones though.

IndyO

392 Posts

November 16 2012 03:15 GMT

#26

I'm curious as to how the gold base in the middle works out for balance now. Terran often feels weaker in the lategame in all matchups, so I suppose it could work out.

Fluid

Canada136 Posts

November 16 2012 03:34 GMT

#27

On November 16 2012 12:15 IndyO wrote:
I'm curious as to how the gold base in the middle works out for balance now. Terran often feels weaker in the lategame in all matchups, so I suppose it could work out.

That's not really the problem. The problem is that whoever has map control also gets a free gold base, so that makes it almost impossible for the defending player to win.

Timetwister22

United States538 Posts

November 16 2012 04:18 GMT

#28

Winner gold bases need to go. I don't mind gold bases appearing in maps again with the mule nerf, however they need to be designed in such a way that if a player already has map control, they don't get gold bases with it. In other words, put golds along the sides with big vulnerabilities that you'd have to give up center map control to defend. Also, I'd like to see the fourth be dropped onto the low ground instead of the high ground, as well as the backdoor into the main be removed. This map has the same blink and drop vulnerabilities as Antiga, so there is really no reason to have an offensive back door. Aside those however, it's a pretty decent map.

SiskosGoatee

Albania1482 Posts

November 16 2012 05:27 GMT

#29

On November 16 2012 13:18 Timetwister22 wrote:
Winner gold bases need to go. I don't mind gold bases appearing in maps again with the mule nerf, however they need to be designed in such a way that if a player already has map control, they don't get gold bases with it.

I disagree, this is the entire reward of getting map control as in asserting yourself at the centre that I like. That you have the centre far from means that you have 'won' by any stretch, it's a decision you make because it's not the optimal position tot take to defend your main and natural at all, it leaves them quite vulnerable to counter attacks.

In other words, put golds along the sides with big vulnerabilities that you'd have to give up center map control to defend.

This was tried, and often just meant hatch first to the gold because you need to get out of position so much to punish it that you leave yourself open for a counter especially on map with high CS like this one.

Also, I'd like to see the fourth be dropped onto the low ground instead of the high ground

This is honestly a pretty interesting idea that could probably work out well.

as well as the backdoor into the main be removed. This map has the same blink and drop vulnerabilities as Antiga, so there is really no reason to have an offensive back door.

I feel the backdoor helps to defend drops rather than making them harder to defend wouldn't you think? If you break down your own rocks you can very easily just walk into your main to defend a drop rather than having to walk all the way around, which is part of their purpose, the other part is to threaten backstabs when someone vies for control of the centre to mine from the gold.

SiskosGoatee

Albania1482 Posts

November 20 2012 16:09 GMT

#30

Experimenting with a lowground fourth:

[image loading]

Aesthetics are still a little bit rough of course.

AssyrianKing

Australia2122 Posts

November 24 2012 21:38 GMT

#31

I kind of like the low ground 4th better, it makes it a little harder to defend which I like, but for Protoss it MIGHT be a problem. Please get rid of the gold bases, or make them 6g1hg, it just seems so random and is not balanced nor helps for interesting games

SiskosGoatee

Albania1482 Posts

November 24 2012 22:45 GMT

#32

Well, there's nothing random of course, it's supposed to be a high risk/high reward base, I'm not sure what makes that 'imbalanced. Unlike on Antiga it's also not a winners base because there's purposefully a lot of room to counter attack around it. If they weren't gold there would be r no good reason to ever take them. It's very easy to deny mining with a single ranged unit on the other side, doesn't even need to be on the high ground, you can easily kill the gas as well.

WniO

United States2706 Posts

November 25 2012 02:28 GMT

#33

this layout looks really good, nice job. maybe too many small tiles for textures, but it adds some contrast.

iMrising

United States1099 Posts

November 25 2012 04:25 GMT

#34

I feel like the third base is even harder to take now, and having a hole in your main base is a TERRIBLE idea, and tournaments will never use it. But I really really like the concept of the new Antiga because right now, the old antiga is kind of boring :|