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[M] (2) Geo Point - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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Drake Merrwin
Profile Joined July 2012
Canada130 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-20 11:56:08
October 20 2012 11:55 GMT
#21
On October 19 2012 03:29 Samro225am wrote:
so you build a PvP-only map? i mean this is cool, but it needs to be mentioned!


????? I did.

On September 15 2012 09:17 Drake Merrwin wrote:The main-natural was based off OxyGenesis' Uncanny Valley.

............

Features

- One force-field wide ramp leadng into the natural. Safe for expanding in PvP.
- 1 sets of rocks and LOS blockers defending the wide entrance into the main. (You cannot warp past the rocks without vision)


How does ONE feature of the map define what the map is played for?

PS: If you actually read the OP then you would see that I worry plenty about the other match ups.
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-20 13:55:57
October 20 2012 13:55 GMT
#22
--- Nuked ---
Drake Merrwin
Profile Joined July 2012
Canada130 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-20 14:50:00
October 20 2012 14:47 GMT
#23
On October 20 2012 22:55 Barrin wrote:
The rush distance is ENORMOUS. Like really really really big. How big?

Why are all 4 entrances to the high ground pod positions blocked by rocks? Initially taking a 4th is going to be very hard.

Once you take the 4th, you also have a 5th and a 6th pretty much for free. You can put your army on the high ground pod and with just a little bit of scouting and minimal reaction time you can soundly defend all 6 of them without moving very much.

I'm sorry, but this is really bad. Good aesthetics though. Kinda like my first map ^^


WHAT? Non of the entrances of the pod are blocked. Those are LOS blockers. Those make it harder to get up there.

There are rocks at the gold that you can knock down to counter attack the 3rd.

Holy shit is the image not clear or something? WTF is going on?

PS: Can you link me to it. I wanna see your first map. =D
Drake Merrwin
Profile Joined July 2012
Canada130 Posts
October 26 2012 23:46 GMT
#24
Added video commentary.

Beez
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada18 Posts
October 27 2012 15:50 GMT
#25
seeing the map in game I don't really like it at all. my main issue is the 2 gold bases in the centre of the map. Since they are right beside each other if you take one you automatically get to take the other, which just seems stupid.

The map also looks very prone to 3-base all ins because the first 3 bases are so close and the others are too far away.
Drake Merrwin
Profile Joined July 2012
Canada130 Posts
October 28 2012 21:18 GMT
#26
v0.6
- Optimized foliage.
- Centre expansion completely reworked.

I think this change helps players expanding vertically while at the same time, breaking stalemates in split map scenarios.
RFDaemoniac
Profile Joined September 2011
United States544 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-06 22:05:06
November 06 2012 14:57 GMT
#27
What is the point of the LOSB on the ramps to the high ground pods? Ramps are already LOSB.

I like that you're thinking about additional incentives to take bases, but there are indeed some fundamental issues that other people have pointed out. I would recommend shortening the map considerably in order to reduce rush distances and make the map more compact in general (most of this could come out of the middle and the long paths to the gold bases). I would combine the two bases in the bottom right hand corner along the bottom, as they are currently both far away from the middle ground pod and close to each other, they have the issue of being hard to take at all but then easy to take both when you take one, as Barrin mentioned.

You could make the middle ground pod a high ground and therefore put the new combined corner base and the base just above the corner base right up against the high ground, again compressing the map and aiding with proportions, as well as solving this "hard base, free base" issue. Along this same line you could also make the middle area middle ground and push the edge of the third base terrain closer to the middle so that the base is still safe from siege tanks and such, but the map becomes more full and it helps zergs to defend this 3rd, encouraging an offensive push against a zerg to take a longer route in order to engage in a more favorable position/terrain structure (a very good thing imo).

I would also remove the bases from the center as they are essentially winners bases (both players can't each simultaneously hold one). I know that you wanted to encourage a choice between the gold and high yield gas bases in the center, but you don't achieve it here. I can't think of a modification that would work without having a map editor open, so I may come back to this later.

I would aso recommend spending some time working on your texturing around cliff edges. Usually mappers have a texture that they use on the top side of cliff edges that more closely resembles the cliff face, and use that to blend it in with the main texture on the high ground. You played around a little bit with semi-paths of cracked dirt, but this is neither subtle enough nor visible enough. Try using a more solid brush for the both the cracked dirt and the grass and instead of relying on blending try and work the edge of the grass texture so it looks like it could be growing out over the edge of the cracked dirt.

I like the semi-in-base expansion for PvP and don't think that it actually hurts other match ups, but would be happy to corrected on this point (Samro?).

I think the expansion path is actually pretty interesting and I may make a map re-working this into what I could see it being.

EDIT: See the map I posted in the WIP thread
Drake Merrwin
Profile Joined July 2012
Canada130 Posts
November 08 2012 12:43 GMT
#28
On November 06 2012 23:57 RFDaemoniac wrote:
What is the point of the LOSB on the ramps to the high ground pods? Ramps are already LOSB.

