On September 12 2012 08:16 InsidiA wrote: Incontrol: Bad map Ret: yea Sheth: I agree.
seem to be saying its impossible for zerg. :|
People don't seem to like maps where it isn't get 3 bases and rush to hive maps.
That's why I really like the idea of mineral onlys. It forces a longer midgame and zerg/protoss benefit from mineral onlys as thirds just as much as Terrans do as lings/hatcheries and gateways/zealots are all mineral base.
These stats say the opposite to what they think:
TvZ: 5-6 (45.5%) ZvP: 4-5 (44.4%)
It's pretty balanced from the stats he gave a few months back. ^^
On September 12 2012 08:16 InsidiA wrote: Incontrol: Bad map Ret: yea Sheth: I agree.
seem to be saying its impossible for zerg. :|
Zergs were saying the same exact thing about Ohana when it first debuted. *takes one look* "Map sucks!"
3 months later.
The map is a staple of tournament play.
I don't take any of those first hand impressions too seriously. If the map is bad, we'll know after games have been played on it.
So is Tal'Darim, it's still a bad map.
Why? looking at this map makes it look very interesting. The third isn't super easy to hold, it's defendable but it isn't safe straight away and the fourth depends on which way you push rather than it being right next to your third. I can't wait to see this map in some big tournaments <3
I know it is not much, but a few of weeks ago I added this map to my weekly cup (no prize money and only Israeli players), and while at first people didn't want to play on an unknown map, after a couple of weeks while the map being on the cup people seem to really like the map and I have seen and casted some great games on it So just wanted to say good work
On September 13 2012 09:40 moskonia wrote: I know it is not much, but a few of weeks ago I added this map to my weekly cup (no prize money and only Israeli players), and while at first people didn't want to play on an unknown map, after a couple of weeks while the map being on the cup people seem to really like the map and I have seen and casted some great games on it So just wanted to say good work
On September 13 2012 09:40 moskonia wrote: I know it is not much, but a few of weeks ago I added this map to my weekly cup (no prize money and only Israeli players), and while at first people didn't want to play on an unknown map, after a couple of weeks while the map being on the cup people seem to really like the map and I have seen and casted some great games on it So just wanted to say good work
Awesome! That's much appreciated. Do you have any vods/videos I can check out some of the games?
On September 13 2012 09:40 moskonia wrote: I know it is not much, but a few of weeks ago I added this map to my weekly cup (no prize money and only Israeli players), and while at first people didn't want to play on an unknown map, after a couple of weeks while the map being on the cup people seem to really like the map and I have seen and casted some great games on it So just wanted to say good work
Awesome! That's much appreciated. Do you have any vods/videos I can check out some of the games?
I have, but they are in a rather low quality (damn you bad computer / internet connection) and in Hebrew so you wont understand anything :/
On September 13 2012 09:40 moskonia wrote: I know it is not much, but a few of weeks ago I added this map to my weekly cup (no prize money and only Israeli players), and while at first people didn't want to play on an unknown map, after a couple of weeks while the map being on the cup people seem to really like the map and I have seen and casted some great games on it So just wanted to say good work
Awesome! That's much appreciated. Do you have any vods/videos I can check out some of the games?
I have, but they are in a rather low quality (damn you bad computer / internet connection) and in Hebrew so you wont understand anything :/
Okay okay, don't hate me but man, I freaking hate Khaydaria. I think it's a complete rip off of Antiga and it plays almost the exact same as it. Getting main/nat is fairly easy. Grabbing the 3rd is a little more difficult but overall it's not the hardest 3rd to take in the world. Problem is, the 4ths are just at bad if not worse then antiga. Sure, they are a little more far apart from each other but seriously they are half bases that have an extremely close rush distance to each other, even in cross positions there is no way a zerg is going to hold it unless they are that far ahead.
I also think the whole elevator strat from the 1/2 base 4th into the main is pretty much bullshit for TvX. The fact that you can put tanks/hellions/whatever on the low ground and fairy up marines and pretty much pressure 1/3 of the main base plus the main base ramp is ridiculous. I know I bitched to you about this on Skype before and you shrugged it off saying it doesn't matter.
