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Aotearoa39261 Posts
After around a week of judging and play testing, I'm finally ready to announce the winners of this contest. First of all, let me remind you what the submissions were (with before and after shots!)
+ Show Spoiler [Entries] +| Mappers | Old | New |
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scorp
Timetwister22 |  |  | NewSunshine
iGrok |  |  | chuky
Johanaz |  |  | Syphon8
monitor |  |  | TibblesEvilCat
IronManSC |  |  | eTcetRa
Ragoo |  |  | MarcusRife
Meltage |  |  | TheFish7
Namrufus |  |  | Aircooled
Gfire |  |  | Rkynick
IceToad |  |  | OxyGensis
Mereel |  |  | SigmaFiE
NullCurrent |  |  |
Before I give you the results, let me first go over the judging process. Firstly, the judges for this month were myself, Nightmarjoo and NrGmonk. Both Nightmarjoo and monk are very strong players on the ladder and contribute significantly to the community in one way or another. If you've been on TL in the past year, you're probably familiar with both of them by now anyway  .
We scored the maps as we always do, taking into consideration all the factors (balance, design and so on) but we singled out originality as a key part of the map. After all, the goal of this was to take the ideas of a map and try to refine and bring them out in a polished end product. After this was done, it was quite clear what our favorites were.
I took our list of favorites and play tested them with a bunch of my friends on battle.net - all of whom are mid-high masters. After playtesting with them, two candidates emerged for the top prizes. Finding it incredibly difficult to distinguish between the two, I turned te tree.hugger to help me break the tie. He, after all, is incredibly knowledgeable about the game. After a fairly lengthy discussion, we settled on our winner and second place.
Before I announce the results, the judges did feel that every map could be further improved upon. Even our winners had some problems which would need addressing for tournament play. Without further ado, here are the winners:
MotM: ProAm Runner-UpFissureby OxyGenesis and Mereel
While placing fourth after the initial point scoring round, upon play testing the map created incredibly dynamic games. Yet, it was still standard enough to be compatible with todays metagame. There are some serious concerns about PvZ balance on this map, but overall it's conceptually very interesting and makes for entertaining games. This fact made it stand out for playtesters, and consequently scored more highly than other maps that have more predictable balance.
MotM: ProAm WinnerOrbit Brutusby eTcetRa and Ragoo
Orbit Brutus was the clear winner after the point scoring round, and playtesting justified it's high place. Quirks like the LoS blocker behind the natural were fun, and the tactical use of highground was appreciated. The map is a bit too big, but as it stands it would be a playable tournament map and would produce good games. The map is a worthy winner.
Thank you for everyone who participated! I hope that this experience was a good one and that even if you weren't selected that you can learn something from this (like how to take a concept and refine it by comparing before/after pictures). The goal of this contest, from my point of view, was to help develop talent within the map making community and try to spread sound map making knowledge further than just the top teams. I think this contest was a good first step towards that, and hopefully the quality of your average map on these forums will go up.
Congrats once again to eTcetRa and Ragoo!
Plexa
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Could we have the ranking list? Also is it possible to have either the replays and some comment on the maps we work on?
I would like to help fix even more Rkynick's map.
Edit: Also congratz to the winner and the runner-up.
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lets do that again next month, way more fun then normal motms
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My favorite one won, gratz to eTcetRa and Ragoo.
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Johanaz is a hero for such an undertaking.
Grats to etcetra and Ragoo though! I love the design of Brutus.
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Congrats to to etcetra and ragoo. Well done.
I really did enjoy this motm, it would be cool to do more stuff like this in the future.
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Damn the second one looks so sick, fissure looks pretty bad to me tbh, but maybe thats just because im zerg.
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On August 11 2012 11:48 Terranlover wrote:lets do that again next month, way more fun then normal motms
But next month was already last month -.-
Anyway, even thou the only map I forgot entirely about won, I cant say Im would be mad of results.
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Congrats to the winners, they're both worthy of it. I enjoyed this month (or two) quite a bit!
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Yup, grats to the winners, they deserve it.
Out of curiousity, are the amateur winners considered as non-amateurs in future ProAms?
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On August 11 2012 16:56 ScorpSCII wrote:
Yup, grats to the winners, they deserve it.
Out of curiousity, are the amateur winners considered as non-amateurs in future ProAms?
I have no idea
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One of the best maps won the thing, very nice. I do like Fissure as well. Its lacking doodads though (judging from the overview).
On August 11 2012 16:56 ScorpSCII wrote:
Yup, grats to the winners, they deserve it.
Out of curiousity, are the amateur winners considered as non-amateurs in future ProAms?