I like that you're thinking about additional incentives to take bases, but there are indeed some fundamental issues that other people have pointed out. I would recommend shortening the map considerably in order to reduce rush distances and make the map more compact in general (most of this could come out of the middle and the long paths to the gold bases). I would combine the two bases in the bottom right hand corner along the bottom, as they are currently both far away from the middle ground pod and close to each other, they have the issue of being hard to take at all but then easy to take both when you take one, as Barrin mentioned.

You could make the middle ground pod a high ground and therefore put the new combined corner base and the base just above the corner base right up against the high ground, again compressing the map and aiding with proportions, as well as solving this "hard base, free base" issue. Along this same line you could also make the middle area middle ground and push the edge of the third base terrain closer to the middle so that the base is still safe from siege tanks and such, but the map becomes more full and it helps zergs to defend this 3rd, encouraging an offensive push against a zerg to take a longer route in order to engage in a more favorable position/terrain structure (a very good thing imo).

I would also remove the bases from the center as they are essentially winners bases (both players can't each simultaneously hold one). I know that you wanted to encourage a choice between the gold and high yield gas bases in the center, but you don't achieve it here. I can't think of a modification that would work without having a map editor open, so I may come back to this later.

I would aso recommend spending some time working on your texturing around cliff edges. Usually mappers have a texture that they use on the top side of cliff edges that more closely resembles the cliff face, and use that to blend it in with the main texture on the high ground. You played around a little bit with semi-paths of cracked dirt, but this is neither subtle enough nor visible enough. Try using a more solid brush for the both the cracked dirt and the grass and instead of relying on blending try and work the edge of the grass texture so it looks like it could be growing out over the edge of the cracked dirt.

I like the semi-in-base expansion for PvP and don't think that it actually hurts other match ups, but would be happy to corrected on this point (Samro?).

I think the expansion path is actually pretty interesting and I may make a map re-working this into what I could see it being.

EDIT: See the map I posted in the WIP thread


Meh. You have some interesting points but you, like many, have failed to explain why a bigger map is bad. Non all in aggession is better and all ins are worse. I heard that's good.

In my testing the LOS blockers make the ramp far more of a challenge to move through and spreed creep up to. One of my zergs told me that it was to powerful because he had such a hard time getting his tumors onto the high ground vs hellons.

I see where you're coming from on the textures but the trees look like ass on the red. And I found that the more red I added the more it pushed away from the look I wanted. I still think the textures and simple and at times bland. Other suggestions are welcome.

The winners bases in the centre. Good point. I'll be back for that one.

The free island is something I want to remove but IDK what to do with that space as I do not want terrans to get away with shit in base trades. I might just path block the air space????

On November 06 2012 23:57 RFDaemoniac wrote:You could make the middle ground pod a high ground and therefore put the new combined corner base and the base just above the corner base right up against the high ground, again compressing the map and aiding with proportions, as well as solving this "hard base, free base" issue. Along this same line you could also make the middle area middle ground and push the edge of the third base terrain closer to the middle so that the base is still safe from siege tanks and such, but the map becomes more full and it helps zergs to defend this 3rd, encouraging an offensive push against a zerg to take a longer route in order to engage in a more favorable position/terrain structure (a very good thing imo).


I'm having trouble visualizing this. arg.

On November 06 2012 23:57 RFDaemoniac wrote:See the map I posted in the WIP thread


Why not just help me make it better? If you really want you can add me on skype. We could chat it out if you really wanna commit as much is to try and do it better your self. =(
RFDaemoniac
Profile Joined September 2011
United States544 Posts
November 08 2012 19:07 GMT
#29
Bigger maps actually make non all in aggression worse because there is a much bigger defenders advantage re unit production. It also is a significant buff to zerg for the same reason, since zergs often delay unit production until an opponent moves out. One could argue that this is made up for by the presence of such extreme chokes on the map but the zerg style that is powerful nowadays is Infestor/Broodlord, which doesn't really weaken with chokes and is probably in fact buffed by the air space that you create with these chokes. You could argue that the combination is too slow to be as affective on such a large map but this will just lead to a base trade which is fine for a zerg because they can carry crawlers with them and is generally undesirable imo.

See my version for the implementation of the combined corner bases without too much air space, as well as the implementation of a mid ground middle and high ground pods (using all 3 levels of terrain, low, mid, and high instead of just low and mid). I changed the main/nat setup but you should see where they fit in terms of your map quite easily.

Part of why I made a version was to show you the changes that I suggested, but I also think that open source is the best way to produce the best of anything, and seeing as I liked some of your ideas but not others I decided to take it into my own hands.

I've PMed for skype details and would definitely be down to talk in more detail.
Drake Merrwin
Profile Joined July 2012
Canada130 Posts
December 23 2012 08:25 GMT
#30
v1.0
- Complete rework of the island and rich gas layout. Anti 4 gate layout updated for HotS (added building blockers).

Now the only problem with the map is immortal sentry. But I think that will be a problem no matter what. Blizzard likes to keep units that are bad for the game no matter how many more qualified people say other wise. =(
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