The little bridges you added in between the 4th bases doesn't make any sense because it only gives a way for terran and protoss to be more aggressive when they are attacking into you, yet the 4th bases are already so close as they are why do you need to give benefits to protoss/terran even more. Flanking doesn't matter on those because tanks/ff/collosus/marines will just own just about anything that tries to squeeze thru those small bridges.
Sorry for the hate but man, I just dislike this map and I don't see why so many people think it's another amazing map made by Ironman. ESV has many other better 4player maps and it's crazy that IPL picked up this.
ps. I don't play zerg so this isn't zerg QQ. I also think Ohana is a great map, so it's nothing against you, Ironman.
I know IronMan said he had quit, but in case he still checks up the forum, or to simply let the map making community that some of the maps not on the GSL or ladder don't die out, I wanna say that a few weeks ago an Israeli online tournement with pretty decent prizes (700$ total prize pool) picked up Khaydaria as one of the maps in its map pool and is used regularly
I hope to try and help get more maps from this forum to get playtime, but even one or two non-ladder maps are cool to see become a standard in Israeli tournaments, hopefully other local tournaments use new maps, since as a small tournament you can take risks more easily.
Well it is also one of the random intro maps for the Ritmix RSL tournement. So certain a map that gets attention beyond the average non-ladder map that is for sure. Well deserved because it is quite an impressive one too.
I have been putting some recent thought into revamping the layout of this map in terms of cliff usage. I know I have been gone for a handful of months, but lately i've thought about returning to map-making, and even if I don't, I still may possess the availability to re-work only Khaydaria to a more playable stance; for the sake of SC2. I don't know when i'll be done with this project, but I may also go live when I work on it (I may be rusty with the tools though)... just wanted to let everyone know.
On February 13 2013 15:53 IronManSC wrote: I have been putting some recent thought into revamping the layout of this map in terms of cliff usage. I know I have been gone for a handful of months, but lately i've thought about returning to map-making, and even if I don't, I still may possess the availability to re-work only Khaydaria to a more playable stance; for the sake of SC2. I don't know when i'll be done with this project, but I may also go live when I work on it (I may be rusty with the tools though)... just wanted to let everyone know.
That's great to hear! Cant wait to see the update.
Any chance you could switch the resource values of the 3rds and 4ths? Right now the 3rds are kind of boring, they're very close and once you secure it, defending your 3 bases requires basically no army movement or map awareness. With the 3rds as a 6m1hyg base players will be encouraged to take a faster 4th, which spreads them out and also emphasizes the importance of the high ground pods.
On February 13 2013 17:32 -NegativeZero- wrote: Any chance you could switch the resource values of the 3rds and 4ths? Right now the 3rds are kind of boring, they're very close and once you secure it, defending your 3 bases requires basically no army movement or map awareness. With the 3rds as a 6m1hyg base players will be encouraged to take a faster 4th, which spreads them out and also emphasizes the importance of the high ground pods.
If we look at map history through having reduced expansions as the only avaliable thirds give nothing but trouple. How many versions of terminus existed again? I agree that the thirds might be a little too safe, but there are other ways to handle that.
On February 13 2013 17:32 -NegativeZero- wrote: Any chance you could switch the resource values of the 3rds and 4ths? Right now the 3rds are kind of boring, they're very close and once you secure it, defending your 3 bases requires basically no army movement or map awareness. With the 3rds as a 6m1hyg base players will be encouraged to take a faster 4th, which spreads them out and also emphasizes the importance of the high ground pods.
If we look at map history through having reduced expansions as the only avaliable thirds give nothing but trouple. How many versions of terminus existed again? I agree that the thirds might be a little too safe, but there are other ways to handle that.
The problem isn't that the thirds are safe - if anything they're quite open and easy to attack. It is the aforementioned lack of army movement - it's impossible to catch a player out of position by ground. These two factors combined will make attacks at the 3rd come down to just mashing armies into each other, without any element of positioning, map awareness, etc. The best solution would probably be to move the 3rd farther but make it easier to hold (reduce the openness), but there isn't really any room to do that on this map, so in my opinion the 6m1hyg 3rd would be the next best option.
And I thought there were only 2 tournament versions of Terminus, the first was changed only because the 3rd was literally free with no extra attack paths. I'm not sure if a more typically positioned 6m1hyg 3rd has ever been tested in any high-level tournament.
EPT
So just wanted to say good work 