I really hope this was the last ProAm. Just look who won the thing: A guy who was actually not worse at mapmaking than the pro. I don´t see any major changes at all.
I hope future TL map contests will be more like the first contest.
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Yeah Pro am kinda sucks, we need normal Tournament.
The amateurs can just ask pros anytime, usually they provide good feedback.
Also we need better judges, which means Pros has to be the judges, but when doing a pro am, the pros aren't judging. 
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Nobody should congratulate me here, I did comparatively little with my map. eTcetRa is a good enough mapmaker so that he could execute by himself and the map was quite good in layout before.
Unfortunately I think the map is still too big as Plexa also pointed out and the dead space corners still bug me, but I'm convinced that if eTcetRa will continue mapmaking in the future he won't make the same mistakes and work a bit tighter. He already made this map quite a bit tighter as well 
Congrats to Mereel and OxyGenesis for making a cool map and really improving the old one, also the aesthetics give me such a nice warm feeling which barely any SC2 map has.
edit: Big shoutout to my personal top 3: Atomic Version by Syphon8 and monitor, Ancient Fates by Rkynick and Icetoad and Tainted Underworld by Timetwister and ScorpSCII
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On August 11 2012 18:15 Aunvilgod wrote:One of the best maps won the thing, very nice. I do like Fissure as well. Its lacking doodads though (judging from the overview). Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 16:56 ScorpSCII wrote:
Yup, grats to the winners, they deserve it.
Out of curiousity, are the amateur winners considered as non-amateurs in future ProAms? I really hope this was the last ProAm. Just look who won the thing: A guy who was actually not worse at mapmaking than the pro. I don´t see any major changes at all. I hope future TL map contests will be more like the first contest.
Any TL contest will be more like TLMC yes. But this was a 'fun' MotM to put in between the regular editions of it no harm in a little variety, right?
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On August 11 2012 19:23 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 18:15 Aunvilgod wrote:One of the best maps won the thing, very nice. I do like Fissure as well. Its lacking doodads though (judging from the overview). On August 11 2012 16:56 ScorpSCII wrote:
Yup, grats to the winners, they deserve it.
Out of curiousity, are the amateur winners considered as non-amateurs in future ProAms? I really hope this was the last ProAm. Just look who won the thing: A guy who was actually not worse at mapmaking than the pro. I don´t see any major changes at all. I hope future TL map contests will be more like the first contest. Any TL contest will be more like TLMC yes. But this was a 'fun' MotM to put in between the regular editions of it no harm in a little variety, right?
In the end we got a ton of awesome maps and movement in the mapping scene. Although the concept was not good a map contest is better than nothing.
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On August 11 2012 19:23 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 18:15 Aunvilgod wrote:One of the best maps won the thing, very nice. I do like Fissure as well. Its lacking doodads though (judging from the overview). On August 11 2012 16:56 ScorpSCII wrote:
Yup, grats to the winners, they deserve it.
Out of curiousity, are the amateur winners considered as non-amateurs in future ProAms? I really hope this was the last ProAm. Just look who won the thing: A guy who was actually not worse at mapmaking than the pro. I don´t see any major changes at all. I hope future TL map contests will be more like the first contest. Any TL contest will be more like TLMC yes. But this was a 'fun' MotM to put in between the regular editions of it no harm in a little variety, right?
This is the only map contest with cash prizes so far right?
To me this was the most serious competition ever because of that. Or at least I took it that way.
I mean normal MotM has no prize at all, so even if you say money is not important and its for practice, its still more than normally.
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When I see the new maps that are being made every day I'm astonished because they make SC2 look so much better than the first few Blizzard maps did.
Very nice asthetics. I won't comment on the balance other than they look good to me.
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For me, this contest has been about learning, not winning. And in that regard I think the contest was a massive success. I never expected my map to even get picked, let alone finish as runner up, I remember drawing the layout on a scrap of paper and thinking 'one day I'll learn the editor and make that map'. Congrats to eTcetRa and Ragoo, Orbit Brutus is a seriously cool map. Personally I thought Scorp and TimeTwister were going to get it, but as I said before; this contest isn't about the winning. Overall, I think this contest has been great for all involved.
I'd like to echo Icetoad in asking for the replays, I would love to see some master level games on my map.
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On August 11 2012 20:34 OxyGenesis wrote:
For me, this contest has been about learning, not winning. And in that regard I think the contest was a massive success. I never expected my map to even get picked, let alone finish as runner up, I remember drawing the layout on a scrap of paper and thinking 'one day I'll learn the editor and make that map'. Congrats to eTcetRa and Ragoo, Orbit Brutus is a seriously cool map. Personally I thought Scorp and TimeTwister were going to get it, but as I said before; this contest isn't about the winning. Overall, I think this contest has been great for all involved.
I'd like to echo Icetoad in asking for the replays, I would love to see some master level games on my map.
Do not think I could have worded it better myself. I know I learned A LOT from NullCurrent in the short amount of time he and I had to work together -- and I DEFINITELY intend to take that and continue with it. Big congratulations to eTcetRa and Ragoo.
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Congratz! Well deserved.
eTcetRa can no longer call himself amateur, not that he ever should've, cause he was a sick nerd baller to begin with.
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Very well deserved, it really was my favourite all along. I'm glad it won!
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Congrats to our winners!
Any chance at seeing those replays?
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I feel like this was more of a aesthetic contest
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On August 12 2012 04:54 IronManSC wrote:
I feel like this was more of a aesthetic contest
electras map certainly has the very best aesthetics, but the runner up is not as great imo.
Additionally, the actual gameplay is pretty much impossible to test. All of these maps COULD be the best map ever made but we don´t know.
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good choices, cant wait for the next lot of proam.
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On August 12 2012 04:54 IronManSC wrote:
I feel like this was more of a aesthetic contest
lol
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United States10234 Posts
lol dat feel when everyone didn't wanna work with ragoo and he won :D jk we all love you ragoo <3
congratz to the winners! all the maps look really well done now and very good! everyone is a winner in my book!
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Plexa, I like your guys job with the maps so far. Thanks for spending time on this, new maps are a good thing.
Just wondering, what are the 1v1 leagues for the judges? Are we allowed to know? Thanks.
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On August 12 2012 05:37 Aunvilgod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2012 04:54 IronManSC wrote:
I feel like this was more of a aesthetic contest electras map certainly has the very best aesthetics, but the runner up is not as great imo. Additionally, the actual gameplay is pretty much impossible to test. All of these maps COULD be the best map ever made but we don´t know.
They say they tested it with high masters.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On August 12 2012 09:02 Freeze967 wrote:
Plexa, I like your guys job with the maps so far. Thanks for spending time on this, new maps are a good thing.
Just wondering, what are the 1v1 leagues for the judges? Are we allowed to know? Thanks.
NMJ/Monk/Me are all Masters. NMJ/Monk are far better than me though, probably high masters whereas these days I'm probably midmaster. The people I played them with are high master-mid master
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On August 12 2012 09:02 Freeze967 wrote:
Plexa, I like your guys job with the maps so far. Thanks for spending time on this, new maps are a good thing.
Just wondering, what are the 1v1 leagues for the judges? Are we allowed to know? Thanks.
I'm not sure that it's relevant, but this is me: http://sc2ranks.com/us/542163/SCSLyra.
I'd say though that of the judges my playing skill is the least important. I'd say that makes up maybe a third of my judging capacity and that my experience as a former (or current if monitor has his way) mapper and map analyzer makes up the rest. My understanding of the game only subtly effects what I make of a map, I think.
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Wasn't actually expecting this! There are so many good maps that come out of this motm.
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On August 12 2012 09:18 ArcticRaven wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2012 05:37 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 12 2012 04:54 IronManSC wrote:
I feel like this was more of a aesthetic contest electras map certainly has the very best aesthetics, but the runner up is not as great imo. Additionally, the actual gameplay is pretty much impossible to test. All of these maps COULD be the best map ever made but we don´t know. They say they tested it with high masters.
High EU Masters =|= highest level. You can´t compare EU high master Terrans to GSL Terrans, it is totally different. Even outside of Korea there are hardly any Terrans able to keep up.
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On August 12 2012 21:50 Aunvilgod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2012 09:18 ArcticRaven wrote:On August 12 2012 05:37 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 12 2012 04:54 IronManSC wrote:
I feel like this was more of a aesthetic contest electras map certainly has the very best aesthetics, but the runner up is not as great imo. Additionally, the actual gameplay is pretty much impossible to test. All of these maps COULD be the best map ever made but we don´t know. They say they tested it with high masters. High EU Masters =|= highest level. You can´t compare EU high master Terrans to GSL Terrans, it is totally different. Even outside of Korea there are hardly any Terrans able to keep up.
I dont think you need the highest level of players to notice everything in a map.
Anyway, even the highest level players of sc2 disagree on stuff, so its not even possible that all of them could be right.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On August 12 2012 21:50 Aunvilgod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2012 09:18 ArcticRaven wrote:On August 12 2012 05:37 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 12 2012 04:54 IronManSC wrote:
I feel like this was more of a aesthetic contest electras map certainly has the very best aesthetics, but the runner up is not as great imo. Additionally, the actual gameplay is pretty much impossible to test. All of these maps COULD be the best map ever made but we don´t know. They say they tested it with high masters. High EU Masters =|= highest level. You can´t compare EU high master Terrans to GSL Terrans, it is totally different. Even outside of Korea there are hardly any Terrans able to keep up.
What are you trying to suggest? That we don't play any games on them because we suck?
These maps are unlikely to be used in any serious competitive tournament, at least, not without some further revisions. The decisions about whether maps were fun or not (or balanced or not) don't have any serious ramifications outside of deciding winners for this contest. And really, I'm okay with having masters level players give it the thumbs up or not for the purposes of the competition. As I've tried to stress throughout, if I could achieve some level of learning with this contest then it would be a success in my book - anything else is a bonus. If this were a tournament trying to find the next ladder map no doubt we'd call in an appropriate skill level of players to help make that decision.
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would you guyz be doing another proam but with the none winners ? i feel like some of them really felt they needed to learn something x
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is there a thread for fissure? just curious how you ffe on that map
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On August 12 2012 22:10 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2012 21:50 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 12 2012 09:18 ArcticRaven wrote:On August 12 2012 05:37 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 12 2012 04:54 IronManSC wrote:
I feel like this was more of a aesthetic contest electras map certainly has the very best aesthetics, but the runner up is not as great imo. Additionally, the actual gameplay is pretty much impossible to test. All of these maps COULD be the best map ever made but we don´t know. They say they tested it with high masters. High EU Masters =|= highest level. You can´t compare EU high master Terrans to GSL Terrans, it is totally different. Even outside of Korea there are hardly any Terrans able to keep up. What are you trying to suggest? That we don't play any games on them because we suck? These maps are unlikely to be used in any serious competitive tournament, at least, not without some further revisions. The decisions about whether maps were fun or not (or balanced or not) don't have any serious ramifications outside of deciding winners for this contest. And really, I'm okay with having masters level players give it the thumbs up or not for the purposes of the competition. As I've tried to stress throughout, if I could achieve some level of learning with this contest then it would be a success in my book - anything else is a bonus. If this were a tournament trying to find the next ladder map no doubt we'd call in an appropriate skill level of players to help make that decision.
I don´t want to criticize anything. Its not like I have a better idea myself. I was just my random thoughts thrown out there.
Here is the original thread for Fissure:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351234
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On August 13 2012 02:34 Aunvilgod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2012 22:10 Plexa wrote:On August 12 2012 21:50 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 12 2012 09:18 ArcticRaven wrote:On August 12 2012 05:37 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 12 2012 04:54 IronManSC wrote:
I feel like this was more of a aesthetic contest electras map certainly has the very best aesthetics, but the runner up is not as great imo. Additionally, the actual gameplay is pretty much impossible to test. All of these maps COULD be the best map ever made but we don´t know. They say they tested it with high masters. High EU Masters =|= highest level. You can´t compare EU high master Terrans to GSL Terrans, it is totally different. Even outside of Korea there are hardly any Terrans able to keep up. What are you trying to suggest? That we don't play any games on them because we suck? These maps are unlikely to be used in any serious competitive tournament, at least, not without some further revisions. The decisions about whether maps were fun or not (or balanced or not) don't have any serious ramifications outside of deciding winners for this contest. And really, I'm okay with having masters level players give it the thumbs up or not for the purposes of the competition. As I've tried to stress throughout, if I could achieve some level of learning with this contest then it would be a success in my book - anything else is a bonus. If this were a tournament trying to find the next ladder map no doubt we'd call in an appropriate skill level of players to help make that decision. I don´t want to criticize anything. Its not like I have a better idea myself. I was just my random thoughts thrown out there. Here is the original thread for Fissure: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351234
Pretty sure you basically put a pylon then a forge, gate, and cyber (or pylon+zealot) to wall it between the ramp and the highground pod.
Also you don't need the absolute highest level to figure out if a map has good gameplay. I think most can be theorycrafted for lack of a better word, by using just general principles. Just look at the features and figure out what strategies, army movement, playstyles, etc. it encourages. Balance is the only thing that is left to the highest level of play.
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Hey this finished... lets see:
[x]Complaining that the winning map is undeserving
[x]Complaining that the judges are unqualified
[x]Complaining that the aesthetics are all that was judged
lol.
Grats to etcetera, that map was in my top 5 originally.
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On August 14 2012 07:06 iGrok wrote:
Hey this finished... lets see:
[x]Complaining that the winning map is undeserving
[x]Complaining that the judges are unqualified
[x]Complaining that the aesthetics are all that was judged
lol.
Grats to etcetera, that map was in my top 5 originally.
It's funny because the prettiest map didn't even place.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/shiroiusagi/misc/mapofthemonth_proam.jpg)
